Post-match: USA vs Mexico Gold Cup final 7/7/19

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by tomásbernal, Jul 7, 2019.

  1. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Memphis, Tn
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    durkin was suspended for the france match, it wasnt some masterful tactical change by tab. it was the soccer gods bailing our ass out and giving us one more round.
     
  2. gogorath

    gogorath Member

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    1. I think Tab has said he was never approached, no?
    2. If Tab rejected it, it was about the interim, not Michael Bradley.
     
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  3. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Ok. Like many goals, a cascade of errors and miscommunication. The goal had been coming for 20 minutes. The midfield was overrun, the coach's adjustments were ineffective. Something for GB to analyze.
     
  4. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Tab's only mistake was in underestimating the high our young dudes were on after the France victory and their eagerness to take that victory forward against the next opponent.

    Durkin had an excellent game when he destroyed the Nigerians in the second game in group. There was no lack of data to show that Durkin could be very good or very meh.

    You are right that it's not about a masterful tactical change. It's much more than that.
     
  5. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    This is how we somehow managed to absolve Antoneee on the France goal when they scored in dying moments of our friendly. It's why insurance companies gave up assigning blame and went to no-fault insurance. It's why the police weren't convicted for beating Rodney King after the jury watched tape of the incident once then twice then over and over and over again til it looked like nothing happened.
     
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  6. USA-Zebuel

    USA-Zebuel Member+

    Mar 26, 2013
    Club:
    Colón de Santa Fe
    You are right! Now reread the post for the description of why he is failing. That is called reading comprehension!

    And now you know
     
  7. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I understood your excuses. I understood that we had to continue to fail because there was an imaginary ceiling up there in the sky somewhere for Weston McKennie that doesn't exist for others. I reject your entire post as gibberish.
     
  8. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    A little dramatic. On this play you can point out McKennie's mistake, and many have, as the one that leads to the goal. But if Roldan doesn't leave JDS to close down the LCB, then the goal probably doesn't happen. Not really on Roldan, as that is the thing the USA was doing all night and what Mexico adjusted to and GB didn't.

    Bradley loses Pizarro. If he doesn't, the goal doesn't happen. Just being goal side of Pizarro probably prevents the entry pass to Jimenez and prevents the goal.

    If Arriola tracks JDS, it doesn't happen. Probably not his guy, but it still would have prevented the goal.

    If Long wins the dual with Jimenez, the goal doesn't happen. You can ignore that and push an agenda against McKennie or Bradley or Roldan or whomever. But if the system and coach are the problem, changing midfielders will not help.

    And yes, if McKennie tracks JDS and prevents him receiving the ball for the shot, the goal doesn't happen.

    If you want to apportion blame, go ahead. For me, the bigger problem was the USA, just like against Curacao and Venezuela, and Chile, being so open to passes right into central midfield. When Pizarro pinches in that becomes 3 v 2 against McKennie and Bradley. This was going on for 30 minutes or more. Roldan is inserted, but then is still told to charge down the LCB.

    Absolving the coach for letting this all continue, to sticking with the right side over rotation even after Mexico was exploiting it, for not having a CM on the roster to insert instead of Roldan, for not just playing a straight 4-4-2 when the 4-3-3 defense wasn't working, and just blaming McKennie for his one poor play is not constructive.

    Eventually, Mexico was going to finish one of the myriad chances they were generating.

    Long is new to this and was giving the ball away left and right. McKennie was new to this. Roldan is new to this. Bradley is literally in the team for this situation and he gave the ball away cheaply several times and neither denies the ball to Pizarro, catches Pizarro, or does anything useful. Bradley was in there for "veteran leadership" and he was as poor as all the newbies (new to a real Mexico v USA game) around him.

    McKennie can be at fault for this mostly. But if Jimenez had buried any of his great chances, other guys would be singled out for their errors. When Jimenez completely whiffs on Pizarro's cross to him in the 6 yd box, Long is ball watching and Ream is easily rounded.

    The defensive system was not working and the coach did nothing to help.
     
  9. y-lee-coyote

    y-lee-coyote Member+

    Dec 4, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    After reading the comments here it seems as if there are still people trying to absolve Bradley. I get that Wes did not track the goalscorer. Oh well he is young and subject to improve.

    What I can't get is how Bradley still has supporters and people cannot see he was getting worked for quite some time before the goal, at least 15 mins. He is just too old and too slow. I think his mind sees the one two or the give and go, but his body can't get there to cut off the passing lanes. Wes is not good enough yet to run his side and to give lots of support to the veteran. He did not have a good game, but I think part of it is a lack of trust in his partner. Soccer 101 you must control enough of the midfield that your opponent cannot run drills through the middle.

    I think it all goes back to football being a weak link sport. If that weak link is a center mid, then you will not have a very good team. You surely cannot have an out of shape relief valve (Jozy) and a geriatric playing in CDM.

    USMNT fan here and it is FML until Bradley retires it would appear.
     
  10. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    it is just so odd that people want to focus on one player when over half the team made mistakes on the play.

    It is interesting question about what Berhalter's instructions were and whether Roldan followed them. It seems odd that GB wasnt trying to get more defensive help in the middle of the field. His response after the game wasn't conclusive on this...

    “When we brought on Cristian, the idea was the help us keep possession. We had a difficult time in the center of the field tonight and we thought he was going to give us help."
     
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  11. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    Borussia Dortmund
    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    He acts like he did CP a favor by letting him play then roasts him because the 'boss of the midfield' was yet again, inept.

    'We thought'....stop right there.
     
  12. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
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  13. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    I have seen many people claim that Long clearly outplayed the other CBs. On the goal and on the previous clip I posted, he clearly could have done better pressuring the ball. This clip shows how we struggled to possess the ball prior to conceding the goal. Long has 3 turnovers in a very short stretch. See plays 3, 5, and 9. (matched only by Bradley's three on plays 7, 8, and 12)

    I dont recall Miazga turning the ball over and hits a great long ball to Zardes on play 26.

     
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  14. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Bradley is slowing down, and by 2022 he's likely to be a huge liability. It's very short-sighted to stick to him now.

    As for Antonee Robinson, I don't see it. To be a fullback you need to have a sense of positioning. He doesn't.
     
  15. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don’t ask questions you already know the answer to.
     
  16. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    When you train in soccer, you see two kinds of kids: the smart ones, and the dumb ones. The dumb ones with good physical traits (big, strong, fast) are usually weeded out in countries that emphasize technique.

    We don't, we keep playing them because they get results. Until the others start catching up.

    Anyway, how do you know a kid is smart? He stops, and he realizes the ball forward is not always the best thing in attack. Time and again "smart" teams like Mexico and Costa Rica do the same thing to us: the wide guy stops, looks around, and crosses the ball not to the area, but to the guy who comes running from midfield, behind the area.

    Our attackers don't do that. They always cross forward, even if the chances of it going to the keeper or being intercepted are 90%. They fail to look behind, at the guys coming from midfield, even if one of them is completely unmarked.

    You need brains for that.
     
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  17. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Just watched you paisano Almeyda rip his/your paisano Schelotto a new one with a team that was the laughingstock of MLS in 2018.

    Almeyday's subs were 1) rb Lima for rb Tommy Thompson and 2) a double sub of cf Hoesen for cf Wondo and lb Salinas for lb Flores.

    One of the interesting things about Ameyda is how much respect he has for the fullback position. It was the only position where he brought in new talent (Flores) apart from Espinoza, also Argentine, on loan from Huracan at right wing. He had no problem using Jackson Yueil. a college player, at the 10

    I'm ready for Tommy Thompson at rb for USMNT in September and Paxton Pomykal in the 8 position where Wes plays. Agree?
     
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  18. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Yes. Wes is more an attacking mid, and Pax could be the #8 we're missing. I still think Adams should be our six going forward.

    Thompson is someone we must keep an eye on. I'm with you on this one, it's something that must be tried, and stuck with for more than a couple of games. It's not going to look pretty the first time.

    It's a matter of thinking long-term, too.
     
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  19. gogorath

    gogorath Member

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I think you mean Lopez when you say Flores -- Marcos is 19. Almeyda has three pretty good fullbacks (although Lopez has been more erratic).

    He's completely redefined the Quakes, both in culture/work ethic and in style of play. There was a lot of focus on his man-marking system early, but he's also got the team playing a much more attractive, passing-focused style of play.

    And all with a team that really isn't optimized for his style of play. Vako and Eriksson are two of the highest paid players, and they aren't not the guys you'd pick for Almeyda.

    That said, Espinoza has been VERY good as an add and people underestimate how many goals Vega has saved compared to Tarbell, who was a trainwreck.

    He's also put Jungwirth in his ideal role of sweeper -- he's the only dude who doesn't man mark in most situations and just plays free safety. That's a perfect fit for a guy who played really poorly last year in a role that didn't take as much advantage of his speed and aggression.
     
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  20. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    It's a shame Almeyda has a Spanish accent and won't ever qualify to be USMNT coach.
     
  21. gogorath

    gogorath Member

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I'm sure there will be a point where Almeyda will be considered. If you've seen videos of him and his interpreter, it's pretty awesome. But he doesn't have a spanish accent -- the dude doesn't speak English at a material level, apparently.

    That said, the "speaking English" thing is one more example of why this fanbase drives me a little nuts. One, it's just been something that someone said on twitter but it's parrotted like crazy.

    Two, there's absolutely no attempt to understand that even if it were in someway true, why.

    It's very, very, very clear, especially with the Chicago requirement, that Earnie wants to build a program. He didn't want a national team coach who came in for a camp and left. He wanted someone who would work with Earnie, with the youth development people, with Tab, with Wicky, with Kreis and so on. There's more in Earnie's job description for the National Team coach than just coaching the team.

    So yeah, he wants the person to both be there and to be part of regular conversations. Could Almeyda pull that off, with his intrepreter? Maybe. That dude is incredible. But it makes it much, much harder.

    I know that there's a lot of positions in my company where it would be insane to hire someone that only speaks Spanish. The person simply couldn't do the job.

    So, I think there's a good chance that they were looking for someone who could communicate clearly with both the players and a myriad of other people, all of whom have a common language of English.

    And in the future, I don't know that that will be a requirement. I don't even know that it was one. But I can totally see it.
     
  22. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    That is odd. you are upset that people mention it regularly when you suggest it might not true, but then argue why it should be a requirement.

    I think they wanted someone who play as many MLS players as possible and the English speaking requirement was a simple way to narrow the pool to get what they wanted. If the goal was to get a bunch of inferior coaches to work together, then that is a stupid reason.
     
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  23. gogorath

    gogorath Member

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    One, I didn't say I think it should be a requirement. None of us actually know if it was or not.

    What I merely presented was a completely rational reason why languages spoken by a potential employee -- which is part of the consideration set for basically every job ever -- might be an important part of the consideration set.

    You, predictably, presented a conspiracy-theory level of logic that doesn't make any sense.
     
  24. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    I think if you set up criteria that leads you to think Berhalter is the best option by a large margin, you might want to reassess your criteria.

    Maybe it is a conspiracy theory, but I have a hard time anybody really thinks that was the best roster for accomplishing anything other than proving at least half of them didn't belong. This roster looks like it was put together like regional ODP teams were in the 1980s. It sure seems like being connected is more important than anything else.

    Let's see how long that outsider Wicky stays in the program.
     
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  25. nbarbour

    nbarbour Member

    Jun 19, 2006
    Washington DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Would rep this a billion times if I could.
     
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