USMNT: The Berhalter Era pt. 1/ World Cup 2022 /Controversy

Not a hero. Just someone who is immune from criticism and not responsible for the team's results, unless of course they win, at which point you can stick it in the face of those who think a coach has any influence on the game.

Obviously. We know this already.

 

Not at all. If he fails to qualify for the next WC he should be held responsible.

 

Oh, I've read them. As well as Kyle's responses. It seems Kyle wasn't fully convinced or satisfied with your responses either. It's not a matter of semantics. It's just a very poor and inconsistent argument that you are making.

Its okay. It's not the first time, and it obviously won't be the last.

 

Bold standards giving the expansion of the World Cup. Qualifying should be, is, and has been been since 1998 the bare minimum standard. The way you evolve with the times is truly inspiring, Encino Man.

 

Pretty sure I haven't lost sleep over not satisfying someone on the internet message boards.

The goal is to qualify for the WC, something we didn't do last cycle, so baby steps.

I'll let you and Kyle scream at the void.

 

I'm sorry, I just read this again and I sorta can't believe what I read and the argument you are trying to make.

To recap, Gregg Berhalter had 5 years with Columbus Crew, in a average to sub par CONCACAF league (looking at international results) that was built on parity. He had these player virtually every day, taught them his "system" and won absolutely ********in nothing. They won nothing because his system was found out, and because he was unable to adapt his system when playing teams of equal or slightly more quality.

Years later he deserves time because he is teaching his system, in a more difficult level of competition, with players he has limited time with. Somehow his obvious and clear failures at the MLS level warrant more time at an international level because.....something.

My god.....

 

Dude, no one is talking about the result. Quit saying that.

 

Ale Moreno basically tore apart GB and the USSF last night on ESPN FC. He tore apart GB’s tactics, he tore apart GB’s attack on the media, he tore apart GB’s assessment of the game that it was a better performance than the Gold Cup final, he tore apart GB’s assessment that 3-0 wasn’t an accurate reflection of the game (Ale said it should’ve been worse), and he tore apart the USSF for not even giving Tata Martino an interview.

But, I mean, what does he know...

Edit: Oh yeah, Ale also tore apart that Pulisic said after the game that the players played scared against Mexico. If the game is meaningless, then why are the players scared? If the players are scared, why is GB trying to play a system that the players clearly can’t implement against a team of that quality? A team that, ya know, presses high, which was GB’s exact same weakness in Cbus that he never learned from. Why isn’t GB putting players in positions to succeed and ease their fears? Unless he’s using the phenomenal Klinsmann tactic of purposely making players feel uncomfortable to make them ‘better’, which worked out real well.

 

OK, so my thoughts about the game. First, let me frame this post appropriately and make it very very clear right off the bat: the score doesn't matter. The fact that the US lost doesn't matter. The result doesn't matter. I don't want anyone responding to this talking about "the result" (I'm looking at you Stanger).

Second, I view the US like Juventus, Bayern, or PSG. For the US, it's all about the World Cup and the Gold Cup final. I expect the US to be in the Gold Cup final every time AND to look respectable. Not win, but be respectable and competitive. At the WC, we should advance out of the group, and I think ideally get to the quarterfinal. I don't care about beating Curacao, T&T, El Salvador, or Canada.

Let me go player by player to start:

Steffen - Let's be real about Steffen, in MLS he was decent with his feet. When he first got here he was terrible, just plain bad. Over time, he improved to be decent with his feet, in MLS. At the international level, (and I'd wager to bet Bundesilga and EPL level) he isn't good with his feet, he's mediocre, serviceable at best. GB putting Steffen in a position where he is distributing the ball, under intense pressure for 90 minutes, is unforgivable. That isn't Steffen's game at the top level, period.

Cannon and Dest - Left on islands to defend by the wingers, that's if they weren't caught up field out of position. BTW, how the hell can you be caught up field when the team can't even get the ball past the midfield line? The tactics were unbelievable for the fullbacks. Playing like freakin' Dani Alves and Marcelo.

Zimmerman and Long - For me, they are MLS defenders, not international level defenders. West Ham dodged a bullet trying to buy Long. They bought Toronto / Vancouver CB Donell Henry a few years ago as well, I don't think he ever even played for them. Point is that while Zimmerman and Long has good physical traits, they are reactive defenders, not proactive. They play on instinct, not intellect. At the international level, this isn't good enough.

Trapp and Morales - Such an impotent midfield. Simply not good enough, period. Neither should play for the US every again, under any circumstances. Morales is 29, Trapp is 26. They've reached their potential, and it's not good enough to beat Mexico is a real game (or even a 'meaningless game' according to some posters). They are not good enough to get to a WC quarterfinal, period.

Boyd - Great debut, hasn't done shit since. Hard to do anything as a winger though when you don't have the ball. I'd still keep him around.

McKennie - Keeping him around, but yet again I'm disappointed and underwhelmed by his performance. He's a #6 in my eyes honestly, not a #8.

Pulisic - Couple nice dribbles, but had no help. Had no composure. Didn't defend on the first goal, resorted to kicking players by the end of the game (as did other Americans, unfortunately).

Zardes - He's 28. He's not winning us games against Mexico or taking us to the WC QF. Thanks for all the caps, time to go.

Lovitz - 28 year old MLS journeyman. Really? How does this help in any way?

Lletget - 27 year old injury prone squad player with no real position. Really?

Morris - 25 years old, so still youngish, but isn't good enough to play as a #9, and is scared to take people on 1v1 when on the wing, in MLS. Do I need to say more?

Robinson - He's young (22) and has some upside, so why not. However, I saw a lot of reactive defending from him, not proactive, like on the third goal.

Ream - He didn't play, but Tim freakin' Ream is on this team. Why? He's turning 32 next month, and hasn't been good enough for literally a decade. A freakin' decade.

Sargent - Why isn't he starting? Anyone, answer me why Zardes is starting over him? How does this help us long term?

Finally, GB. Honestly, I feel like I've described how he let the players down already, but just go and watch Alejandro Moreno on ESPN FC, I agree with him 100%. If you don't have ESPN+ either quit being cheap, or keep being cheap and use the free trial. Moreno echos all of my sentiments, many of which I've posted up-thread.

 

In regards to Long, I think his development sorta stagnated a bit without Jesse Marsch. I felt like he was on an upwards trajectory and has sorta just plateaued At age 26 it happened at the worst possible time for a defender who wants to be international class.

 

Yeah. I think he could still be a decent #2 CB within the region, provided the #1 CB is a Parkhurst type that stays home and reads the game well, but that’s about it. It might even work at WC level, but we don’t have the necessary #1 CB that is proactive and intelligent positionally.

 

So, fold the team? No one is good enough, so what’s the point?

[emoji23]

 

Your reading comprehension is shockingly deficient.

 

Yet not his capacity for hyperbole.

 

Nah, I just watched a different game than you did.

If you want my honest opinion, I think you are right in your player assessments and we just aren't good enough. I think Berhalter's system, which was successful in Columbus, could be successful for the USMNT if he had the time to fully implement it and the players could train more than a few weeks a year with him.

At every level, when you take the thought out of the play on the field, play gets faster. Some of the mistakes we saw against Mexico were due to slowness of play. When playing a high pressure team that will kill you every time.

 

I've stayed out of it but I watched the same game that @Kyle Crew did. My question would be, first of all, the system that he's trying to implement as a coach takes more than a few weeks with the players. It has to be a Federation system just the way Spain and Germany did over a decade at all levels from U14 up. It also requires the talent to be able to play out of tight spaces and to have the vision to make a pass somewhere that you know your teammate is going without having to look up. For example, Chicharito getting the ball at midfield with a defender on his back and his first touch was a pass out wide right into space where the defender was quickly approaching.

The USSF hasn't had this design. GB can't implement the design top down without the USSF being on the same page. GB can't implement this design without the players being together over a year or two. GB can't implement the design when you have players that can do the basics like trapping the ball under duress without it going 4 feet away. The USSF needs to start with the basics at the youth level so we have a pool of players that can develop together. I'm not sure that the ones I saw on the pitch will take us out of a group in WC 2022, which we should qualify to after the latest reconfiguration of CONCACAF qualifying.

The USSF not going after Tata was inexcusable but not unexpected from a very political organization that is happy with getting revenue from Mexico games on US soil and the success of the women's team.

 

So, we watched a different game, but you agree with my player assessments and that GB’s tactics are ill suited?

 

Yes, but where you put the blame on Berhalter, I put the blame on the players and on the limited time they have had to train in the system.

I am also not going to be getting my blood pressure up over a money grab friendly a year out from the start of qualifying.

 

GB clearly disagrees with you. He said he’s happier about this friendly than he was the Gold Cup final. Care to explain that one?

 

Is the same dumb fight going on in two separate threads?

 

No.

 

I don't see how your statement is at cross purposes with the post you quoted.

 

It was noted in Kicker that Morales suffered an injury at the end of the US_Mexico game and will be out 3-4 weeks.