I forgot about this..... Let's limit it to Trapp and I will clarify. Trapp has glaring weaknesses and his so called strengths dont translate to this level. His best attribute is his "leadership" and passing, yet most of his passes are square or backwards and his completion rate forward isnt great. I've posted clips in other threads and can track those down if you want them. The weakness is that he is a defensive mid who cant defend. Teams turned him in circles in the middle of the field and is beaten when isolated 1v1. That ends up being a huge drain on the rest of the team. McKennie and Adams were forced to play deeper, central defenders are put under pressure and if outside backs are beaten or if he gets isolated out wide it results in a shot, cross or PK. Hopefully that satisfies your threshold for analysis. I'll happily find supporting evidence for all that Ive stated here. We should probably create a thread for him given that he has been a near auto starter and made captain while struggling mightily.
Cristian Roldan Characteristics + Strengths Passing Strong Finishing Strong Long shots Strong Aerial Duels Strong Holding on to the ball Strong Concentration Strong Tackling Strong Blocking the ball Strong - Weaknesses (Player has no significant weaknesses) OK. So this isn't really true, but Acosta & Delgado (and Trapp to some extent) taking minutes ahead of Roldan is a travesty. Edit... And Bradley
Delgado seems to have no problem with Trapp at all. I guess he has to cover the 6 when Trapp is out in the US left side helping defend because everybodys rock star Robinson is getting a new one drilled in yet another body part. Funny how we got drilled for 4 goals by Colombia with Bradley playing instgead of Trapp but strangely nobody else can seem to score on us other than running over Robinson, when Trapp is playing. I still am waiting to see a midfield of Trapp(6), Delgado(8), Adams(8) and Mckennie.(10). It would be great to see against England or Italy if playoffs allow. When somebody comes along who plays the 6 better than Trapp, I"ll be happy to put Trapp on the bench. I just haven't seen it yet. People seem to have these players they project as the 6 without ever having seen them play the actual position. Bring 'em on. p.s. I noticed on re-watching that Bradley didn't just get burned by Falcao on the 3rd Colombia goal but the 4 goal that gets blamed on Yedlin and Acosta wasn't actually Acosta's fault because Acosta had to pick up the guy who was about to crash the box because Bradley had failed to track him, which meant Acosta couldn't stay with the guy who had the assist to the guy who beat Yedlin.
Delgado and Roldan are not similar players. Roldan's game is Weston's. I rate Roldan highly. Delgado's competition would be Parks but Parks' positioning on defense doesn't match Delgado's altho his final third offense is better. Roldan is sort of the opposite of Delgado. Delgado plays team tackle, Roldan puts in individual tackles. Delgado can't finish; Roldan can. Roldan cannot pass thru midfield; Delgado can. Acosta and Adams are similar players. I rate Adams, not Acosta who is a slob. I hope people start looking for complementary players who deliver the whole package as a team. Weston and Adams haven't looked good together when playing on the same team. Try adding Delgado or Parks and notice the difference.
I kind of agree with everything you say here. Still if I have one midfield spot (I don;t care where it is, 6, 8, 10, winger, whatever...) I take Roldan over Delgado (I don't hate Delgado at all BTW).
The problem is that you will not have anybody passing thru midfield. If you told me Parks is in the starting lineup and an additional mid is required, I'd take Roldan over Delgado because the function of passing thru mid would be satisfied by Parks. Adams runs thru mid(like Acosta, Nagbe) but doesn't pass thru mid. Ditto Roldan and Weston. If Adams is playing, we don't need Acosta nor Nagbe because Adams runs thru mid (vide Adams againstg Paraguay - assisted by pass thru mid by Delgado) or Acosta's goal against Colombia or look at chara's goal today for Portland against Slt Lake. One of the interesting discrepancies in life is the difference between BS posters' rating of Delgado and managers' ratings of Delgado when you consider how much effort they put into avoiding his side at Toronto - or USMNT for that matter. I watched Nguyen pick a ball off the feet of wonder boy fonz today (lafc v Vancouver) and had a chuckle remembering all the fan boys saying Nguyen couldn't defend as a reason he wasn't picked for WC squad 2014. Agendas rule.
The midfield was completely ineffective against Peru. Your comments on these players are delusional. Your proposed midfield is forcing players onto the field at the expense of better players. You realize that with that four man midfield, there are only two attacking spots for Wood, Weah, Sargent, Pulisic, Amon, etc? Why do you need a better dmid to replace Trapp when he isnt a dmid. The guy can't defend at this level. The obvious answer is pushing one or both of Adam's and McKennie deeper. My back up would be Canouse. He is much stronger defensively, would turn the ball over less and I'm sure his back passes would be ok. The obvious challenger for Delgado is Hyndman. Adam's, mckennie and hyndman (fine with Delgado there if he beats EH out) is sounder defensively, has the ability to posses the ball and transition forward and leaves room for 3 attacking players. I'm not a fan of Bradley or Acosta, but going after 21 yo left back is just immature... I'd same the same about going after the others as well. The kid is far from a mature player and has enough positives to be patient with him to see if he can round out his game.
I think the wise approach on older players ageing out is they are pastured at cycle start and called upon if there is a specific need detected from trying younger options unsuccessfully. If done that way, they don't squeeze younger players out of opportunities, or their chance to shine. If the younger players fail to shine, then you circle back around and dial their digits. The virtue is that you can wait and see how the older players hold up over time, or whether they are in form, before calling them back in. If you just call up Mike Bradley now, and start re-integrating him, and maybe don't even demand high performance, then you're playing a seniority game and just taking the performance or injury risk later, having built the team with them in the foundation. Whereas if they are only brought back in later on performance, they have to earn it, and you can use the process as a check against old age. You see if they hold up before you call them rather than after you've made them part of the unit. Nope, sorry, not a snob, plenty of American players have plied their trade in Scotland to our benefit. Pure numbers. He's started maybe half of Hibernian's games, with a few more subs. I think that is enough if he dreams of breaking into Scotland and staying there. But he is 22 and the clock on his career is ticking. He is starting to be bypassed by subsequent generations of midfielders. I don't think being an every other game platoon starter is turbocharging his career. It's better than Bournemouth treats him but is that really saying much. I think you want to know what your 30 is more than your XI "because Robinson." Robinson demonstrates the pitfalls of getting too excited too fast about new players, and then getting blinders about any other options. You're better off right now finding 4 guys who can play a position well and figure out later on which ones consistently do it.
Funny but he's been one of the worst DMs when actually called in. You don't just tot up pluses and minuses and then ignore their NT performances. To me the scouting is a foot in the door -- the equivalent of a resume or portfolio -- and then I care most how they play with the NT.
My two cents, I have not seen a real 8 yet out of this bunch. I think that leaves the door open to the next generation of U20s, surprise dual nationals, some MLS player takes off. Who should start for now is thus a comparative exercise in damage limitation. Which one has the most DM-like substance til we find someone specialist to the spot. My two cents with this pool I'd be favoring the attacking mids in formation and choice, make the other team defend us instead. I'd rather have Pulisic/Green/??/Weah and have teams sh*tting their pants trying to defend, than a bunch of mediocre DMs dominating the formation and choice on the theory they will stop opposing teams. And if you're concerned about defense, ok, you don't stay on the field if you don't hustle and defend.
Not sure what to make of your first paragraph I suggested focusing on potential/younger players filling in with guys in 24-28 range. Over a year ago I argued that instead naming an interim head coach, we should have selected an olympic coach and he would have begun building that team with as many 3-5 "over age" players. I don think it is ideal to get rid of all the experienced players as the drop off in over all talent becomes too big and hard to assess players. I dont know how you determine if any of the three midfielders that played against Peru are any use to the program because collectively they were so poor. I've seen enough of Trapp and Acosta to think we should look elsewhere before giving them more shots, but wouldnt mind seeing Delgado get a shot with other more competent players around them. Do you watch games or just use numbers? Also, they way you portray EH's numbers is misleading. He has started 7 of 12 games since joining Hibs. His last sub appearance was on Sept 1 (so all came within less than a month of joining the team). He started 4 of 5 games between Sept 15 and Oct 6 and started this past weekend vs Celtic. So he has worked his way into the team and has been a regular starter since the sept intl break. He is still working on fitting in with side as it isnt a great stylistic fit. He got solid reviews and his first goal a before the break and did ok against Celtic. He still needs to raise his level but showed better than his last loan to the SPL. Nobody has staked a claim to the role he would play and his current likely competition should be guys like Delgado and Parks who havent gotten much of shot either. You want to have an idea of your XI because you want at least a handful of them on the field when you play a game. You want guys to start building partnerships and understandings and when you give new guys shots, you want to set them up to succeed with decent players around them. Six subs are allowed in friendlies and used correctly, a coach can get a good look at 14-17 players and try out many combinations. The only problem with Robinson is expecting him to be able to handle Brazil and Colombia without making mistakes. IF he could do that, he wouldnt be on loan and would be starting at Everton. We currently dont have other worthwhile options there other than moving a CB out wide. It is a position we have consistently been weak at and one where a real coach will need to show patience with Robinson, find ways to cover for him in the meantime and try out more defensive minded CBs in the spot. If we dont have 4 guys who are good enough (or have the potential) to play a position at this level, we shouldnt spend time looking for them. We wasted a lot of minutes on players over the last two years who are never going to be able to help us get to the next level. We didnt need to give minutes to sweat to know he couldnt cut it. Do people really think we should give him minutes?
Funny you determine that based on one match, which was his debut, where he played the 6 to Acosta's 8, everything was falling apart around him, and he still played fine in a vacuum. The only other game he played enough to get any sort of read on him was in out of season January camp where he played a-wing which is like his 5th best position. Now let's discard the guy on move on to the next? That's myopic to the least. You're going to have players falling thru the cracks, as Roldan has so far, with your attitude. Roldan deserves at least 2 more starts, and as an 8, or one of 2 cm's in front of a d-mid, and not in out of season January camp, until we can get a read on him, and if he doesn't perform move on to other standouts at the club level as he's been for years now. You keep on saying this -- that you care most about how they play for the national team -- well then call for that to actually happen for a significant degree -- that is play for the national team.
Roldan is a decent passer through midfield. He diagonal long switches and short switches to the corner. I can't purport to seeing him dump over the top or play thru the middle to the fw's frequently. He is adept at marauding runs off the dribble. Important if the opponent is going to pressure you. Otherwise you're going to turn the ball over and not exploit the space in front. There's a lot of formations and styles that can make Roldan work. He can play even as high as the 10/8 in a 433 if you're pressing because he can win the ball (team and individual, his positioning is excellent) and exploit space in front as aforementioned. He's shown his versatility with Seattle. Not that I think he should be CR90 w/ the national team. That's probably only Pulisic, Weah, McKennie, Adams, and Miazga for me. There are alternatives in cm and don't know if he's ideal in a 50/50 game or 60/40 possession. He can play gradual possession and be mindful to thwart counters really well. Him and Lletget together could be great as complements against teams the U.S. are clearly supposed to beat. Lletget would provide the incisive passes, creative dribbling on the wing, and interplay.
He got 5 caps in roughly a year and change. He did not stand out. On to the next candidate. I am enforcing rather than departing from my mantra. To be somewhat fair, depending who the next coach is, maybe he gets one further look. I will be interested if the new coach treats Sarachan's experiments as definitive, or instead reboots the whole tryout process for himself. If the new coach treats Sarachan like the experimenter, then Roldan is outside looking in for a while, and his window whether you like it or not will be Januarys or Gold Cup if he's lucky. You can knock it all you want but that is the opening for marginal MLS to show their stuff, is off brand friendlies or the long Gold Cup camp. Better than nothing. If the new coach wants to run his own ruler over the players, it'll reboot and Roldan probably gets 1-2 more games. So will everyone else. I think at least part of the reason I respond as I do is my fish college season I was cranky I didn't start the very first game. I went in the second game down 3-0, tackled anything that moved, by the end of the game it was 3-2 and we'd almost come back. I started the next week and the vast majority after that for the years I played. You get your chance, you go out there and take it. I keep hearing people arguing for this player who looked anonymous, or that one who looked over his head. Is that who you really pull out of these games, is the ones who made no or bad impressions? All I am looking for is make some plays and wow me. Granted, you have to keep up your guard for players like Robinson who either have uneven skill sets or fool you a little. But even then what I am looking for is something we can use as opposed to some excuse to advocate for wallpaper or incompetence. Get a goal, hit a nice pass, tackle the heck out of someone, show me something. If they can't do it at home to Peru's A/B team how the heck are they doing it in Azteca.
You'll need to convince @juvechelsea who says https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/ro...-osorio-vermes.2083233/page-174#post-37209860
A cool Roldan play was against Brazil with Delgado putting in the initial press, the ball rotates and you don't see Roldan again until the end when he puts in a beautiful cross which causes a bad rebound to the place Acosta should be but over-ran. They made a gif of it on MLS soccer site as one of the few moments of inspired play. Juvechelsea wants to see something. Well, there it is.
That's a disingenuous response in multiple ways. He has 5 caps, 2 of which he played more than double-digit minutes to make any sort of evaluation, and 1 was at d-mid + his debut. So really, that's next to no info to make a determination. As far as the point about u-20's, you're invoking the conspiracy theory buzz-word for a basic alternate explanation as to why he didn't play then but could well be good enough now like: he hadn't turned pro yet or developed later. You're confirming a bias with those two arguments. That much is clear. Make a decision very early, and stick with it, not being open to new info. The long-term success of the national team is more important.
Roldan convinced me early on in a game against Portland when Nagbe got the ball off him and Roldan pursued Nagbe all over the pitch, finally running him out of play on the opposite side of the pitch, neutralizing the turnover. He's not as slow as he looks from that trademark slow jog you see off the ball, believe me. He has an uncanny feel for the box in the attacking end which is what convinces me about his value to the USMNT. We might find guys to reproduce what he does in midfield but not his threat to make something happen in the box in the final third. Unfortunately, pedestrian managers look at mids as mids and fwds as fwds, etc. They miss overlaps and special qualities very easily.
Would you pick an 8 who does everything a mid should do at a 7 out of 10 level or would you pick one who does part of the job at a 10/10 level and other things at a 5/10 level?
Is Roldan "the answer"? Maybe not, but who is. Acosta? Degado? Bradley? Trapp? Face it, we don't have the answer. I too was disappointed in Rodan's...TWO...starts. He didn't impress there. You know who also didn't impress in those games. Adams. But he's anointed. McKennie has had one good match and the rest, meh. Should we drop him? Big picture, Adams and Mckennie are probably the starters, despite their mediocre Nats showing. Good. But they weren't there for Peru, and won't always be for others. We need depth, so who is it? Roldan has 3 straight years as one of the best Americans in MLS. He's 23. He should be getting a serious run out. Instead we see Acosta who was run out of Dallas. Delgado who can't even nail down a spot for Toronto. Bradley, no comment. and....Sarachan's, son? Look, Roldan may only be the next Bedoya. A guy who you really don't want starting, but...he's better than the other guys. That's where we are at still. Maybe if we give him a serious chance he can rise above it. I am not one for conspiracy theories usually, but I'm feeling some USSF bullshit here. Where were these guys...? Acosta: IMG product, 18 caps at U17, 4 at U18, 15 at u20 Delgado: IMG Product, 4 caps at u17, 1 at u18, 5 at u20 Bradley: speaks for itself Trapp: 2 caps at u18, 21 at u20 These are US Soccer guys. Roldan was Gatorade Player of the Year at his public HS...not at the IMG. Then went to...college....the horror! Maybe USsoccer should stop trying to convince themselves they were right about 16 year olds 8 years ago, and actually watch some damn MLS games in the present and see what they see.
How many minutes does told roldan have? I agree he didn't look great, but I hate when people take a 70 minute sample and say they aren't good enough. Wasn't his only real "opportunity" during the all important Gold Cup where we sat every young player in favor of Bradley Jozy and Howard? I even think Chandler and Morales should be brought back, despite many more games to "prove" themselves. If anything, the fact that Roldan wasn't part of the mess of qualifying seems like it'd be a positive for him.
Actually thought Roldan was solid in his GC start, which was in central midfield. Hopefully, he gets more minutes in Nations League. Trapp without Bradly did a good job. Few of the goals against came through his area. He isn't a lock starter, but deserves to be in the mix.
"Coffee is for closers." Marginal players trying to break in usually get 10-30 minutes a game, 45 minutes tops. You don't get a start and 90 minutes, maybe a few starts in a row, to work through kinks. You get a look, if you impress in practices/a game, you get another one. You show something, you stick around. You don't, you disappear. The blindspot in so many of these arguments is they seem oblivious of each other, indifferent to the rest of the pool. There are several people who can play the slot. There are in fact several people on here pushing for their own favorite. There are only so many games. Only a few can win out and become regulars. They are trying people and my hope is they let performance rather than pecking order guide it. And IMO Roldan has done nothing to emerge from the herd. Others have made at least a little something out of chances, Adams, McKennie, Acosta. I am pro using this part of the cycle to give chances widely. But ultimately it's a team of 11 starters and 23 players and you have to earn your way into it. The January camp is for projects. The youth teams are for projects. The senior team is how do you look now. And if there is any room for players who are still taking off, it would be more for someone like Sargent who occasionally shows a bright spark, and not for anonymous players. Sorry, that's a dime a dozen, you can rattle off a list of MNT players who looked OK and didn't embarrass themselves but also didn't stand out. Those are the ones who generally disappear next call sheet and someone else gets their chance.
You're being dismissive of that group, but Adams has shown something as a 6 and also had a nice run against Paraguay that set up a PK. Delgado occasionally makes a really nice outlet ball. McKennie has a nice goal and occasionally shows something on the ball. Trapp occasionally makes a really smart positioning play. Acosta had a crunching tackle and a hustling goal. Bradley has all the history. Personally I wish none of the above but you have to field someone and when you're trying to push someone else over this bunch, you kind of need to point out something memorable they did. Each one of these guys I can point to something (or things) memorable they have done in the past year. A coach at this level is looking for can they handle this level of play and make something special happen. Make some special plays and put yourself in the mix. Otherwise it's why on earth should he be anything but the 7th or 8th option at his position, with all that implies in terms of how often you get called in. I am not a Trapp fan, but I can see the use of a calm mid who knows positioning. I think he is overrated, but I can see how he fits on a roster. It is not a USSF conspiracy. I think in a more competitive environment he goes the way of Parkhurst and Boswell and other smart but unathletic players. But right now defensive midfield looks like mediocre mush. Among mediocre mush he stands as much a chance as anyone, particularly, unfortunately, if his coach is hired as the NT coach. Roldan did play a couple U20 games, he is not some complete outsider. He missed out on the team to a lot of the same players back in this conversation.