USSF threatens "replacement players" for Feb. qualifier

3 points on the road to Germany. The players do want to go right?

 

Of course, with dignity, respect and, oh yes, dead president.

 

Exactly, but the fed only offered mediation after they turned down the players offer for mediation which they made after turning down the fed's offer for arbitration.

Not only does each side want to win, but they want to win on their home field under their ground rules with officials they choose.

 

Simpleton, the players loose an easily attainable three points in the final qualifying round, a chance to cash a paycheck for showing up, and possibly a large bonus check down the line. Let's not forget that even our best team has struggled at times in qualifying up until and including the last round. Road games aren't easy to win as it is. The players could have taken a temporary deal that would have let them play the next two games. If a deal is signed right after the T&T game and the replacements lose three points, that three points could be the difference between third place, the playoff, or sitting home in 2006. Either way, the players could lose a lot of money. A good performance in qualifying could even get the US a seeding in Germany which would have a direct affect on what the players take home. This game could cost the players a lot.

 

Thanks, Jack, for the optimistic answer. Just curious, how would the FMCS know that the two sides were serious about settling? None of us have been able to figure out the true intentions of either side, and we've been following the situation closely for weeks now.

 

Please, Mister Simplton next time. As far as the consequences of T&T go, you are singing my song. I have said all along that locking the players out of the T&T game made no sense for either side. I supported the Arena solution from the moment it was made public.

Like then, like now, the Fed is suffering from poor and naked ledership. The Fed made good on their threat to replace the players and now there seems to be second thoughts. The players are not going to simply play for the good of the game and opps we made a mistake. The Fed have made their bed and now they must lie in it or back track. In other words, they hired the scabs, so they live or die by their scabs.

The player's destiny will not be decided in Trinidad, even though I agree completely with your prognosis. For the players there is far more at stake in the long term. In the short term, the risk is the Fed's. They have to deal with their decision to replace. Clearly, the risk is not working out in Carson. I think what you bring up should be obvious to all concerned, but it is not a reason to accept another bad deal from the Fed. Remember this as well, the Fed never expected the solidarity of the MLS and other professional players. Sounds dumb I know, but that is who is running Soccer House. You would expect they would have worked through and vetted their replacements before they went public. More nudity.

If they had not moved forward with replacement players, the Fed would be in a stronger position. If you are the PA, then you have to love the idea of the scabs making a mockery of the Fed for the very reasons you state about T&T and qualifying. This to me is the most glaring of the many mistakes by Soccer House. So, yes you are right, the players are gambling if they let the scabs go forward. But I suggest to you the Fed is gambling far more, meaning their reputation and standing amongst all that so clearly love this game in this country and on BS.

If the result is 4-0 T&T, this site will go up in flames. There will be calls for the heads of all those involved at Soccer House. Not pretty. The players can manage their risk of one game. The Fed must win/tie against T&T for this to work. Whose boots would you rather wear?

 

So it is more important to gain "respect" than go to Germany?

 

Because the pre-game expectations will be so high?

I'm staying out of this, but when all is done here, will you tell us who you are? I'm thinking of starting a pool.

 

This is one of the few things Frankie has said that I agree with.

A win by the sc... er, replacement players, really hurts the PA's leverage.

Conversely, if T&T takes the three points, the pendulum swings the other way.

Personally, I think both sides get a little nervous thinking about this roll of the dice, which is why I think they're in Chicago right talking, right now.

Well, that and a chance to have Lew Malnatti's.

 

You cannot be serious. But I will pretend you are. I would not raise a hand to help anyone who hadn't paid me like they said they would for two years. It is simple. Pay me like you said you would and I will take you to Germany, otherwise, good luck with your scabs. I hear the goalie is awesome.

 

I am sure that this was posted here already somewhere...
But...

http://uslsoccer.com/home/90574.html

 

Beau, honestly. My "characters's" POV is pure. I recognize yours is more nuanced. Withstanding our differences, does the Fed's current position seem upside down, as Galeano would say, to you? How are they going to explain anything but a one point or better result in Port of Spain? It seems to me they have stepped in their own sh^%. Do you disagree?

 

Do you know that, according to a number of sources, the players have agreed to play without contract (of course, they also insist on reserving the right to strike, so it's a smart move) and the Fed won't let them.

I, for one, think that letting this game go for "leverage" is a big mistake by the Fed. I also don't think they will do that, although we are getting fairly close to the call-up window, no? I know other folks know these rules better than I. Bruce has 14 days before a game to notify clubs? Can he just go notify all the A-teamers clubs even if there's a lock-out "just in case?"

 

I, hearby nominate Mister Freisland to replace the good doctor and to serve a term no longer than four years and to be reinstated, for four more, on the basis of his performance within said timeframe if the Board deems it so. Does anyone second the motion?

 

As noted by others, 3 points, a trip to Germany, and millions in potential performance bonuses

Hardly. The Fed could blame the players for not accepting arbitration. One could also note that the players boycotted the December training camp. Both sides have gotten us to this point, not just one.

Or maybe the players became less sure of their position when the SF actually went ahead and started training replacements, giving them three weeks to train together prior to taking on Antigua's/St. Vincent's beyotch (which by the way couldn't even beat Botswana in 2003)

We probably won't find out, since they're mediating, and BOTH sides realize they have a ton to lose. But T&T hasn't beaten any good side for over a year. Their last victories over top-100 teams were Iraq (#62 per Elo) in 2004, Cuba (#69) in 2003, and Honduras (#27) in 2001. Other than that, they've played rather mediocre or very weak sides, and they don't even have a very record in those games. Taiwan beat them in T&T not too long ago. I don't care how angry they are that we beat them in 1989, they won't stand a chance, even on their home field against our First XI, and I wouldn't be all that confident that A-leaguers or college all-stars, properly trained under Bruce for 3 weeks, couldn't beat them.

But both sides have to agree to walk into mediation. Prior to today, one or both weren't. If you have special insight or knowledge as to which side it was, cite your facts. But don't just speculate that because you love the players and you love unions and hate scabs, that once again the noble laborers are sticking it to the evil employers.

 

They're meeting tomorrow (Friday). From the soccer writer at my newspaper.

 

Well, maybe you shouldn't thank me for being optimistic because every time I get that way, things fall apart.

But the reason I see FMCS as a sign of serious intent on the part of the parties is that its a more involved process to initiate than your standard mediation. http://www.fmcs.gov/internet/categoryList.asp?categoryID=47

You don't just do it on a lark.

And there are rigorous screening procedures for the panelists, so they will get someone good I'm sure.

Finally, its a multi-step process, and I'm sure the parties are aware that under the best of circumstances, you don't just walk into a mediator's office to hammer out a CBA in one session. Therefore I would assume that the parties would agree to resume playing (with PA players) while the proceedings take place, because its unlikely that the process would resut in a completed CBA within the next week or so, giving them enough time to get the players into camp and train to win in T&T. I'd assume that the sides will give each other a bit of benefit of the doubt and go into the mediation in good faith and take the pitch in good faith. If one side decides the other isn't acting in good faith, it can always resume its nasty posturing post-T&T.

In other words, maybe the sides are finally realizing that they have more to lose together by dropping 3 points in T&T than either side would lose in leverage by agreeing to patch things up, even if its just temporarily to get through T&T. Meaning, its not like winning in T&T would give one side or the other such enormous bargaining power prior to concluding negotiation between T&T and Mexico.

Sorry if that was confusing. Also, I made many assumptions and when you make an assumption, you can make an ass of u and mption.

 

The players agreed to mediate months ago. The Fed would only arbitrate "winner take all." I don't understand how this keeps getting confused. Any way, try it like this:

Tick tock, tick tock
9 February '05 appoaches
as the scabs workout
and even though
the goalie is rumored to be awesome
there are questions about the midfielder
"is he a girl
or just handsome?"
Arena scatches his head
Mooch scratches his....
and back in Chicago someone is saying
"but you said
the players were just jockeying..."
and from the back of the room
"would someone tell the good doctor to put some clothes on?"
so it goes
until tomorrow
now we mediate
lock out
strike
lock out
strike
you slept with her
wasn't me
wasn't you
wasn't me
is this a song?
"would someone tell the good doctor to put some clothes on?
alright already
how much?
how much ya got?
without you we ain't got squat
squat is more than you are paying now
so how much?
how much ya got?
we will go sixteen
what took so long?
"would someone tell the good doctor to put some clothes on?
what about the scabs?
what about em?
I'd rather Clive and sister Sedona get a Cap
so we have a deal?
what about the per diem and a fresh meal?
alright aready
we'll see to the steaks
and we'll make sure
the barman pours em strong
"would someone tell the good doctor to put some clothes on?​

 

The last team T&T beat 4-0 was the Dominican Republic. Again, until I see evidence that our college all-stars couldn't beat DomRep, I think you're assuming too much about T&T.

What if the result is 1-0 USA?

 

I thought today was the meeting.


Oh well.


One more day of guarded optimism before we take the final plunge.

 

If that were the result, then I would keep the scabs, pay em the 21 million and give the good doctor a raise. Of course if cows could fly, they would be hard to milk.

 

Maybe they are continuing the meeting tomorrow?

 

respect always comes from something good, if they get respect that means they're going to Germany.

 

not to be a stick in the mud, but our B team tied Haiti in Miami one time...but i think that while T&T would have and advantage, i dont think a result for the USA is out of the question as T&T is of questionable form lately

 

So either:

A. They reached no agreement today. Yet it wasn't so futile that another day seemed useless.
B. They need tomorrow to wrap things up and iron out the details.

Anything to report, J/TriHutch?

My fingers are getting sore from being crossed all day. Plus it's hard to type.