USSF Development Academy 2.0

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by Real Corona, Mar 22, 2012.

  1. FIFA rules make the first 4 years (12 to 15) count as category 4 to keep the amount of money involved down.
    Confederatie Categorie 1 Categorie 2 Categorie 3 Categorie 4
    AFC
    $ 40.000 $ 10.000 $ 2.000
    CAF $ 30.000 $ 10.000 $ 2.000
    CONCACAF $ 40.000 $ 10.000 $ 2.000
    CONMEBOL $ 50.000 $ 30.000 $10.000 $ 2.000
    OFC $ 30.000 $ 10.000 $ 2.000
    UEFA € 90.000 € 60.000 € 30.000 € 10.000
     
    Winoman repped this.
  2. whereas for Category II clubs within CONCACAF, the annual training costs are deemed to be USD 40,000
    Afaik the league in which the Galaxy II plays only has since 2018 been given the division II status. Hence that 40k is impossible as he moved on before that.
    The max would be 3 years of 2000= 6000$$.
    He played in the first team of the LAG II more than 5 times, which makes LAG II obliged to pay his former club the TC which are they themselves. So by playing him there's no duty for next clubs to pay TC anymore.
     
  3. Article 1.2 FIFA RSTP obliges the federation to put in place a system that compensates clubs for their investments in case of internal transfers. These donot have to be the same as the international TC if I'm correct.
     
  4. Eakas

    Eakas New Member

    Dec 13, 2017
    Understandably, what are mainly discussed here are the cases in which current MLS academy players sign their first professional contracts with foreign clubs. What about a case where a player is released from an MLS academy (let's say when he is 16) and then goes on to try out with a German club when he is close to 18, impressed the club and signs his first professional contract with the German club? Would/can MLS academy seek training compensation in that case? There may not be many cases like that, but there could be some, I think.
     
  5. AFAIK they can. But it wouldnot generate much money as the kid is let's say since his 12th year in the academy, so the stretch is 12-15= 4 times 2000 = 8000
     
  6. JG

    JG Member+

    Jun 27, 1999
    The bigger problem is for players that play in an academy until they are 18, go to college, and then want to sign in a lower-level European league. The training compensation payment for some of those category II and III clubs is huge relative to the salaries they pay out.
     
  7. Eakas

    Eakas New Member

    Dec 13, 2017
    Thank you. I looked at the page you referred for numbers, and it seems if the player is at the former academy till the end of the season he turned 16, then the final year would be probably around $40,000, which brings the total up to $48,000.

    It was interesting to see in this article in Athletics (https://theathletic.com/933096/2019...olicy-and-how-it-will-impact-academy-players/) that says "There are some limitations as to the player over whom MLS will pursue claims. Namely, MLS needs to have shown genuine interest in signing the player before his overseas move in order to do so..." I wonder if this is an MLS specific thing they will go by, but if this was true, the club may not have interest in signing a former academy player that they released.
     
  8. Eakas

    Eakas New Member

    Dec 13, 2017
    That's true. It would seem to greatly reduce the chance of such player getting a contract in lower-level Euro league since such a club would not want to pay that much for signing a player.
     
  9. TarHeels17

    TarHeels17 Member+

    Jan 10, 2017
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    https://www.fccincinnati.com/post/2019/05/06/club-launch-academy-u-15-u-1617-teams

    Cincy adds their first academy teams at U15 and U17 level. I hope they go all out on it because A) it doesn't seem like it's a franchise that's going to spend as much as the top tier teams and B) they have a great fan base. It'd be a unique opportunity to be a youngster there. The region is getting crowded, though, with Columbus, Chicago, and even a top tier USL franchise in Indy. I won't be surprised either if in 5 years there are good academies in Louisville and Detroit as well.
     
  10. BraveUpNorth

    BraveUpNorth Member

    Jan 21, 2016
    Club:
    Minnesota United FC
    A big issue for them at first is that Columbus has done a fairly good job of pulling talent out of the Cincy area. There are a number of players on the U17 team that currently car pool from Cincy. Will they stay home or stay with the program they know?
     
  11. bpet15

    bpet15 Member

    Oct 4, 2016
    #6386 bpet15, May 7, 2019
    Last edited: May 7, 2019
    So I have done about as much reading on training compensation as I can. It really is about as clear as mud.

    Some of the things that I discovered in my research that everyone may not know are:
    • Training compensation categories apply to the receiving club, not the club which the player leaves
    An example of this would be - a kid leaves Columbus Crew and is signed by Manchester City - it is not the category that Columbus falls in that dictates the payment - it is the category that Manchester City falls in that dictates the payment. The way I read it is, they are looking at what the receiving club "would have spent" developing the players versus what the club the player is leaving did spend.

    • There is a provision that states "in order to receive training compensation, the training club should at least show a bona fide interest in retaining the services of the player for the future."
    For me, the above provision is where the "MLS will have 14 days to make a contract offer" comes into play. If the training club showed no interest in offering a contract to secure the services of the player for the future, they would not be entitled to training comp. With the 14 day rule - this gives them the opportunity to offer a contract, which could be turned down - but would be enough to warrant training comp.

    These are the two most interesting tidbits I found...if I ran across any more, I will post them.
     
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  12. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think we're all now understanding why this hasn't been done in the past. A lot of rules to apply to mostly new soccer clubs and teams and across the US legal situation vs FIFA rules/laws.
     
  13. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    It hasn't been done in the past for another obvious reason.
    For the first 20 years of the league, MLS would have been dishing out a lot more payments than receiving them. It would be a money losing enterprise. [MLS didn't really have academies until 2007 when the homegrown initiative was creative. Prior to that they were basically community outreach programs.]

    So they didn't pay or receive these payments. FIFA turned a blind eye for a reason I'm not sure I understand.
     
    Zamphyr repped this.
  14. Baysider

    Baysider Member+

    Jul 16, 2004
    Santa Monica
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Is that a general rule? He never signed with LAG II and was a guest player. If that's the rule, then it's easy for the Galaxy in the future to simply not play the player.

    I guess my question is, if a player was in the Galaxy Academy from 12-18 (and never played with the first or second teams) and then signed with a German team, how much is owed in training compensation to the Galaxy?

    Edit: so I see from above it would be 8k + 40k each for years 16 and 17.
     
  15. bpet15

    bpet15 Member

    Oct 4, 2016
    The way I have come to understand it would be the following:
    • If Galaxy did not offer a contract or can't prove they made a bona fide effort to secure his services for the future - they are owed $0 - there are some caveats to that, however, I won't go into them.
    If the Galaxy offered a contract or can prove the made a bona fide effort to secure his services then the following would apply.
    • Galaxy would be owed the Category IV amount for ages 12, 13, 14, 15 ($10k x 4 = $40k)
    • Depending on which German club he went to, and the Category their Academy is classified in - the Galaxy woudl be owed anywhere from $30k to $90k for the year the player was 16, 17, 18 ($90k - $270k)
    • Total is anywhere from $130k to $310k
    Guys - I may be off in this info. But I am making a genuine attempt to understand it. Please feel free to let me know where I am going wrong, if I am indeed wrong.
     
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  16. Eakas

    Eakas New Member

    Dec 13, 2017
    Earlier calculation was not correct since "Training compensation categories apply to the receiving club, not the club which the player leaves" as bpet15 stated above. So I think bpet15's calculation above is correct, which is much higher than earlier calculation (which was based on the presumed category of MLS clubs in CONCACAF).
     
    Baysider repped this.
  17. Baysider

    Baysider Member+

    Jul 16, 2004
    Santa Monica
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Which suggests why they added the clause that the MLS team has the right to make an offer within 14 days.
     
  18. JG

    JG Member+

    Jun 27, 1999
    Would this apply for MLS teams? There are special provisions for transfers within the EU/EEA that require the player's previous team to have attempted to retain the player's services, but I don't see anything about that in the rest of the regulations. Could be somewhere in the DRC/CAS jurisprudence though.
     
    Eakas repped this.
  19. When a player plays in 5 matches that club has to pay TC to his former club. Even if he's only on the pitch for 1 minute!
     
  20. Lawyers make money of it because it's not simple.:D
    Got another surprise. In 2014 the FIFA made a German club relegate, because they wouldnot pay the TC to the players former South American club. The club went to the German court, after FIFA was found to be right by the arbitrage court and the CAS. The German court decided that FIFA was wrong, as the TC in the eyes of the German Courts was interfering with free movement of labour. However since then we still see TC/SP being asked and payed.
    It concerned the player Sergio Sagarzazu and the club SV Wilhelmshaven.
    It seems to be related to the fact the player was transfer free.
     
    Eakas repped this.
  21. :ROFLMAO:
    That's the way lawyers like it;)
     

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