USWNT v New Zealand, May 16. Pre/pbp/post

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by Semblance17, May 12, 2019.

  1. jackdoggy

    jackdoggy Member

    May 16, 2014
    Big D
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Last spreadsheet I promise - - getting nostalgic - 2015 WWC:

    2015.png
    I'd forgotten that Christen started the first two.
     
  2. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member+

    Jul 6, 2000
    sonnett came in for lavelle last game, no?

    as would i.

    i’m sure they’re practicing defense/offense in the 18 with her in camp. she might be crucial at the end of some games.
     
  3. jnielsen

    jnielsen Member

    May 12, 2012
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    As would I. Is Ellis keeping her secret weapon under wraps?
     
  4. Kevin625

    Kevin625 Member

    Jan 4, 2016
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Ellis did the same thing in CONCACAF OlyQ in Feb 2016. She started the regulars in 2 of the 3 group stage games and played almost the entire B Team against Puerto Rico (ranked 108th in the world at the time).

    Ellis used the same starting lineup for the first two games. Against Puerto Rico, 10 of those 11 starters didn't start against Puerto Rico, which is the max possible with a 20-player roster. Dunn was the only starter that started vs Puerto Rico and played a different position. She played RB in the first two games and CF against Puerto Rico. Of course, that's also the game she tied the team record by scoring 5 goals. I believe Mewis also got her first NT goal in that game.

    2016ogStarters.png
     
  5. Kevin625

    Kevin625 Member

    Jan 4, 2016
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    With Sweden being the 3rd game, I'm not sure you can risk starting your B Team in the 2nd game against Chile and I'm assuming she'll start her #1 lineup in the first game against Thailand.

    I think the best thing to do would be to...
    1. Rotate starters in the midfield in the first two games since you have 4 players in pretty good form right now (Ertz, Lavelle, Horan, Mewis).
    2. Rest KO every game if we get an early 2-3 goal lead or sub her at 60'.
    3. Play our B-team (or part of it) vs Sweden if we are already through (unless France isn't going to win Group A).
    As for what Ellis will do, I have no clue, but I'm hoping it's not a head-scratcher like the 2016 OG.
     
  6. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I agree. Why not start your best players the first two games, get 6 point and qualification for the round of 16, and then play the B team versus Sweden? What is the worse that could happen, we avoid France in the quarterfinal? I'd much rather play Germany or China than France in the quarters.
     
    Namdynamo and Kevin625 repped this.
  7. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    Trouble with that is, what if you play your starters in the first two games and get 4 points, and Chile gets 5 for three games?
     
  8. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member+

    Jul 6, 2000
    the ref saw that dunn had eyes on the ball and didn’t target the player. no yellow was reasonable.
     
    jnielsen, MiLLeNNiuM and taosjohn repped this.
  9. Kevin625

    Kevin625 Member

    Jan 4, 2016
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    That's why Patrick said "get 6 points" and I said "if they're already though".

    If you're not already through, then you obviously can't play your B-team if a loss means you might go home.
     
    Namdynamo, Patrick167 and MiLLeNNiuM repped this.
  10. MiLLeNNiuM

    MiLLeNNiuM Member+

    Aug 28, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    .
    Playing this tactic has had a jinx effect on the men's side, no?
     
  11. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    If you assume you have to play France to win it, I'd rather play France earlier rather than later. Playing France in the semi or Final with the home crowd is going to be more intense than if you get them earlier before the bandwagon gets going.

    If you figure someone else can knock off France for you, then nevermind.
     
    kolabear repped this.
  12. Kevin625

    Kevin625 Member

    Jan 4, 2016
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Anything can happen in knock-out events.

    If we're going to lose to them, I'm sure the players and especially Ellis would rather it be in the Finals and I'd argue that we have just as good or a better chance of beating them in the Finals than in the QF.

    Also, if Ellis loses in the QF, it tarnishes her legacy as well. Yes, she won the WC in 2015 and no one can take that away from her, but many question whether the US won because of her or in spite of her. A loss in the QF means they didn't medal in the OG and WC for the first time ever under her guard.
     
    Namdynamo and Patrick167 repped this.
  13. Kevin625

    Kevin625 Member

    Jan 4, 2016
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    It certainly worked for England in the 2018 World Cup.
     
  14. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    Right-- but then you've gotten no rest for anyone going into the knockout rounds, as a result of your own planning...

    You really kind of have to play less than your best against one of the weaker teams in your group. So in some ways it is better to play the toughest first, hope to beat them, and hope then to coast to the knockouts.
     
  15. jackdoggy

    jackdoggy Member

    May 16, 2014
    Big D
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Man - in a way, that makes soooooooooo much sense to me but that runs contrary to the Greatest Team on the Planets' DNA. It sounds ridiculous to me but give them the choice of
    • Winning the Group and playing Juventus in the Round of 16
    -or-
    • Doing anything that could be perceived as "dumping" and getting an automatic Bye to the Finals
    They would kill to play Ronaldo.
     
  16. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Which, as we learned with an old and injured roster in 2003, is a recipe for hitting the wall and getting blown away by a team that in a one-off would be at worst an even game.

    And your "starting XI" will have accrued all of the cards and be far more likely to have picked up the second yellow card, thereby missing the quarterfinal.
     
    jnielsen repped this.
  17. Kevin625

    Kevin625 Member

    Jan 4, 2016
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Anything less than 6 points against CHI and THA means the SWE game turns into a potential elimination game, and that's a game we could definitely lose no matter what the situation is.

    If your starters aren't guaranteed to get 6 points against CHI and THA, then you're taking a risk by playing less than your best against them.

    Play your best lineups the first 2 games and sub out your starters (especially KO and anyone else carrying nagging injuries) when you get a comfortable lead.

    This is really the ideal group setup. If we play to our potential, we should be able to make some early subs in the CHI and THA game (if we get a big enough lead early) on top of resting everyone vs SWE.
     
    Namdynamo and jnielsen repped this.
  18. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    Cup--> slipslipslipslip <-- lip...
     
  19. MiLLeNNiuM

    MiLLeNNiuM Member+

    Aug 28, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Who was England trying to avoid in the 1st knockout game?
     
  20. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's a great excuse to run into and headbutt a lot of players. No that isn't reasonable. I'll accept it's reasonable to make it a yellow and not a red as the player who went down at least wasn't blindsided but has Dunn in front of her so she has a chance to react. But it isn't her (the player being fouled) responsibility to pull out of the challenge.
     
  21. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    What was it that, in your opinion, made the collision Dunn's responsibility to avoid?
     
  22. Cannons

    Cannons Member+

    May 16, 2005
    My biggest fear is Ellis. Who will she start? If things go bad... can she make timely changes? I think people are overlooking the fact that the last couple of games taught us nothing. Beating up on third rate teams does not prepare us for for the WC. Last time out, Ellis bungled the whole thing and we almost didnt get out of the group stage. The only reason we won is because the situation MADE Ellis change what she was doing and Lloyd lead us to the ultimate championship. I cant remember if it was a key injury or card suspension? All I remember is that it was not anything Ellis did or brilliant tactical changes she devised but rather changes that were forced upon her.

    So four years go by. Has Ellis learned anything? I kind of dont think so. Maybe Im wrong and I hope I am, but I see her making some of the same mistakes leading up the the WC. Mostly with player selection. I think Mewis should start over Horan and I dont think Alex Morgan is always the answer. If we are in a 1/2 field game, Lloyd is the answer. Mewis is faster than Horan and I think a better passer. Can also score from distance which we will need against bunkered teams. Sooo lets see what happens and lets see what Ellis does.
     
    Kevin625 and Patrick167 repped this.
  23. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    We got out of group because Ellis put Abby in for the second half and she promptly came through with one last great header for a 1-0 win over Nigeria. Were you one of those who thought she shouldn't have taken Abby?

    As for the adjustments that yellow card accumulation "forced" on her, there's no special reason other than overpowering Ellis-hate to think those weren't always planned anyway. She took the players, and she used them in such a way that they created problems for teams in knockout games--why wouldn't an unbiased observer think that was to her credit?
     
    FanOfFutbol repped this.
  24. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It was a dangerous play which wound up with a pretty wicked clash of heads? What's hard about that? It's a reckless, dangerous play to go charging back in the direction of another player and jump, not straight up, but in direction of the opposing player.
    You either give a damn about the safety of players or you don't but the rules say you're supposed to. Did you notice Tom Sermanni was perplexed and frustrated at the lack of a card? Does Sermanni strike you as the type of guy who gets easily triggered?
     
  25. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    I kinda got the impression they were each moving to the ball, and was wondering why one had a responsibility that the other didn't...
     

Share This Page