I'm not saying CONCACAF needed to do anything "earlier". I agree that CSA was doing their due diligence. It just appears CONCACAF is stepping in where maybe there didn't need to be intervention. CSA sanctioned Ottawa for 2019 and that is good for Canadian soccer (like you said). Who benefits from CONCACAF going over the top and ruling opposite of one of their member governing bodies?
We don't have to like it, but CONCACAF ultimately have the right to take this decision. They dont want cross-border competition when viable league exists within a club's country. That was always the norm and that was always the rules. CONCACAF has ruled that "the exception" no longer applies to Ottawa and they aren't wrong. So it is what it is
Not saying they are wrong ... just wondering who benefits from making it about the 2019 season vs the 2020. Putting a Canadian ownership group in a tough spot should anger Canadians, and most I've seen are happy about this. Just wondering if the cost is worth the hit, but whatever.
This is a very well know fact in these parts... No one cares about the Ottawa Fury, dare I say not many knows they actually exist outside of Ontario and Quebec. So posturing like they are TFC is laughable. Also, they are digging themselves a bigger hole OSEG CEO Mark Goudie has ruled out the Ottawa Fury joining the #CanPL in 2020, should CONCACAF allow the club to spend the 2019 season in the USL Championship before transferring. #FuryFC [via @TonyMarinaro] https://t.co/HdKULxLNXO— The CanPL Hub (@thecanplhub) December 13, 2018 With this attitude, I expect CPL to pull the trigger and put a team in the city while the Fury sits 2019 out which would void their exclusive rights on TD Place
That's certainly possible. From an outsider ... it's just a bad look to start a league with. Hey, let's go get our buddy who's running CONCACAF to fix our problem.
Well, to be fair, that's not CPL's doing, nor CSA. That's CONCACAF. If this goes to the court of sport arbitration, big maybe... Fury play 2019 but after that, huge doubts.
Yeah, and it's the Ottawa Fury owner's money, so they can decide to make whatever decisions they want. Also this is a minor league/niche sport, so who really cares if anyone outside of Ottawa has heard of the team? Those people aren't driving revenues. I'm sure most people have never heard of the Winston-Salem Dash, but it doesn't stop them from suiting up all summer long in front of adoring local fans. And anyone that considers the CPL to be "an estabished league" has no sense of 1) how hard sportsball is and 2) the history of professional soccer in the U.S. and Canada. We should probably wait until they actually finish a full season with all of their inaugural members in tact. To be honest, five years is probably a better guage, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I would think the onus would be on the CPL to show that they've got their shit together, not Fury's problem to "take one for the team". But then, this is the USL forum, and not the CPL or Canada forums.
And I'm saying CPL and CSA should be fighting FOR Ottawa, since it sounds like it was sanctioned for 2019 and CONCACAF is damaging Canadian Soccer by saying no at this point in time. Either way ... it's just a bad look for Canadian soccer because of who the president of CONCACAF currently is, and his involvement in the CSA and CPL prior to his CONCACAF position. You can say "that's CONCACAF" but since this doesn't benefit Canadian soccer in 2019 ... the only people it benefits is possibly CPL ... I'll remain skeptical that CPL has nothing to do with this decision. Good look for the league!
This doesn't concerns CPL has they obviously moved on from OSEG as owners. The CSA did its job Fair enough, and it's a possibility that CPL had a hand in this... but it's not about what we believe, but what we can prove in court The rule is clear...you can't play in another courty's league when a league exist within your borders. Some could argue that CPL technically don't exist but players are being signed, front office are set up, tickets are being sold. This is happening. TFC II will remain in USL for the foreseeable future though
Bravo for CONCACAF for sticking with the rules and hurting Canadian soccer ... and it's sad that CSA and CPL stood by and watched (and likely encouraged/helped). Yay rules that help no one!
The problem with the CONCACAF statement is that Ottawa are not "joining" USL. They're already a member of the league. "Under international sanctioning rules, clubs that are affiliated to an Association may only join competitions in another Association’s territory under exceptional circumstances. For the sanctioning of such play in our region, approval must be given by Concacaf and FIFA" That approval has already been given. The Fury have already joined. That's old news. Yes the CPL is now in place, but that's a separate matter if CONCACAF is going to lean on the bolded language above. CONCACAF would be on better footing not mentioning joining and only talking about sanctioning. It's one thing to prevent Ottawa from joining a league. Compelling them to move to a different league less than three months out is a different matter. And, yes, this is a terrible look for CONCACAF, the CSA, and the CPL. While Ottawa appears to have jumped the gun, I think it's understandable that they would expect to be able to continue to conduct business as usual, with any changes either being voluntary or through negotiation, and not imposed by fiat by CONCACAF. It'll be interesting to see what the Canadian courts think about an international body interfering with a local company's ability to continue to operate its business as it has done for years.
Sure it is. It makes the CSA appear weak and unable to conduct its own affairs. It tells prospective investors in professional soccer in the country that any agreements may be unilaterally abrogated from without. This isn't an expansion team trying to join the USL instead of the CPL, this is an existing club the long-standing agreements to operate in the USL. Now suddenly they're being told - without negotiations, or CSA input, that there will be no negotiation, and they they'll have to play in the CPL or nowhere at all. With tickets already being sold and players under contract. I don't know about you, but it's not a good look for the CSA, or any of the financial backers behind those "20 cities chomping at the bit to join the CPL." Not that it affects their plans per se, but that any agreements they make with the CSA aren't solid. Their investments could be ruined from Miami, Florida. If it was a U.S. matter, I'm pretty sure the courts wouldn't look to kindly at this specific interference. I don't know enough about Canadian jurisprudence to know what they'll think of it. But I do suspect Ottawa has enough of a case to make things very uncomfortable for the CSA and the CPL. This reeks of the CSA/CPL asking CONCACAF to be the bad cop, but it really makes Canada Soccer look like a clown show.
Their sanction has to be resubmitted on a yearly basis. Same for all Canadian clubs playing in USSF leagues The approval is valid on a yearly basis The Fury had a hand in what happened... actually they knew this was coming but maneuvered to force their sanctioning to be extended Based on information I gathered in early 2017 The CSA had a board meeting and it was said that @OttawaFuryFC could play in NASL or USL but once @CPLsoccer started up they had to play in the CPL. John Pugh, owner of @OttawaFuryFC is on the board of the CSA and was at that meeting.— Tony Marinaro (@TonyMarinaro) December 13, 2018 See tweets above...and not a lot of experts likes their chances in court beyond getting a provisional sanction for 2019. After that, they are most likely done
Not sure you understand the hierarchy in FIFA. FIFA Confederations Associations Even if the CSA reluctantly gave a sanction, CONCACAF has the power to shut it down. Only if you're trying to get a cross-boder team, which the CSA banned Yearly basis... they are members on a yearly basis. That sanction can be revoked at anytime at the discretion of the confederation or association. The Fury knew as early as 2017 that this was coming They are as long as they play under the CSA pyramid within FIFA and confederations guidelines. The 3 MLS teams, PDL and USL teams are "exceptions". If a US team playing in Ascendo MX refused to join USL, CONCACAF would have done the same. This would most likely go to the court of sport arbitration, Canadian or US courts? I doubt it makes a difference. Fury has little ground to stand as the rules are crystal clear and they were told in advance Yeah, seems there's plenty of that going around looking at the USSF lawsuits and drama
Did any other professional team give as many professional minutes to Canadian players as Ottawa did last year? If losing the ability to stay in USL has the chance to shut them down ... hard to say it doesn't hurt Canadian soccer in some way or another. And before you say those players will play in CPL ... those players may, and those players will take away minutes from other Canadians who could have got those minutes if Ottawa players were playing for Ottawa instead of those CPL clubs that picked those players up.
Agreed, USSF is a mess. I'm sure Canadians were hoping the CSA wouldn't be ... but alas ... it's soccer and money, corrupt at every level.
Is that yearly basis done via the CSA or does CONCACAF have to grant it yearly? Wonder if this is done in Wales and other places or what FIFA says on this. If it's just yearly based on CSA and CSA approved it this year (which was done) then it's not a yearly application through CONCACAF.
For once and that's since Montagliani took over the CSA, we are interested in results! USL level players aren't going to get us to a world cup or win the Gold Cup. We have tried to put all our eggs in USSF leagues and results speak for themselves...it doesn't work! Good that those guys get playing time but there are better solutions out there. What does South Korea, Australia, Japan and USA* have in common? They are the latest industrialized nations to have started a domestic top league and have yet to miss a single World Cup ever since. *US would be the exception That's why CPL was started, that's why it matters and need to succeed. They aren't being told to fold, they are being told to follow the rules and play in Canada. If they insist in not complying, they will be replaced, that simple. The league wants to expand to as much as 16 by 2026 and start a Division II afterwards, there will be spots for them
Allegedly, CSA did it's job by filing the sanction paper, actually, the USSF papers only arrived this week...so...
The CSA, USSF must both file sanction papers then the CSA send it to CONCACAF who have to approve it. As more details came out, CSA sanctioned Ottawa to play in USL but were waiting on the USSF to sanction them so everything could be sent to CONCACAF...however, the confederation had already warned the Fury and CSA that it didn't agree with the sanctioning and no longer recognized the Ottawa Fury as satisfying the "exception" clause exempting it to play in it's domestic league. The CSA applied anyways for the Fury and CONCACAF shut it down. See tweet below on the most likely scenario Anyway, as it relates to the Fury, the prevailing belief is that they will get 2019 sanctioning, but will be given a hard deadline of 2020 to find a domestic league to play in. CONCACAF wanted to make sure they understood they were being serious so they are making them dance.— Duane Rollins (@24thminute) December 14, 2018
Allegedly? The head of the CSA is quoted as saying that ... I hope he knew what he was talking about, for CSA's sake.
That tweet is what should have happened in the letter, but whatever. CONCACAF (or really Victor) wanting to puff his chest out and make threats is what it is. Just more reasons to believe CONCACAF (and many others in FIFA) learned nothing the past 5 years of lawsuits. Either way, what a shit show.
All of what you said can be true and still mean that the "CONCACAF's actions would hurt Canadian soccer" even if it's only in the short term. Talking about 2026 and what other countries do is meaningless in that.