Pre-match: USA vs Mexico -- Gold Cup Final Sun 7/7

So you predict balls to the wall attack?

 

I'll assume you're counting the 2015 CONCACAF Cup final here, since the '93 final was in Azteca.

But if you're going to take our historical record into account, you might want to look beyond the Gold Cup final to all competitive games against Mexico during that period on home or neutral soil. Which would also include the following:

'91: 2-0 win in Gold Cup semifinals
'97: 2-2 draw in World Cup qualifying
'01: 2-0 win in World Cup qualifying
'02: 2-0 win in World Cup
'09: 2-0 win in World Cup qualifying
'13: 2-0 win in World Cup qualifying
'16: 2-1 loss in World Cup qualifying

That's a 5-1-1 record at home or on neutral soil against Mexico in all other competitive matches. If you add the Gold Cup/CONCACAF Cup finals to that, you're left with a 6-5-1 record, which paints a less bleak picture than 4 losses out of 5.

But, I also agree with you that the current state of the US and Mexico teams might make all of that historical context irrelevant, especially given that 3 of our 4 most recent competitive games against Mexico on home soil were losses. I'll also acknowledge that a lot of those wins were in Columbus, and we're not going to recreate that sort of home atmosphere on Sunday.

 

Lol all you guys saying things like this just need to stop it.... I mean, seriously.

85% of a Mexico “F Team” would still be better then any A or B team we throw out there! The skill gap is tremendous right now with what we have in our player pool and anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves....

 

Who is more likely to pay that? US fan or El Tri?
I suspect El Tri. Fingers crossed that US fans aren’t outnumbered.

 

I wouldn't go this far, but one thing I've noticed over the years is that the drop off in quality between Mexico's first choice players and their replacements always seems far less noticeable (and sometimes non-existent) than it is for us.

One thing I often ask myself about the bench players on a 23 man roster is how comfortable would I be with the majority of these players starting in a meaningful match against decent opposition. And my answer generally tends to be "absolutely not comfortable," even while I'm generally okay with our first XI. Mexico doesn't really strike me as having the same problem.

 

Hard to tell... Keep in mind that the game sold out a week ago, and had pretty good sales for a while. The section I wanted to sit in sold out back in May. Given the fact that the Gold Cup is historically given MUCH better media coverage in the Spanish language media, and people being really down on the US team coming into this, (plus the fact that the Chicago area has more Mexican-born residents than anywhere in the country except LA) my guess is that most of the stadium's original ticket buyers will be wearing green.

It will probably be considerably better than 2007/2009 when the crowd was 90% El Tri due to the fact that media and sponsorship has gotten better and the game isn't buried deep on the farthest reaches of cable. Back then even the tournament sponsors like Allstate weren't even trying to reach an English-language audience.

 

3G could simply change the tactics; he has already done so in other areas.

 

I think they weren’t into it given they just finished playing a season and this is Gold Cup.

 

It is good to be going into this match with Jozy healthy and on low miles for the tournament. He won’t be pulled at 60 minutes in this one.

 

Look, I know everyone's going to blame USSF if we can't cap tie the kid, but really the blame should go to the Chicago Fire for not signing CH14 by now so the kid can be born US passport eligible at birth.

 

My son and I flew in for that game at rather the last minute. My friends from St. Louis and Chicago had 6 tickets on the midfield stripe. We had to settle for the section behind the goal and we received a Mexican beer shower after the Feilhaber goal.

 

But I don't expect more major tactical changes(like Lima for Ream) at this point.

Imo the decisions are--

Lima or Cannon? I get the feeling Cannon's introduction was more rotational. I expect Lima who is better on the ball.

Zardes or Altidore? Zardes represents the better counter threat, but his ridiculousness from last night probably seals the deal for Altidore . Altidore's power and hold up play should find some effectiveness against Mexico.

Boyd or Arriola? Boyd is the better individual talent, but the partnership between Arriola and Pulisic on the left has been too good overlook.

Boyd or Roldan? Do you go for width on the right flank? Or do you go for a player who can pinch in to provide protection for Bradley and provide numbers in the attack? This is a tough one and depends on what the opponent brings to the table. I haven't been watching Mexico.

 

There's no doubt their depth is better than ours. I don't think their F team would beat this A-/B+ team, but they are deeper all the way across the board.

Hopefully as MLS and USL academies spin up, that starts to change.

(Also, this Mexican team is not their A team, but it's not a straight B team, either. Maybe our team is A- and their team B+).

 

sure, he could. do you think hes going to in a final?

 

See the next post.

 

Alitdore is starting. Gregg's said he's the #1. He's treated him like a #1 he's protecting because of injury concerns. I don't even know why he'd pull him if he was going to start Zardes.

We haven't seen Berhalter do much moving of positions for players in terms of left and right. I don't think Boyd is considered for Arriola, at least not mid-Gold Cup.

I think the Lima or Cannon choice is interesting. I think it's Boyd v Morris. And Miazga versus Zimmerman, especially with Raul around. I think Long's speed and performance means he's the #1.

The Roldan thing is actually kind of intriguing given how he played, but I do think it's Morris or Boyd.

 

Coaches can change their minds. Zardes did nothing to force the issue, though.

Boyd has played on both flanks.

 

We got a significant beer shower in 09... people generally were less well behaved on both sides that game, though it was so hot and humid that day that getting any liquid was almost refreshing.

 

My recollection was the crowd was at least 85-15 Mexican fans in 2007.

 

I'd say that was about right. 2009 at the Meadowlands was probably worse.

 

Nonsense. You must of Mexican heritage.

 

You can't possibly believe that Beerholder's roster for this GC is an A- roster.

 

Oof. Farcical take.

For one, the "skill gap" is highly overrated. Hence why our record against Mexico since the turn of the millennium is 14 wins, 7 losses, and 6 draws. None of those USA teams were technically superior to Mexico, regardless of whether or not the USA team was better or worse overall.

Only in the last few years has the USA finally produced multiple technical players at Mexico's level at the youth level. But more importantly, those youth teams are beating Mexico, even if the Left Back is comparatively low-skill to his Mexican counterpart. The days of US players being far below Mexico in technical skill are numbered.

And perhaps most important of all, the US YNTs have the top developmental program in the region, so the probability that some of these players come good, and that more of them do compared to their Mexican counterparts, is high.

Even now, in the trough of our talent. With a team of mostly MLS players from our "Lost Generation". Severely hampered with injuries, and missing quality players through poor managerial decisions. We clearly have a team that, if managed correctly, can handily beat this Mexican team in a competitive game.

It's not a full strength Mexico, but it's not a throwaway squad either, especially considering that Mexico will in future be without players like Vela or Chicharito due to retirement, and may also prefer younger talent like Edson Alvarez over older starters from the previous cycle.

Secondly, Mexico's "depth" is high quality piano-carriers at best. They're seriously lacking in high end productive veterans (much like the US) and high end prospects.

 

Lol, I’m not Mexican heritage, simply a realist. Guess we’ll see on Sunday!

And yes, I’ve read that “Lost Generation” article. Clearly that’s where we currently are....

 

I have no idea what a Mexico A-team looks like at this point, but just out of curiosity I looked up Mexico's most common XI starters from last year's World Cup:

Ochoa
Alvarez
Salcedo
Moreno
Gallardo
Layun (injured)
Herrera (unavailable)
Guardado
Lozano (injured)
Vela (potentially retired)
Hernandez (unavailable)

The bolded 6 out of 11 players are on this Gold Cup roster and all started against Haiti, while the rest are injured/unavailable (in one case, maybe permanently). That does include some of their bigger difference makers, but there are also others on this roster, like Raul Jimenez, who I imagine would have been starting this summer even without those absences.

A B+ team sounds about right to me there.