USL Expansion General discussion

Discussion in 'USL Expansion' started by mikehurst21, Jan 4, 2016.

  1. catfish9

    catfish9 Member

    Jul 14, 2011
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Country:
    United States
    I knew someone would through MSA in there. So should I count Turks & Caicos, Cuba and Dominican Republic?

    What % of Reno population will support soccer (or even know anything about it)? VS those in Bahamas. What competition for discretionary $ is there in a Reno vs Bahamas (other sports in particular)? Bahamas looks to have their national team behind them (And AEG) - I'm guessing they will try to stock team with homegrown talent for developmental purposes. That will add civic and national pride - likely drawing in more fans. they have perfect albeit maybe slightly too large of a stadium - better than most current USL situations.

    Certainly based on prior trials in the Caribbean, this may be doomed for failure. But of all the past deals, this one seems like it has a much stronger foundation and less strikes against it.
     
  2. matbluvenger

    matbluvenger Member+

    Aug 2, 2010
    Reno, NV
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Country:
    United States
    There are several population centers (if you can even call them that) that aren't included in the Reno MSA, even though they're 20-30 minutes away.

    Several towns are included in the Combined Statistical Area, but that isn't as useful of a statistic in this case since CSAs are usually decently larger than the MSA in spread out areas like Northern Nevada. The CSA would also include Fernley, Fallon, Carson City, and Minden-Gardnerville. That puts it at roughly 500k.

    That still puts us at smaller CSA than most other MSAs in the league. We don't need to go smaller just yet. Let's make sure it's successful in my tiny neck of the woods before making a gamble on the Bahamas
     
  3. athletics68

    athletics68 Member+

    Dec 12, 2006
    San Diego & San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Country:
    United States
    Can you really count people on the smaller islands? I mean will they be regular visitors to Nassau for games?
     
    GalaxyKoa repped this.
  4. fighting muskie

    Mar 30, 2016
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    This Bahamas team is just the kind of thing that the NASL would want.
     
    hipityhop and Sandon Mibut repped this.
  5. Balerion

    Balerion Member+

    Aug 5, 2006
    Somerville, MA
    Country:
    United States
    No.
     
    GalaxyKoa repped this.
  6. GalaxyKoa

    GalaxyKoa Member+

    Jul 18, 2007
    North County
    Club:
    Los Angeles
    Country:
    United States
    You're being disingenuous. Turks and Caicos to Nassau is about 420 miles, which if you create a zone that large for Reno, it would include Portland, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Las Vegas and Boise (as well as everything inbetween) Havana to Nassau is about 340 miles, Dominican Republic to Nassau is about 635 miles. You're using an outrageous metric. The Reno MSA, as @matbluvenger points out, doesn't even include some populations centers within half an hour drive. An MSA is an eminently reasonable measure of a region where a team can expect to draw from. Not perfect but reasonable.

    Besides, it's not a trivial thing to island hop between the islands of the Bahamas, either. It's 120 miles between the island that Nassau is on (New Providence which has about 250k) and the next most populated island (Grand Bahama with about 50k). You can't just drive that either. You either have to take a 13 hour ferry from Freeport to Nassau for $120 round trip which has limited sailing dates or fly a 45 minute flight for much more than that $120. I'm sure if you own a pilot or a boat, you could do it quicker and cheaper.

    Ultimately, if you put a team in Nassau, you're not really going to get people travelling en-mass from any of the other islands. It's pretty much just that 250k on New Providence. That's an incredibly small pool of fans.

    All worthy questions. I don't know the answer but it wasn't something I was addressing. I just think that at 250k, you're far too small to operate a team in the USL.

    Their national team is tied for worst in the world in the FIFA rankings (they have zero points) and would do even worse than the Bermuda Hogges did year ago in a much weaker USL. They'd have to bring in significant foreign players so they'd not always be on the bottom of the table. Civic and national pride alone doesn't sell tickets. Even Puerto Rico averaged under 5k with a MUCH larger and centrally located population. Even if they were able to get Wilmington levels of support (2-3k a game) that surely isn't enough to maintain with the rising salaries and extra travel costs of the USL.

    It will be doomed for failure, though it won't happen. If a bunch of Caribbean teams want to create a Caribbean league, they should go at it on their own, but the economics for that likely don't make sense either.
     
    Salvadanish repped this.
  7. catfish9

    catfish9 Member

    Jul 14, 2011
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Country:
    United States
    I was joking about Turks, dominican etc. I just think you are pointing at one stat and immediately dismissing this idea. There are so many things that will make it a success or failure other than population.
     
  8. Balerion

    Balerion Member+

    Aug 5, 2006
    Somerville, MA
    Country:
    United States
    There are definitely other factors. Unfortunately, all of them indicate that Bahamas USL would be an abject failure.
     
  9. Sporting Real

    Sporting Real Member+

    Jun 29, 2011
    Kansas City
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Country:
    United States
    The idea is a little out there right now. But this also proves why the Caribbean needs a large, regional league.
     
    Blando13 and oneeyedfool repped this.
  10. Salvadanish

    Salvadanish Member

    Sep 14, 2014
    Portland, Oregon
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    In addition to the geographic realities described above, the other major difference in Nassau/Bahamas is that their average level of income is likely a fraction of that in any metro area in North America. Between that and the limited population, any ticket revenue will be far from viable.

    A more realistic alternative might be to start a invitational tournament for any clubs in the Caribbean or Gulf of Mexico region, similar to what was tried in Hawaii several years ago. Probably still a long shot in terms of commercial success, but to me that sounds like a more fun way to mix soccer and tourism.
     
  11. catfish9

    catfish9 Member

    Jul 14, 2011
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Country:
    United States
    What's the population of Monaco? How is their little club doing right now? (relax! I'm being an antagonist)
     
  12. GalaxyKoa

    GalaxyKoa Member+

    Jul 18, 2007
    North County
    Club:
    Los Angeles
    Country:
    United States
    To be the protagonist:

    Average Ligue 1 attendance this season: 20,434
    Average Monaco attendance this season: 8,936 (lowest in the league)

    Monaco GDP per capita: $165,871
    Bahamas GDP per capita: $22,817

    Monaco density: 48,466 people/sq mi
    Bahamas density: 65.3 people/sq mi

    Sponsorship/prize/TV money for Ligue 1 = $$$
    Sponsorship/prive/TV money for Champions League = $$$$$
    Sponsorship/prive/TV money for USL = almost nothing

    No passport check going from France or Italy to Monaco. The entire Cote d'Azur (about 2 million people) in the general area. Monaco is not an island. Train travel in France is extensive and fast, and airfare within Europe is similarly quick. The longest trip would probably be to Guingamp which is a 12 hour drive, a 10 hour train trip, or a 3 hour flight (which includes stops). Shortest trip from Nassau would be to Orlando which is a 1.5 hour flight if you get it direct. No option to do anything other than fly. Closest for Monaco would be a 30 minute bus/train ride to Nice. Marseilles is a 2.5 hour drive.

    Verdict: Not comparable. Saying "I'm being an antagonist" doesn't mean your argument doesn't have to have merit.
     
  13. catfish9

    catfish9 Member

    Jul 14, 2011
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Country:
    United States
    I wasn't making any sort of argument. I was literally trying to ruffle feathers of people like you - yet explicitly state such so it was blatantly obvious. It still worked. I laughed and you spent time looking up meaningless stats.
     
  14. oneeyedfool

    oneeyedfool Member+

    Nov 17, 2012
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Country:
    United States
    My man blueballs69 had it first again

     
  15. athletics68

    athletics68 Member+

    Dec 12, 2006
    San Diego & San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Country:
    United States
    Interesting. If USL is moving in, does that preclude them from being an eventual landing spot for MLS should Miami not work out?
     
  16. matbluvenger

    matbluvenger Member+

    Aug 2, 2010
    Reno, NV
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Country:
    United States
    I'm pretty sure he's explicitly said it won't happen.

    And regarding Vegas getting a team: great! I remember NASL rumors a couple years back and would have been bummed if we weren't in the same league. Not that we need any more excuses, but Reno-Vegas rivalries are fun
     
  17. mikehurst21

    mikehurst21 Member

    Oklahoma City Energy FC
    United States
    Nov 6, 2013
    Moore Oklahoma
    Club:
    --other--
    Country:
    United States
  18. VBCity72

    VBCity72 Member

    Aug 17, 2014
    Virginia Beach
    Club:
    Plymouth Argyle FC
    Country:
    United States
    Hopefully they will be given a real identity like Swope Park or Bethlehem instead of S2 based out of Tacoma.
     
    aetraxx7 repped this.
  19. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Olympia
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Country:
    France
    The article posted above indicates they will be rebranded. Stadium to open for the 2020 season.
     
  20. mikehurst21

    mikehurst21 Member

    Oklahoma City Energy FC
    United States
    Nov 6, 2013
    Moore Oklahoma
    Club:
    --other--
    Country:
    United States
  21. athletics68

    athletics68 Member+

    Dec 12, 2006
    San Diego & San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Country:
    United States
    matbluvenger repped this.
  22. matbluvenger

    matbluvenger Member+

    Aug 2, 2010
    Reno, NV
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Country:
    United States
    Yes, make Vegas and Fresno happen! Reno is so far away from everybody else. Fresno would be an easy roadtrip and Reno sports fans are already experienced in traveling to Vegas to stomp their sorry excuse of a college!
     
  23. mikehurst21

    mikehurst21 Member

    Oklahoma City Energy FC
    United States
    Nov 6, 2013
    Moore Oklahoma
    Club:
    --other--
    Country:
    United States
  24. catfish9

    catfish9 Member

    Jul 14, 2011
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Country:
    United States
    So Vegas is inching closer to reality (vote on 7/19 for stadium lease) and another team on west coast is staffing up - see link below. Assume that is Fresno?

    http://uslsoccer.teamworkonline.com/teamwork/jobs/jobs.cfm/Sales-and-Marketing?supcat=4047#113805

    Assuming all team return. Add in Nashville, that gives USL 33 team correct? Do we see 3 conferences of 11? Home and Away would be 20 games. Could then play one game against half of other conferences for 31 games which is one less than current 32.
     

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