USWNT lawsuit against USSF for getting paid less than USMNT

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Jazzy Altidore, Mar 9, 2019.

  1. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    When terms like discrimination, equality, justice, etc. start getting thrown around, level heads go astray.

    For me, it's also a reminder of another broken contract. USSF puts the best players on the field and I watch and give them money. Simple, right? Let's look at Rapinoe. We can go on about whether her kneeling should be punished, calling a team owner a homophobe, social equality or justice or what she claims she is fighting for, but there is a painful reason she should not be on the USWNT that is constantly glossed over. She's not good enough.
     
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  2. Editor In Chimp

    Editor In Chimp Member+

    Sep 7, 2008
    Interesting response; thanks for sharing.
     
  3. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    Well, now that I think about it, I say it all the time in response to the idiots that post "they should have sent out the women!" "or, they need to take lessons from the women!"

    In that context, I think it's only fair to point out the facts. They really pissed me off with their slagging on the men last time around, and a whole bunch of idiots out there took them literally. They think they could play against/beat the men. This is (probably) not the forum for those comments. My bad. Not sure where incel comes into play, though.

    I'm saying The Women should be clamoring for a separate fed. Or, separate accounting within the Fed.
     
  4. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    So, I'm wondering, why don't they just shift their pay from NWSL to the WNT?

    I'm not being sarcastic - I can't figure out why the players under contract to the Fed would have part of their salary funneled through the NWSL?

    Is it a tax thing?

    Or a marketing thing?
     
  5. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    If you work in labor law, then I defer to your expertise. But, if not .....

    I think this is a great analogy, and with all due respect, I think you got it wrong. I think GM certainly could opt to pay workers in different divisions differently.

    Peace
     
  6. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    If I understand it correctly, and I may be wrong, a player receives X amount of money for USWNT and Y amount of money for NWSL both paid by USSF. The players are not on NWSL payroll. The idea is to spread out big names for marketing purposes. The reality is players can call owners homophobes or disappear for a month from NWSL and the league can't do a damn thing about it.
     
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  7. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    Ok, that helps, but I'm still confused.

    And, I just figured it out. Duh!

    If the Fed pays them to play in the NWSL, then the Fed controls what league they play in. The players can't take all that Fed money and then go play somewhere else.

    So, next question - when the women are complaining about what they get from the Fed, they're not counting their NWSL salaries, right?

    If that's correct, well, their NWSL salaries should be in the equation.

    And, if I was the head of the Fed, I would make everything that was paid to the player that came from the Fed their WNT income. And, I would label their NT income as such, and I'd label the money for playing in the NWSL as a bonus for promoting the league. If they decide to go to another league, they lose the NWSL salary. And, ultimately, as Press was threatened with, they get cut.

    Now I wonder how "in bed" the Fed is with the NWSL owners. The Fed is paying a huge chunk of their labor costs. I wonder if the NWSL owners get board seats, like SUM does. Or, if there's overlap between SUM owners and NWSL owners.
     
  8. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    Well-said.
     
  9. Editor In Chimp

    Editor In Chimp Member+

    Sep 7, 2008
    To be fair, anyone who cites that the WNT is more successful relative to their competition than the MNT as justification for changing the amount of money they get should probably just be ignored.

    I would agree that a simple solution would be to create a separate fed for the WNT but I'm going to guess than isn't legally possible for whatever reason.
     
  10. lmorin

    lmorin Member+

    Mar 29, 2000
    New Hampshire
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    On the one hand, I believe the men and women should be paid equally for national team "games that matter" because they are representing the USA equally. On the other, the women's game is being strongly supported by the amount of money USSoccer puts into annual salaries for the better players, into the national women's league and into subsidies such as child care and retirement plans that are not available to the men.

    In its current form, the opportunities and obligations of the men are quite remarkably different from those of the women. One glaring difference is the number of games a "starting" man will play per year compared to the number played by a starting woman. Look at Pulisic, How many USMNT games has he missed because he plays in Germany and is not invited to participate in more regional friendlies involving primarily MLS players. As a result, he loses all the pay from each such game missed. In contrast, the starters of the women's team get paid no matter whether they are in a particular game squad or not. Plus, they get all the other support as well.

    The bottom line, to me at least, is that the women cannot have it both ways. I do not understand the merit of the lawsuit considering that many, possibly all, the major issues were confronted and agreed upon with the acceptance of the current CBA that still has 2-3 yrs to run. It was negotiated after the women fired their long time attorneys. The situation is just bizarre, IMHO.
     
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  11. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Seriously? The players think that? Not the most brain dead PTHers, but the players?

    Gotta ask for a link on that.
    The arrangement between the league, the USWNT and the Fed is possibly necessary for everyone to thrive. However, it is incredibly rife for abuse. I'm talking the potential is there for Jack Warner to look at it and say, man, that's some shady shit.

    The only check and balance is the morals and character of the people in the system. There's no check and balance within the system.

    It makes me feel like I did about MLS when Logan sent Valderrama from Miami to Tampa Bay back in the day.
     
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  12. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    Follow the Fed on facebook. The "the women are (literally) better than the men" comments are incessant.
     
  13. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So you believe that the Chelsea women's soccer team should get paid the same as the Chelsea's men soccer team as well?
     
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  14. diablodelsol

    diablodelsol Member+

    Jan 10, 2001
    New Jersey
    So not the players.

    “People say mean things about the Us Men’s soccer team on Facebook....news at 11”
     
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  15. Editor In Chimp

    Editor In Chimp Member+

    Sep 7, 2008
    The WNT making this move now when the WWC will make them broadly culturally front and center again for a couple months makes perfect sense; if you were going to renege on a CBA now would be the ideal time in terms of news cycle.
     
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  16. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    More like ignorant people follow the Women's lead, when they imply they are actually better than the men, and regurgitate it.

    So, ya, when people say the women are actually better soccer players than the men, I'm going to point out that they got scorched by 16 year old boys. News at 11? Ok, if that's how you see it.
     
  17. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    Lloyd says she should be paid as much as Messi, so why not?
     
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  18. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    I've said they don't have to be separate Feds. Just do separate accounting, with separate media/marketing contracts when the SUM agreement expires (which is in a couple of years, I think).

    You could argue that the current SUM/USSF arrangement creates an incentive to undervalue the Women. The USSF could be selling the rights, based upon SUM's desire to promote the men, to promote MLS. Break out those media contracts and whomever it is has to pay fair value for the women's rights.

    The only obstacle to separate accounting, media/marketing rights is the women objecting. Which they shouldn't if they're allegations are to be believed.
     
  19. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For this to work from a legal perspective (not that it is necessary to defeat the lawsuit), you would truly need to divide them into separate corporate entities, controlled by separate directors/executives. It would require a divestment of the women's team and operations from USSF as we know it. There's no way USSF is going to do that because they have way more marketing and economic strength with the two team's combined under the same umbrella.
     
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  20. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    @Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Please answer my questions: Should Chelsea's men players be paid the same as Chelsea's women players, even if revenues are exponentially different? Pretend they are governed by US and not UK law.

    Should the Portland Thorns be paid the same as the Portland Timbers?
     
  21. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    Did she really say this?
     
  22. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Am seeing the new uniforms for all teams in Women’s World Cup. US Soccer shows both men and women. For some reason on the back stripe by the neck there are three stars. Almost every woman who comments says the men don’t deserve them and say or imply the women are better. I’ve tried over the years to pull for the woman’s team and some / most of their players are gracious to the men’s team. However their fans and a few players are obnoxious year after year and it’s no longer enough to post that they lost to boys. There needs to be multiple links posted after that claim.
     
  23. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To give the players on the WNT the benefit of the doubt, when they say something like "We are better than the men" I would take that to be a shorthand for "We do better relative to our competition than the men do relative to their competition". That would have the benefit of being both sane and true. It is hard to believe that any member of the WNT has claimed that they are in fact better players, and form a stronger team, than the men. So, until I see or hear that written or said, allow me to hold onto the idea that sanity still has its day.
     
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  24. Editor In Chimp

    Editor In Chimp Member+

    Sep 7, 2008
    I'm assuming she said this as a joke, right?
     
  25. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Fed made a ton of money from Copa 2016. It will make a ton of money from 2026. That money was/will be earned on the men’s side. The dollars involved are waaaay too much to go in compensation to the USMNT. It subsidized the whole federation; women, youth teams, youth soccer, etc.

    Under your scenario, what happens with the 2026 windfall?
     

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