USWNT v England (She Believes), March 4, pre/pbp/post

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by lil_one, Mar 3, 2017.

  1. Dundalk24

    Dundalk24 Member

    Jul 20, 2007
    PA/OH
    There are some positives to take out of this match though. Not least the great debut by Miss Lavelle. Mewis has impressed me as a two way player lately. She dispossessed the opponent frequently and handles pressure well with the ball at her feet. She has improved significantly. Dunn bothered the English on the flank and there's nobody else I would want out wide if I'm a midfielder looking for an outlet.
     
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  2. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    How?

    Good performance in stretches, but the finishing was less than clinical, and the defense collapsed on that last play even with two fresh subs in there. (In fact, it looked like it was their side of the field.)
     
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  3. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Member

    Jul 18, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Is Morgan ok?
     
  4. RUfan

    RUfan Member

    Dec 11, 2004
    NJ
    Club:
    Sky Blue FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I should have written that as "Hope: I would have saved that."
     
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  5. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006

    She looks like she's been playing the last two years, to me.
     
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  6. Dundalk24

    Dundalk24 Member

    Jul 20, 2007
    PA/OH
    I'm actually not bothered too much that they lost. There are glaring areas that need improvement. But on balance I saw more positives in this match than in their "win" a few days ago.
     
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  7. Calci0

    Calci0 Member

    Jun 22, 2013
    NC
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    No doubt their WC run was impressive. But a win against the USWNT kind of seals the deal if you will.
     
  8. Semblance17

    Semblance17 Member+

    United States
    Apr 27, 2013
    Lighthouse Point, FL
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I didn't. And I don't see the need for those quotation marks.

    As imperfect as the game the other night was, it was a win, and there were two main positives for the U.S. compared to this match:
    1) They were able to finish one of the chances they created.
    2) They were able to shut out their opponent.

    Neither of those things can be said of this game. Of course, England performed much better than Germany, but I expected the U.S. to rise to the challenge and once again they fell from it.

    The good play I saw from the U.S. in this match only makes the loss even more frustrating to me. The chronic lack of finishing and the very late conceded goal outweigh the redeeming qualities of this match in my mind. I'm probably oversimplifying things as usual, but to me the most beautiful football in the world doesn't matter if you can't make anything of it. Zero points and zero goals from the night.
     
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  9. hocbz

    hocbz Member

    Feb 15, 2016
    England won against the US b-team. Start Naeher, Brian instead of Horan, Press instead of Morgan, Tobin, put Dunn on the right and Lavelle in Carli's spot? That game is won in the first half IMO. Carli needs to go, it's time.
     
  10. Dundalk24

    Dundalk24 Member

    Jul 20, 2007
    PA/OH
    It sounds like you value winning these matches above all else. Right here and right now I cannot agree with this mentality. If this was 2019 in France then I'd be singing from the same hymn sheet.

    The outcome of a soccer match often comes down to just a bounce here or there. It seems your current analytical gaze goes little further than the scoreboard. Results are the desired end game. Obviously. But this isn't the end game. One play here or there and your whole assessment is flipped? Some mistakes you pay for and some mistakes you get away with but long term success, especially on the biggest of occasions, usually necessitates that at some point you prioritize development over Ws at times. Greg Ryan had a very impressive winning streak and record. Until he didn't.
     
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  11. BlueCrimson

    BlueCrimson Member+

    North Carolina Courage
    United States
    Nov 21, 2012
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Club:
    Sydney FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The sub choices were poor and were a big reason why the US ended up losing.
     
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  12. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    #37 kernel_thai, Mar 4, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2017
    I get Lavelle is a work in progress and Im happy she got capped because she is very technical. But it's fools gold. This is what we got from Tobin Heath for years. Slick is nice but it's goals that win games. The US threw out all four of it's big attackers and Im not sure any of them managed a shot on goal. She isn't in Wisconsin anymore where she needs to do everything by herself. When she looks up anyone in front of her is better than she is...just give them a simple pass.
     
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  13. Dundalk24

    Dundalk24 Member

    Jul 20, 2007
    PA/OH
    Well, yes, finishing is an ongoing problem. No argument there. It hasn't been there in a while. But that is often largely a confidence and psychological question rather than a developmental one at this level. They were terrible at finishing heading into the 2011 WC, then seemed to find something up until the final, when in the first half especially, they couldn't fire a Carli snotrocket into a cistern. But things like midfield, defense, formations, general chemistry, and now GK.... take time, experimentation, and a reasonable degree of patience. None of those things matter if the ball doesn't go into the back of your opponent's net. A cake's not a cake without the icing. But you can't convert without opportunities. Spain's men's team were atrocious finishers two world cups ago but they generated plentiful chances and dominated possession they were able to do enough to offset their lackluster conversion rate. Ideally, of course, you want to be great in all areas.

    There are strikers on this team that have been either adept at finishing on the USWNT in the past or for their club sides. Whether they put it together when it matters or gain the momentum and confidence in the lead up remains to be seen. But a coach can't teach finishing, not at this level.
     
  14. Dundalk24

    Dundalk24 Member

    Jul 20, 2007
    PA/OH
    I actually thought she was more than flashy. I thought she was effective. Not sure she's the answer on corners but it's good that Ellis is looking around though. You can't generate offense if you don't have the ball. She held the ball well under pressure. England is a physical team. She also, along with Mewis, were able to switch the point of attack to go vertical and wrong foot the English defenders on several occasions. Yes, the team was again poor around the box. But I do think you have to give some credit to England here, they have arguably the savviest back line in women's soccer. If the English defense has one Achilles heel it's probably their set piece defending. Unfortunately the USNWT isn't the team to take advantage of that weakness at the moment.

    Maybe in the future, maybe sooner than 2019, fans will be able to point to this match and others in this time frame. They will point out the problems that were never satisfactorily addressed. Point to these results as the tell tale chinks in the armor, later to become gaping flesh wounds. Or maybe...people are being a little bit on the dour side because this match had a crappy end? Experimental line-up be damned?

    Would you rather be outshot 30 to 5 and win? In this type of match I say...No. World Cup or OG I'll take em as we get em. Some general creeping paranoia that we're the New France in terms of finishing but hey at least things can change quickly on that front.
     
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  15. Dundalk24

    Dundalk24 Member

    Jul 20, 2007
    PA/OH
    Long coming on for Mewis was a head scratcher. Mewis was playing well. JJ had several giveaways and some mishit backpasses to Harris so I expected her to head benchside when I saw Allie about to check in. I would have liked Dunn to play 90. She still looked fresh and today, as in past matches against them, she seems to give England fits.
     
  16. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    I dunno, she looked pretty toasty to me-- suddenly wasn't getting her touches right and all that. She worked her butt off all game.

    Remember that it is no longer the kind of guessing game that it used to be; monitors tell you how they are compared to how they look.



    I thought they needed to switch fields more. I also thought, again, that Krieger is about through-- has lost half a step and didn't have it to spare. But mostly we just keep getting teams in the worst possible order; if they close the deal against France, then they are happy enough to get away with a draw, and so are we, really.

    Instead, they had to go after the win, and they are good enough that sometimes they'll get it.

    I don't share the misery about finishing-- I didn't think we had many chances to finish, and I thought we got good shots on those; they just didn't go in. I would like to see our outside shots stay at frame level more, but that's pretty much true of the other teams too.

    Now France is all set up to get two monkeys off their back with one win... worst possible order...
     
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  17. Dundalk24

    Dundalk24 Member

    Jul 20, 2007
    PA/OH
    Maybe this She Believes tournament business needs to end. It's not good for our psyches, this top flight competition malarkey...not in the midst of when the USWNT is trialing new ideas and bleeding in new players at the outset of the next cycle. Not when said opponents are prepping for a major tournament. Instead, if coaches are going to experiment to see who and what "works" and shows promise let's schedule some tasty non threatening cupcakes. That way similar outings such as those of the last two matches would typically result in comfortable victories. In past matches against minnows many fans seem to display an air of satisfaction and hopefulness when players shine against opposition with more accommodating skill sets. It's more important to feel better than to get better. If we think we're good then we're good. We don't need reality checks. We can just create our own reality and channel that self belief into results.
     
  18. Calci0

    Calci0 Member

    Jun 22, 2013
    NC
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    ^Not sure if that's sarcasm?!?
     
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  19. Dundalk24

    Dundalk24 Member

    Jul 20, 2007
    PA/OH
    Do you think the teams, the players, are concerned about the order? Just play the matches. Does anybody care that the US won the SBC last year? The Germans sure don't.

    I agree about the finishing. England's defense was more competent than Germany's. More difficult to counter against because they usually get numbers back, as in the NFL, they always seemed to have an extra safety patrolling in the secondary. Less open space to cross into in front of the box which meant they needed to exploit the flanks, which besides Dunn, they could have done a bit more I thought.
     
  20. Dundalk24

    Dundalk24 Member

    Jul 20, 2007
    PA/OH
  21. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    How many losses in a Spring tournament does it take to get a coach fired?

    Two, wasn't it?

    Oh wait. It was two losses for his coaching career.
     
  22. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    No, not really.

    But I'm getting kinda tired of it...
     
  23. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    Nah. They are more concerned about going winless this edition.
     
  24. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Liked the experimental line-up...liked that Lavelle got 90 minutes. The two things I dot like r the Square Pegs theory and technical=good. Why is Lavelle playing on the flank? A truly experimental lineup would have put Lavelle at the #10 and an actual flank player defending the flank. There were several occasions when England was bringing the ball into there attacking third and Lavelle wasn't even in the picture. Let her play the position she has trained for or if u wanna make her a wide player (mistake but Ellis loves those lefties), then play her there after she's learned the position. Secondly, yes Lavelle is technical on the ball but that just a part of her game. People want to say look how well she played because she is technical. That's like saying look how well Williams played because she's fast. That attributes u bring to the game don't quantify how well u performed. I thought Lavelle had a good first cap especially considering she was out of position but I would have been much happier with fewer slick moves and more combining with team mates.
     
  25. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Ellis couldn't get fired if she tried. I know this because she has been trying for a couple years now. Beside USSoccer policy seems to be promote, not fire.
     
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