USA vs Nigeria U20 Women's World Cup Quarter Final Su-7/25/2010 [R]

It could just be that this particular age cohort is not as talented as the one just above it and (possibly) others to follow..

But among the gloom and doom, riddle me this: What is the purpose of youth tournaments? To win or to find players for the next level?

Take a look at the German 2006 U20 WWC roster that went out in the quarterfinals (a 4-1 loss to the USA). Do any of those names look familiar to you? Do you think the early exit in the 2006 U20 WWC bespoke doom for the future of the German women's national team?

Of course, I do think Meinert is a better coach than Ellis but that's a different topic.

 

The results of the world cup has nothing to do with the talents of this age group. To the contrary, the age group happens to be very talented and deep. Problem with US system is the people at the top. The coaches sometimes base the selection on hypes, accolades, politics and not necessarily a players talent. How can you use the youth syetem to pick and nuture young talents when diversity in style is not allowed or even understood by people in charge of the teams. Do you really believe that Jill picked the best players available to her or the ones she preferred? Until soccer is treated the way it is done in most countries where a players talent and freedeom to be creative is nutured regardless of which college or club the players play for, it will be down hill for the US teams.
US players are not followed regularly and monitored by the federation nor do they help them develop. US system on the women side relies on players finding ways to develop on there own and then expect the poor ladies to compete. What does US soccer do for players like Leroux, Dunn, Dimartino, Noyola, McCarthy, Shorty, Morris e.t.c. outside camps? Not much. My hats off for all the girls and the hard work they put in the game to play at a high level while in college.

 

Does USA have any system in place where any of this present U-20 side are being groomed for Full WNT caps? Ellis seems to play a total different style to what Pia Sundhage wants to play come WWC in Germany. Germany play the same at all levels, as players come through age groups the German coach Nied will know during any tournement she sees how players could fit her team.

I couldnt care less wether the US maintains a #1 FIFA ranking 10 years from now, but alot of Americans take it for granted that this should be the case. Focusing on 4 year unbeaten freindly records mean squat, you cant progress this way. Mewis, Dunn, and maybe Leroux will figure with the full WNT in the future, but not for 2011. This tournement should have seen Noyola or Mewis playing mid field playmaker, with two forwards up top and WINGERS! Oppurtunity missed for Sudhage's system development.

Germany lose random non championship games all the time due to the nature of player development, yet come WWC or Euro times there ready to go. U-20 2006 German sqaud had multiple players that were going to be given a chance within there system, all USA had was Stephany Cox.

 

WRONG

FIFA do bone scans on the wrists of players that can give clear and acurate age assments of players. This was implemented just before the last male U-17 WC in Nigeria, causing more than half the nigerian squad to do a runner. They still made the final though

 

Can we not forget that these are kids out there? They are not professionals and this is all part of their development. They lost in penalty kicks - that does not erase the fact that Leroux scored 5 goals in a world championship without playing in the two final stages, a great accomplishment.

I agree with the poster above, losing is not always a bad thing. I think is a sign of development of women's soccer globally, which both US and non-US fans alike should be happy about. The US is no longer going to dominate every single competition at the youth levels, and so what? I think it's exciting that Nigeria has made it to the semifinals, the first time an African nation has done so. There has been some nice commentary on pitch invasion: http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2010/...m-take-a-big-step-forward-for-african-soccer/. Also, check out the Marta article, it gives some nice perspective on what females in other nations have to put up with just to compete.

 

I agree that winning youth championships is not the most important measuring stick for the U20 and U17 national programs, player development is, and the US system is developing players with weak technique and low soccer IQ. So there is a problem.

On you're other point, it is good for Africa to do well in FIFA tournaments, but I can't celebrate the triumph of Nigeria's quite-thuggish approach to the quarterfinal. For the same reason I wanted desperately for Spain to win in the men's WC final.

 

I don't know enough about the U20s, but my understanding of Tambi for example, at least at the club level, is that his strength is developing highly technical/smart players, even though his teams do not always win. Is the problem that these players are not being developed nationwide, or that they are not recognized in the national programs? Or that the incentive is not as great, say as in men's programs, to develop highly technical female players - it's not like you are going to be able to sell them for millions to a european soccer power (I'm thinking about the Ajax model).

As to your second point, that's fair enough.

 

My thoughts exactly!

There was nothing despicable about the booing. In fact, what's despicable is that some fans can't get over themselves enough to make rational comments after their favorite team loses. From what I could tell, the Nigerian fans were making the noises and booing not the the German spectators. So to attack the hosts for that is unfair and just plain wrong. On that note, nice to see the large number of Nigerian men out there sporting the Falconettes.

 

My opinion on the open forum mate.

Are they devastated for ever......... learn a lesson move on. Look at her before she shoots.
Will she be a bundle of emotions on her sleeve when she steps up to shoot another PK in a World Cup match some day.

My opinion.

 

Here, Here.........

Excellent post. Seems to be the same wicket at several age groups on the womens side.

Several have posted on full time professionals coaching. Cast my vote.

cheers

 

But you dont need full time coaching, you need continuity. From U-15 up to full senior, all girls NT's need to play the same system of play, with the senior coach keeping tabs on potentail talent to be fast tracked through the system for potential use in there teams.

You cant exspect players to play there best within ever changing formations and objectives with poor player development. If you check the players Involved in the teams for New Zealand's U-17 WWC all the core talent has flowed up to the U-20 playing the same systems just more developed. Has the USA done this, no.

Whats the point Identifying talents at 15, showcasing at U-17 to then throw it all away and start agian for the U-20 cycle? If they survive the U-17 to U-20 gap, and can impress in the U-20 WWC they then have to hope the senior level coach can fit her in to a new system she wont know once more. The only reason the US gets any talent comming to the senior level is due to the numbers of girls you have playing the game.

 

There have been posts in other threads that suggest that while Pia is involved in scouting players and giving great input in who is getting U23 looks, she is not interested in implementing a multi-tiered system of development across all ages. If that's how she wants to run things, then there won't be the same system/style played at all levels. And that's ok. Also, in the USA (both male & female teams) there is not one style or type of soccer. There are pages and pages and pages of posts on bigsoccer about "latin" influence, and Dutch influence, and German influence, etc.

There might not be a regimented plan for how players move through the Uxx ranks and get full WNT looks but clearly the cream rises to the top in many cases. As for Mewis, Dunn, Leroux not being in the 2011 plans, that's very likely. There are players ahead of them from previous U20 tournies and club soccer that may be better options. Is Mewis better than O'Hara? Or Nogueira? Or Cheney? Or ARod? Or Morgan? Is she close enough that she should step in front of them? Definitely not on the basis of this tournament. Leroux might be the one closest to being ready for the WNT.

I take it you didn't look very closely at the USA roster from 2006. Cheney. ARod. Heath. All three have Olympic Gold medals & many WNT caps. And several others that have gotten full WNT camp looks. But thanks for playing. And Cox is no slouch so don't slag.

Do you say the same thing when "big time" NCAA football players screw up? Or NCAA men's basketball players? In fact 7 of the top 10 NBA first round draft picks are the same age as these women (ie age eligible for this U20, were they female soccer players). Did you say "they're just kids" when they under (or over) achieved last season? Yes, this tournament is part of the players' development and I'm not totally slagging on players but this is the "big time," the world stage. And for the record, many of the players the USA team is playing against are professional players. Look at the squad lists.

Actually, here I am w/ Cheap Seats. Full time coaches at the Uxx women's level is what will provide more continuity through the program and greater ability to evaluate a large number of players. While I hope the earlier poster was right and that will come, I'm not going to hold my breath.

 

What's this "broom incident" that happened after the game?

 

Someone else said somewhere that the Nigerian player had taken one of the corner flags as a memento and the US staff member wanted to prevent her from taking it.

 

Coach Heinrichs did manage to guide USWNT in 2004 to a gold medal in Athens...

 

The US female system is so convoluted the implementation of a unified football ideology could take your players to levels of skill not seen before in the us. The scatter brain approach to creating your own style creates headachs for both WNT/MNT fans and coaches alike. "Why cant we keep the Ball", "why dont we have more soccer intelligence", "no we need bigger faster athletes", all common US soccer fans retorts after watching USA teams struggle in games.

Im sorry but do you see how long it takes for US players to develop to senior level? Between Heath, O'Hara, Nogueira, Cheney, A-rod, and Morgan the US has some of the best youth talent in the womens game, and yet without the WPS where would they be now? US players are losing ground on many future dangerous international WNT programs who give there youngsters focused positional/tactical international development at younger ages.

Im sorry I forgot how convincing the US Olympic run was. Both Cheney and Heath were game changers right? and A-Rod couldnt stop scoring. Until you win another WWC the Olympics is always going to be the sloppy seconds. Your PAN AM Games in Brazil squad was a collection of college soccer monsters, way stronger than that 2006 youth side, and they got smashed by a full strength Brazil side. Many of that Pan AM games squad were age ready for senior football then, but slow development means they are still nowhere near first team senior action.

PROFESSIONAL? Korea have a pro league but I read that the U-20's all play on one of ten acadamy sides in the whole country. Swiss girls play in mix of Germany (Semi pro) Europe (Semi Pro) and America. Ghana/Nigeria hmmm arent they lucky to even have a league system? Lets not kid our selves here USA still has the mecca of girls youth soccer tag.

Dont get confused with famous club names in relation to how they support the womens sides. Only 2 leagues are as pro as it gets WPS or Damallsvenskan, and look one of them is American.

 

agreed! the olympics run did give somewhat of false sense of security about the senior squad's future. the step up by hucles was the highlight, the rest can be evenly distributed as individual flashes contributing to the win. we stuck with pretty much the same lineup, and yes, we've had great friendly wins all around. let's take development seriously, and win on that battle. the: i'll-take-ten-capped-defenders-cause-i-don't-want-to-be-shamed-by-germany approach has to stop.

 

You know, I'd love to be able to agree w/ you completely -- except when a USA team does not win there is much gnashing of teeth & woe is us the world has caught up, we'll never win again silliness in the media & here.

And I think there is a bit of an exaggeration about how completely a team such as Germany integrates younger players onto the full WNT team. There are German fans who would claim that Neid holds onto the old warhorses (eg Prinz & Garefrekes) too long. The real difference is that young players like Kulig are already Frauen Bundesliga starters whereas our players age 19-20 are not playing pro ball. The real development and formation for players takes place in club settings and is not supposed to really be the job of the WNT coaching staff.

For the USA system, there is the usual unhappiness about the NCAA rules for soccer (both the sub situation but also limited practice/games). But the recent adjustments in the NCAA rules for allowing players to still maintain their amateur eligibility when they play on a team with players that are being paid (as opposed to just being allowed to play against pros) may help our development in that some Wleague and WPSL teams that pay some players may be able to also sign top college talent for the summer.

 

The day this doesnt happen your really in trouble.

Every 4 years Germany transitions old stars with ready made new additions. The intergration of German players is machine like, but comes at the cost of random performances outside of compitition dates. Since 99 the intergration of young talent into the USWNT and German ranks has had vastly different results. I'll give you the fact that US is still a stronger side than many up and comming nations, but the level of player being produced in relation to your huge player pool is quite poor. Former non entities will soon ba able to hold thier own agianst the US, and the decent will win.

If you class a 30 & 32 year old as a warhoreses then dammm. Both Prinz and Garefrekas wont play for germany post 2011. Plus dont be fooled by the length of time players have been in the German side, as its overall age is still younger than the US.

Kim Kulig made her senior appearence not to long after moving to a first division club, it was actually her U-20 performance that encouraged Nied to give her a go. Not all the players that got call ups after Chile worked out for what Neid wanted, just 2 making the cut for the Euros squad, but at least they got a serious chance to succeed.

This I dont get. For the sake of WNT's NCAA should adjust its rules for women's soccer. I allways thought college women's soccer was the closet thing to a club football system the US had. Like you suggest, why dont the college sides play agianst pro teams in some competitive format?

 

As a soccer fan, I dislike free substitution, the countdown clock and regular-season overtime, among other features of the college game.

But college coaches would go BSC if they were deprived of free substitution. They would argue that with limited training time and 2 games on many weekends, FIFA substitution would place a burden and injury risk on student-athletes. And they might be right.

College sides do play WPS teams in preseason friendlies and many college players, I think, play in the W-League or WPSL in the summer, so they do get some pro-level experience.

But the fundamental problem is that no one (college ADs, the NCAA, the coaching profession) is pushing college coaches to teach a more technically-sophisticated brand of soccer at the college level. And I don't think the USSF has the leverage to do so.

 

Here are two quotes from former UCLA basketball coach John Wooden that I think Jill Ellis, UCLA soccer coach, would have done well to heed when selecting lineups and making substitutions.

“Never mistake activity for achievement.”

“Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.”