PBP: USWNT WWC '11 Final Roster

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by kool-aide, May 9, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Don't confuse parity for quality.

    The Frauen Bundesliga does more than stock pile talent. It's the breeding ground for some of the best teams and players Europe has produced.

    WPS is the top pro league in the world based on the illusion parity, but it has different goals for it's success.

    Grings was on the Ballon d'Or shortlist for the 09 season, not '07. Marta won with Grings not even in the top three :confused:. When you compare what the players did that year, there's no comparison.

    You can name genuinely super talented girls for such awards, but in less they have the platform to be seen it won't count for anything.
     
  2. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Alright so you're saying Grings may have deserved player of year for 2009 over Marta because Marta didn't have much to do that year (no WC, no Olys, no Euros, no European Cup).

    So what? How does that make Grings the level of impact player Marta is when Marta is playing? That's what we're talking about isn't it? Not the Player of the Year award.
     
  3. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Yes, Marta won one uefa women's cup playing for the once mighty Umea. That's not so impressive when you look at the stats of the semi pro German teams in the same period Marta was still playing in Europe. A Marta inspired Umea even lost to a quadruple winning, yet not even semi pro Arsenal team. Arsenal even played both legs of the final missing Kelly Smith.

    Grings missed a WWC due to stupid issues outside of her talent. No German player seems to recognise the Olympics in the way they do the WWC, so you could forget that too. Leading a German side to Euro championships success, while going through a serious rebuilding process is her biggest NT achievement. I didn't see much, but her level of that play that year was excellent.

    Until WPS, what serious visible tool was there to assess, or measure, the ability or talent of any U.S. players? Random friendly international tournaments in between WC's and Olympics. I can give stats, but football isn't a stats game. I can tell you what a player achieved, but it's all very subjective if you don't know the standard of play involved.

    I don't think its fair or right to judge players on whether they play in the states or not, mixed with what they produce over a few weeks every 3 or 4 years.
     
  4. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006

    yeah. Christine doesn't have to play all those tough COMNEBOL teams in qualifiers like the Brazilians do...:rolleyes:

    Here was one of those not-so-meaningless friendlies against an inconsequential team.It was against Marta in a Brazilian tournament on Brazilian soil so they didn't have to get on a plane.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qDNGkyKny0"]YouTube - ‪Golazo de Christine Sinclair en Brasil vs Canada‬‏[/ame]


    I can provide a translation of
    if you'd like, along with the rest of the translation.

    I can tell you that blathering didn't include

    "too bad she can't Dribble or run"

    it did include something like "There isn't anybody else in the world that can play that game that like number 12"

    ,and she didn't get outrun to the corner.

    you can make an argument that Marta is the best player, but if you want to sound credible in making your point, pick another subject besides Sinclair's deficiencies in dribbling, running, OR shooting. you won't win that one. Maybe talk about how many more World Cups Marta has won?


    Its not that I'm a Portland fan, trying to make Marta look good by putting down Sinclair just sounds silly. Pick another player.
     
  5. Cville K C

    Cville K C Member

    Nov 3, 2008
    Collinsville, IL
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know if I've ever made a comment about Mitts being too slow, ever. So it must be someone else's argument.

    But since we're talking about it, Mitts was beaten down the field by Ocampo (who could never be confused with being a speedburner). Ocampo started out in a trot after the turnover waiting to see where the ball was going to be played. Ocampo was at least two full yards behind Mitts near midfield and had passed her within the first 20 yards after midfield. The ball was played outside, so Ocampo had to turn to the outside and took time collecting the ball before she made her move on Mitts.

    I truly admire Mitts' hustle to get from end-to-end (which is her job after all), but that's not the point.
     
  6. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member+

    Jul 6, 2000
    please read the original statement before you make premature posts.



    did you guys read before you posted?

    here's the original statement.

    i asked for names, and grings, smith, sinclair and solo were named. i never said that these were not great players. but when i compare them to marta they are all found wanting.

    grings and smith are wanting on the athletic side.

    sinclair is not the dribbler that marta is. (clivew, i never said she could not dribble). sinclair is also not as quick (which is separate from speed) as marta is.

    and solo is a great gk, but she is not at marta's level as a field player.

    imo.

    i don't even think that any of this is debatable.

    clearly, i was wrong.
     
  7. philafan

    philafan Member

    Mar 20, 2010
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not suggesting you are lying but I'm the kind of person who needs to see and hear things for myself. And I think there is zero chance that those particular two players would knowingly disparage the 1999 team, who were their idols and friends. Judging from the response you received, it seems that's not what they were trying to do. Couldn't they have just spoken awkwardly or maybe you missed the context of what they said?
     
  8. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006



    Do you read what you post? Don't rewrite things and think we can't look them up....


    You did NOT say Sinclair is not the dribbler that Marta is. Here is your post:


    Other than my highlighting it, that is your typing.


    LINK TO IT . You used the words. CLEAR DEFICIT!!!!!


    that sounds like she has drool coming out of the corner of her mouth, not that Marta is a bit better.


    The word comes from Latin, deficit "it is lacking" a form of the verb defecere.

    the dictionary defines it in Physical terms as a technical failing.


    Sinclair has no technical failing. Not in Dribbling, running, shooting, passing, or defending. She is not slow or not quick. I can probably show you a clip of her blowing by anybody you pick, And if you ask any defender in the world, they will tell you the same. Maybe somebody though it was safe to let her go to her left in that clip I posted, but I bet Brazil is rethinking that. She has the complete package, as those Spanish guys were going on about.


    And she doesn't have to be quicker than Marta, just than the defenders, and she is.

    Remember that Marta had a worse shooting record in the Olympic Final than AROD ( more misses, no goals for either, though AROD might have been credited an assist). Until Marta wins something, she is just another great player, no where near the best, regardless how many foundation garments get lost when she blasts past defenders.


    It's the same as with Messi. He's the most amazing player in the world, but until he gets a Cup or two on the mantle, he's just another great one. He can't even claim to be better than Garrincha or Battistuta.

    If she wants to be Pele or Maradona, Marta has to win one, as does Sinclair. Then she can be crowned the best. Until then it's "why can't she win the big one" for both of them.

    And she will be the first to tell you that. So yeah, clearly your assumption on debatability was wrong.
     
  9. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah it is that you're a Portland fan. It must be. No one's putting down Sinclair here. But comparing Sinclair's international goals to Marta's when Brazil plays so many fewer games is ridiculous. Since you want to keep up the argument why don't you show us the number of games they've played? Me, I think the argument you guys are making borders on the silly.

    And speaking of weak CONMEBOL competition, just how many CONCACAF teams are that tough? Up until this cycle I can think of one that Canada faces.
     
  10. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And about Sinclair on the dribble. She's okay but that's not a key strength of hers if you're talking about the ability to take on a defender 1v1 or 1 v2. C'mon, she's not someone who beats a defender 1v1 regularly on her own. Unless it's off a pass, unless it's off that first touch or where the defender is scrambling back to get position. But 1v1 where the defender is back and set and the attacker has no advantage? That's something Marta can do; Sinclair not so often.

    Sinclair's one of the very best players in the world but Marta is on another level. Only at BigSoccer would we be arguing this... (not that that will ever stop us) :)
     
  11. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And anyhoo, wasn't the context of all this the decline of talent/technical ability in the US? So this Marta talk looks even sillier - what, we don't have to worry about comparing our talent to Marta, or any Brazilian for that matter, because they "haven't won anything?

    Great, so we need only compare ourselves to Germany?

    What a mess some of you guys are making of this thread! Aargh!
     
  12. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    Hahaha.

    Deep breath. The thread was about the final US world Cup roster before you and luvdagame decided we all have to toe the line on Marta....
     
  13. Roland25

    Roland25 Member

    Sep 27, 2007
    Germany / Aachen
    A good point! I think Marta needs to win something with team Brazil at the first place before even discussing about her being the best woman player of all time.

    She is certainly great but at the moment a little overrated by FIFA. She did not deserve her last two awards as the play of the year, especially the 2009 one (Grings was not even among the three!!:confused:)

    I loved Marta's performances in WC 2007 and Olympic 2008 but she missed crucial chances in both finals. For example Prinz had only one in final 2007 and made it. May be she would be named the best woman player of all time in future if she wins 2011 WC for example, but at the moment I rank her overall below Hamm or Prinz.
     
  14. BrooklynSoccer

    BrooklynSoccer Member+

    Jan 22, 2008
    Since this forum has become about anything i'd like to point out this interesting quote from Fifa.com homepage re: Germany and Silvia:

    In the second-to-last of six training camps, coach Silvia Neid is on the lookout for her "golden formation", as she recently confirmed. "The job now is to decide who’ll play in the Opening Match against Canada, practise our set-piece routines, and fine-tune our attacking play,” Neid explained.

    While Pia assigned her starting lineup over a year ago and also assigned the only formation they will play about 3.7 years ago, Silvia is still working with the best talent she has to make sure everyone plays at their best, as a team.
     
  15. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought Pia still, in the Mexico game, was doing exactly what you're saying Silvia is doing. There's been massive discussion on this thread about the ongoing experimentation in the back line, with debate about whether there's been too much experimenting. LeP was at left back a year ago?

    By the way, according to Stephanie Cox's blog post to the University of Portland's website, here's part of her expectation for US WNT training in the upcoming period:

    "[W]e will probably be adding more game situational aspects to our practice. Like working on defensive set pieces so we are comfortable and confident with them, and scrimmaging being a goal up or a goal down. .... [O]ur main goal will be to tidy up on the small things so that we are sharp headed into our group games."

    This sounds a lot like Silvia's "practice our set-piece routines, and fine-tune our attacking play."
     
  16. BrooklynSoccer

    BrooklynSoccer Member+

    Jan 22, 2008
    no, she wasn't.
    she's changed formation with this team about 4 times in 3.7 years. she has known for months who will be playing vs. NK and who will be starting - god willing they are able to run. She stated MONTHS ago she wanted amy starting and would find a way to put that square in the hole.

    I wouldn't try to make a point based on a coach trying to convert a 28 year old slowish center back with poor passing skills into a left back in the coming months before of a long, hard WC.

    As stated by Julie, Brandi and everyone else - She will not change formations even when it's best suited for the team I.E. Not changing to a 4-3-3 until the 86th minute of the WC qualifiers vs Mexico and being down 2-1. It's well documented proven.

    No, Pia does not have the flexibility, foresight, tactical ability, confidence of Silvia.


    fyi - 5 of Germany's starters are 22 and under.
     
  17. Cville K C

    Cville K C Member

    Nov 3, 2008
    Collinsville, IL
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Interestingly, long-time Mexican veteran (and former Notre Dame star) Monica Gonzalez was left off the Mexican team, as was Tania Morales, who had played in all but three matches for Mexico over the past year.

    http://www.femexfut.org.mx/portalv2/aspx/WEB_DetalleNoticia.aspx?pnIDNtca=33008

    A little off topic, but how many teams have been officially announced their roster now?

    I've seen the USA, Germany, France, Mexico, Australia, Japan, New Zealand, and a 19-player roster for Norway (with two to be added). Brazil, last I saw, was narrowed to 24 or 25. Nigeria has been training in Europe, but I haven't found a final roster for them yet. England announces Friday. Has anybody seen any other official rosters?
     
  18. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member+

    Jul 6, 2000
    only if you isolate the statement.

    only if you take it out of the context of what i was replying to.

    only if you don't look at what the whole discussion was about.

    it's easy to make anyone's post sound different to what was intended when you do that.

    i repeat.

    i was replying to a statement COMPARING other players to marta's greatness.

    my reply, in context, had to do with the fact that, IN COMPARISON, each of the players named lacked something.
     
  19. usa3por2ft

    usa3por2ft Member

    Oct 15, 2002
    in exile
    Club:
    Millwall FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's a thread in the Women's World Cup subforum of the Women's International forum with team roster news.

    http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1730417

    In addition to those you listed, Sweden and Colombia have also announced their rosters.
     
  20. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member+

    Jul 6, 2000
    like this?

    so?

    as philafan says, i'm not sure it's so much different than what pia is doing.

    but even if it is: different approach - even the one i prefer - doesn't necessarily mean better approach.
     
  21. Bonnie Lass

    Bonnie Lass Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 20, 2000
    Up top
    Club:
    Olympique Lyonnais
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    I'm pretty sure I'm only keeping this thread open at this point to see just how far off topic it can go ...
     
  22. SCCL

    SCCL Member

    Oct 31, 2001
    Wow. Been reading all of this, and my eyes are glazing over. And, this is the only thing I've wanted to respond to! Go figure.

    Anyway -- re Marta. She IS the best female player we've seen. The good thing for all ther other teams, i.e. Germany and the U.S., is that it is still a TEAM SPORT! And teams are typically made up of, hopefully, one or two outstanding players, and the rest very good role players. And Brazil is still lacking in the very good role players area. Marta can't do it alone and she knows it. Team mentality is important and I think Germany and the U.S. have a leg up, so to speak, in that area. I think the U.S. is going to do better than most of the naysayers think.
     
  23. exref

    exref Member

    Aug 1, 2009
    Louisville, KY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was at that match, too. I remember how many times we crossed the ball to Silke - over and over again - we couldn't change much of anything in our attack when we certainly needed to in order to be effective. I also remember how they did become stronger and stronger throughout the 2nd half. We had no answer for Garefrekes.

    I have not seen our current team be able to put a plan into motion effectively either - whether it be offense or defense. Maybe the psyche edge will carry us through. Cumbayyah.
     
  24. BrooklynSoccer

    BrooklynSoccer Member+

    Jan 22, 2008
    Silvia said last week she is still working on the right FORMATION for the world cup. PIA HAS SAID FOR YEARS NOW SHE IS USING A 4-4-2.

    Got it? big difference here.
     
  25. dianamo-superstriker

    Sep 30, 2007
    California
    Mark Young Blog on ESPN

    http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/blog/_/name/young_mark/id/6653563/use-wambach-bench

     

Share This Page