Va-Va Voom, speeding into Old Trafford : the Anthony Martial thread

Discussion in 'Manchester United' started by Ashur, Aug 31, 2015.

  1. sdotsom

    sdotsom Member+

    Manchester United
    Mar 27, 2005
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Jose says he will start against Wigan, and that he's challenging him to keep his place vs Hull the game after.
     
  2. gatekeeper2

    gatekeeper2 Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Perhaps I haven't watched enough of Zaha, but I would never place Zaha anywhere the caliber of dribbler as Messi or Giggs or even Rooney a decade ago. (Assume you're not trolling me... :)).

    Dribblers with end product are indeed rare. My best theory is that developing that level of dribbling skill is seen as selfish, or at least detrimental to team play, and youth coaches understandably want to make their name by team success, not developing great dribblers. There are millions of young footballers out there playing on dirt who develop dribbling skills while the kids who have the wherewithal to go to the academies and who have a more likely path to a professional career are taught passing skills. Just a theory, probably nothing to it. Whatever the true explanation, it's no doubt true dribblers with end product are extremely rare and we would be wise not to fixate too much on finding one.
     
  3. Teso Dos Bichos

    Teso Dos Bichos Red Card

    Sep 2, 2004
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  4. MizzouMUFC

    MizzouMUFC Member+

    Apr 10, 2010
    Places
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    Zaha is MILES better as a dribbler than Rooney ever was. That's a ridiculous comparison.

    I'd also argue Zaha is a better pure dribbler than Messi. Messi is great at making shifting, zig-zagging runs through crowds. Zaha is great at squaring a defender up and beating him with flair (step-overs, roll-overs, etc.).
     
  5. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Pretty clear what Jose is trying to do with Martial at this point. He obviously values him but just as was the case for the likes of Miki and Shaw, he's being tough with him because he knows he's worth the effort and should he fully get him on board, he'll be a tremendous asset to the team. He wouldn't be so vocal about him and take such a hard line if he didn't really care (see Memphis for instance).
    The ball is now in Martial's side of the court. Let's see how he responds Sunday.
     
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  6. Sofabloke

    Sofabloke Member+

    Dec 24, 2003
    Mu
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
  7. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #432 Ashur, Feb 6, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2017
    Martial has publicly refuted any rumor of a fallout with Mourinho. He claimed to not listen to the media and none of what was published was true. Interesting...
     
  8. Rooney20

    Rooney20 Member+

    Jan 8, 2007
    New York
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here is the link to the tweet @Ashur was talking about. Still frustrating to see him on the bench after his display against Wigan.

     
  9. Ruud v.Nistelrooy 10

    Staff Member

    Jamaica
    Jun 4, 2006
    Antilla
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Jamaica
  10. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It was/is frustrating to not see Martial playing and his omission from the starting lineup had me worried for his long term future and had me thinking that he would suffer the same fate as KDB, Salah or Cuadrado recently at Chelsea (Shaw is another I'm getting concerned about as well).
    After reflecting on it some more hwever, don't think that either are necessarily out of the woods just yet, but I'm hopeful that this is more a repeat of the Miki situation and that their time will come.
    As it's been mentioned many times, there are potentially plenty games coming up and perhaps this is just Jose managing the squad and holding them back for the time being. Jose's way of thinking can be very difficult to understand as, on the face of it at least, it can appear to be all over the place and does not necessarily follow a set logic (to us fans anyway). But whatever his reasons were to hold Miki back earlier in the season, appear to have been justified and hopefully the same will apply to Martal and/or Shaw and they'll be the better for it.
    Great to see Martial come out with that tweet and I guess we'll have to see where it goes from there.
     
  11. MizzouMUFC

    MizzouMUFC Member+

    Apr 10, 2010
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    I'd be more worried about Shaw than Martial. Jose is clearly trying to motivate Martial like he did with Miki early in the season. It's obvious that he sees potential and is trying to get him to step his game up.

    Shaw on the other hand, Jose mentions in passing and doesn't seem concerned about giving him minutes or trying to get him to fulfill his potential.
     
  12. Teso Dos Bichos

    Teso Dos Bichos Red Card

    Sep 2, 2004
    Purged by RvN
    Flip Martial to Paris.
     
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  13. MizzouMUFC

    MizzouMUFC Member+

    Apr 10, 2010
    Places
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    Can we flip you to another board?

    You're not performing up to the standards we're used to and therefore we've decided to move on.
     
  14. Teso Dos Bichos

    Teso Dos Bichos Red Card

    Sep 2, 2004
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    Why bother with him and his agent's shit?
     
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  15. Karloski

    Karloski Member+

    Oct 26, 2006
    England
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    People who bring up Miki as a way to show how Mourinho did well in getting the best out of a player by leaving him out for an extended time, have no evidence. For all we know, he would have performed a lot sooner if given trust and a run...we will never know. It's possible Mourinho actually cost us points by not playing one of our better players...and is doing the same again.
     
  16. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The comparison with Miki is more about the fact that he ultimately wanted the player to remain at the club (despite the claims in some quarters that he was going to loan or sell him in January), more than the definite knowledge that he's holding them back because he does not think the player ready.
    Something btw, with Mikiwe will never know what the absolute truth is one way or the other at this juncture, but the point remains that Miki is doing well now and Jose actually considers him an important and reliable piece of the team. That is the hope that is entertained re Martial eventually as well...
     
  17. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Has Martial finally turned a corner this week? Jose at the very least, seems very happy with him at the moment. He complimented him on his last 2 week of his work, the way he faced it by putting in hard work, with more concentration and determination.
    And that's why he gave him this gift of a start and he answered in the best way. It was very obvious when he was subbed off, the embrace between the 2 was genuine. And the reaction of the crowd was great as well.
    As previously mentioned, Martial and his talent are needed pretty bad and he obviously seem to be forming a nice understanding with Miki as well, which is very nice to see as well. Fingers crossed, he keeps that momentum going now.
     
  18. Karloski

    Karloski Member+

    Oct 26, 2006
    England
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    He played the same against Wigan and was dropped for the next game.

    I said it when he left Miki out 5 months ago and I'll say it again. Miki and Martial are top class players....Mourinho is not making them into great players by leaving them out. Give them a run and confidence and they will perform. I do like the job Mourinho has done for us up to now...but he may have cost us a few points by leaving our better players out at spells...to prove some unnecessary point.
     
  19. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #444 Ashur, Feb 11, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2017
    I definitely agree that Jose is not making them better players from a technical point of view, but for both it appears that his gripe was elsewhere. We don't know exactly for sure what was his beef with, if it was legit and truth is, we'll probably never know (at least not for a while).
    That being said, right or wrong, Miki is turning into one of the top performers on the team. If a month down the line, the same applies for Martial, who am I to argue with his methods? There's obviously something he thought was lacking from both players and judging by his comments above and knowing what type of manager he is and what he expects, they either were too soft mentally and/or they didn't work hard enough.
    Either way, it's clear that he values both players and has reached a point where he's happy with them. Hopefully, it's the same that applies to Shaw as well. We'll find out I suppose.
     
  20. Karloski

    Karloski Member+

    Oct 26, 2006
    England
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Okay, we dont know what happens behind the scenes, and I will admit that Martial looked a little bit sulky in the first part of the season. But listening to Miki talk, I just don't see how Mourinho's treatment of him was ever right. Then when Martial said all the right things and performed against Wigan...I don't see how you leave him out (and not even sub him in) in the following games when we really need a goal. There seems to be some pettiness there on Mourinho's side....and them playing really well now, and for the rest of the season proves nothing either way, because for all we know...their treatment could have cost us many points despite our finishing position.
     
  21. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's kind of the point: either theory could be correct on it's own or it could be a mixture of both. And if yours is valid, there's no doubt that it was stupid from Jose as it definitely cost the team points. If, it wasn't the case and as I believe they lacked something from Jose's standpoint at some point and he was able to get it out of them, then "a salut", we're all the better for it.
    As I said though, until someone spills the beans, we'll never know 100% one way or another what the deal was. But happy that in both cases, everything appears to be fine now and that's what really matters...
     
  22. Teso Dos Bichos

    Teso Dos Bichos Red Card

    Sep 2, 2004
    Purged by RvN
    We are due Monaco another €10m when he scores next.
     
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  23. gatekeeper2

    gatekeeper2 Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Which is about the equivalent of the cost of a steak dinner for two at Morton's for you and me.

    In other words, not a significant concern for United.
     
  24. Teso Dos Bichos

    Teso Dos Bichos Red Card

    Sep 2, 2004
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    #449 Teso Dos Bichos, Feb 12, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2017
    Pity he has not even played as €10m player this season.

    Besides I only ever eat Wagyu.
     
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  25. JamesA

    JamesA Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    Victoria
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Alt-right nazi and a hipster? :eek::sick:
     
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