Post-match: USA vs. T&T - June 22, 2019 - Gold Cup

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by schrutebuck, Jun 22, 2019.

  1. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Wouldn't mind having Jozy on my side in a bar fight.
     
  2. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm sure Dortmund loved seeing the golden goose running around cricket pitches with USL bench players.
     
  3. CMeszt

    CMeszt Member+

    Farewell Sweet Prince
    Jan 9, 2004
    Gentrification's Apex.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Heck, the turf in St. Paul on Tuesday looked like shit.
     
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  4. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
  5. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    https://sbisoccer.com/2019/06/report-johannsson-linked-with-move-to-sounders
    https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019/06/20/philadelphia-union-sign-forward-andrew-wooten-2-bundesliga

    I feel like the anti-MLS commentary tends to ignore that players tend to flow out when cycles begin, flow back as qualifying gets rolling, then flow back out either before or after the world cup. coming back here can have family reasons but can also be as simple as let me put myself right under the coach's nose so he can't ignore me anymore.
     
  6. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    fwiw you had the pro brooks people arguing his 3 goals in several years were part of his sales pitch but you see other people (and zimmerman too) can also contribute in that way.
     
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  7. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    here are the facts. in 14 qualifying they were eliminated in the second round finishing behind guyana. in 10 and 18 they were bottom of the hex (with 1 and 2 wins respectively). back in 06 they were a big deal, and they have a resonance from 90 and 18 cutting each way. but on the past 3 cycles they are at best a "yoyo" team in what would be the hex's relegation zone if it had one. bad as we got we are above that without fail.

    similarly, in 17 they missed the gold cup entirely, and in 19 they are out group round.

    cuba and barbados might be a little glib, but they are like a semifinal team or the last team in the hex. they are not of the same quality as the top 4-5 teams in the hex. they have not been to the world cup in a dozen years. they are not even close. they do not win gold cup or finish high. if you toss out the loss as an outlier, we should expect to win at home and put several in on them.

    you spend a lot of time tearing down jamaica based on last cycle -- heck, our promise would be a mixed bag on that basis -- only to acknowledge teams rise and fall and not really get into which teams are showing hints of the real competition this cycle. Canada beat TnT 2-0 before this tourney. Jamaica beat us and now Honduras. It's not definitive and a lot ends up owing to the draw, but I wouldn't put my money on TnT being the same type of team this cycle.

    it's kind of like what I posted on Copa America. if you look at who is currently where in the standings, it puts our wins and ties and losses in context. to me you will know the worm has turned, and the unit is right, when the high end results change. this is taking joy in punching downward, despite the loss it would have been true last cycle just the same. we should win this at home. not even close. you bank that, take some emotional joy in revenge, but rationally it doesn't scream to me this is the unit to punch better upward. to me this feels a little like the people celebrating 4-0 over Panama before we went to Couva. this is not the type of performance that needs to change. it's the away games, the Mexico/CR games. you will only know if that sort of change is happening as this progresses.
     
  8. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No I’m not. I’m talking about international level. Mexico club isn’t Mexico National team. CCL isn’t international play. We also are talking about hold up play not scoring. Those are two different things.
     
  9. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    my point is not so much certitude about which teams will rise and fall as the vague comment that it tends to happen combined with "and you have to see what's happening now in that context" going forward. if you tie chile and peru and beat bolivia and ecuador, and then copa america plays out like it has, those results don't say that much. similarly, even if TnT remains a back of hex team -- or if they in fact slip like i think they might -- then in hindsight this will be light on real meaning other than revenge. which, we shouldn't have lost in the first place. does putting 6 past a team you have routinely put 4 past at home say that much?

    the difference between us and a good team/federation is we are sufficiently shortsighted and greedy for results this doesn't get context. if england plays iceland next time and whoops their butt like they should, is this taken as some earth-moving fixture that confirms their direction and lineup? or would they save that for beating france?
     
  10. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I spent 4 minutes writing that post, you're the one bashing T&T for not qualifying for the Hex, then saying Barbados/Cuba should be praised for "making semi-finals", aka failing at the same hurdle as T&T. You're the one devaluing the fact that T&T have reached heights Jamaica never has (qualifying for the World Cup) and devaluing their 2018 Hex appearance. In 2014, Jamaica was a tough out for a struggling Mexico. In 2018, T&T knocked out the struggling US.

    Jamaica and T&T are the top two Caribbean teams in the region. Neither is better than the top 4/5 Hex teams. Both have yo-yo'ed back and forth between making the Hex and not making the Hex in the last decade-plus.

    Jamaica has the distinction of grinding out results the last two Gold Cups against the USA and Mexico, pulling off upsets on each team in 2015/2017 respectively. Clearly, they are a better team than Trinidad this cycle.

    "Taking joy in punching downward" is something that has been denied to this team for almost 2 years, and it's an absolutely vital step on the pathway to regional and global competitiveness. You can't challenge Costa Rica/Mexico at the summit of CONCACAF without first beating teams you should beat. Similarly, you can't challenge the rest of the world without first beating Costa Rica/Mexico and establishing regional supremacy.

    You cannot skip steps. Beat the teams you should beat comprehensively. Then beat the teams you should beat. Then beat/play evenly the top team(s) in the region. And so on.
     
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  11. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is where you go astray. Nobody is claiming an Earth-shattering victory. Nobody thinks that Berhalter's faults are all gone.

    Myself and a few others are simply pushing back on the complete dismissal of this game. A result, once again, that was not expected. And if an unexpected loss/tie is illuminating of faults within the proper context, then an unexpectedly-dominant win should be allowed to provide comparable insight into the team's positives.
     
  12. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    I'd prefer Wes.
     
  13. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Long was the worst of the bunch in his half against Venezuela, but was awarded a starting spot. His positioning and decision making has been quite questionable in these two games. It is just a matter of time.
     
  14. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Interesting that my best buddy @yurch10 hasn't made one single post in this thread. I mean, given his prolific posting in every other USMNT thread, surely he has something to say, right? Or, given their similar posting style, maybe his alter ego officespace has taken control of his computer.
     
  15. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Well, I've learned my lesson from you...ill simply be shouted down if I didn't watch the game! Which I didn't. But happy to hear about a good performance, especially from CP and McKennie it seems. Obviously won't be watching til the squad turns over.

    However, as I've said before, this gold cup doesn't mean much, just like the 17 gold cup didn't. It's odd that the squad selection has focused on winning it, but alas, I defer to the almighty egg (and you), who clearly know more than me!!

    From player ratings I saw, it seems like starting 11 mainstays Ream and MB were the worst on the pitch. But they'll continue on, again, just like 17.
     
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  16. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Great news! I expect that we will not read nearly as much from you since you won't be watching any USMNT games for a long time! There's a lot of turnover that needs to happen before you come back.
     
  17. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Lol...shouted down by ME? I mean, if you don't watch the games then it's pretty hard to criticize the team's play.
     
  18. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    I don't know what that means, but sounds funny and witty!

    Really, my only demands are drop Ream and newly minted MLS all Star lion MB from the squad. Not hard.

    And if ur panties are constantly in a bunch about me, as it seems, why are you asking my opinion about a game (and commenting three times), in a post-game forum, of a game that I didn't watch, which you knew I didn't watch cuz ur apparently obsessed w me, when you get upset when I do comment in said forum?

    Such a ridiculous move all around, I almost respect it.
     
  19. CMeszt

    CMeszt Member+

    Farewell Sweet Prince
    Jan 9, 2004
    Gentrification's Apex.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    That's "2018-2019 Premier League Starter Tim Ream" to you, bro.
     
  20. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yurch left us in the lurch. :D
     
  21. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I didn't know that you were one of the few who had said you wouldn't watch games. How could I even think that given how much you posted before and after each of the prior games under Berhalter!? I just expected that you'd have some sh*t to talk. Ya know, MLS blah blah blah, so-and-so would have scored 3, Egg is an idiot because we would have scored 57 against this hardly-a-team if he had called up (insert injured Euro player) and dumped "The System". How much money did Garber have on this game? Something like that.

    Inquiring minds have to know: If Ream and Bradley aren't on a roster, is that the cue for you to start watching again? What if Omar is there? What if any of them are on the roster, but none start? Where do Zardes and Morris fit in your equation? Lima? Roldan?
     
  22. Bluecat82

    Bluecat82 Member+

    Feb 24, 1999
    Minneapolis, MN
    Club:
    Minnesota United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What part of , "He was born in the US" don't you get? He IS an American kid.

    So he speaks English with a funny accent. Big deal, so do my friends from Utah.
     
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  23. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dempsey speaks English with a funny accent. You probably do, too, Mr. Minnesota. ;)
     
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  24. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Them’s fightin’ words!
     
  25. Bluecat82

    Bluecat82 Member+

    Feb 24, 1999
    Minneapolis, MN
    Club:
    Minnesota United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Minnesota after my college years in Utah.

    My accent may be about as unique as Brad Friedel's...everybody thinks I talk funny.
     
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