Post-match: USA vs. Guyana, June 18, 2019 - Gold Cup

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by schrutebuck, Jun 18, 2019.

  1. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But facts matter, despite the prevailing political climate claiming alternative facts are valid.

    @tomásbernal bases his conclusions on the opinions of some other posters on BS that he vaguely remember and then tries to pass those off as facts.

    Was Jermaine Jones bad in a US jersey? Well to a group of BS posters aparently so. Is the statement "Jermaine Jones was bad in a US jersey" a fact?

    Anyone with any soccer knowledge would conclude such a statement is absurd!
     
  2. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    A euro-based player being on standby means missing part of his already short vacation for the small possibility of playing in the GC.
     
  3. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    TBF, the quote from Tomasbernal was not from this thread but another so I wouldn't tie his opinion here and the "changing perspectives" quote together.
     
  4. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Does this help. ;)

    Chandler, who helped Eintracht Frankfurt win their relegation playoff against Nuremberg on Monday, arrived at the U.S. camp with a right quadriceps strain.

    The 26-year-old limped out of Monday's Bundesliga match, but earlier this week a U.S. team spokesman had told ESPN FC he was fine and fit to play.


    https://www.espn.com/soccer/united-...jured-timmy-chandler-on-us-copa-america-squad
     
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  5. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    Are Desevio Payne or Ryan Laursen any good?
     
  6. matabala

    matabala Member+

    Sep 25, 2002
    Myself included, I first started following on the old .rec board a number of years before BS.
     
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  7. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ever notice that the most vehement pro-USSF members have all joined within the last month?

    Somebody decided to spend some money on PR... Maybe it's part of the change hearts and minds thing they got the Fox guys spewing.:cool:
     
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  8. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Memphis, Tn
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    payne looked like he was going to be really good in the u20 wc a few years ago, i was really high on him. would get a few chances with various lower eredivise teams (gronegin first, then loans) but a lot of injuries disrupted that and he never settled in. just got a move to emmen- hopefully he can stay healthy, hasnt lost too much, but its very much a hyndman-esque wait and see (and hope) situation.
     
  9. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    The list of players we've lost to injury in the last 10 years is impressive.

    We could build two 23-man squads that may be better than what we have outside our Fab3 were not for injuries.

    All NTs lose some guys to injury, but we've been virtually gutted by them.
     
  10. CMeszt

    CMeszt Member+

    YVAN EHT NIOJ
    Jan 9, 2004
    3 blocks from "SoccerHouse", Chicago
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    [​IMG]
     
  11. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Even paranoid people occasionally have enemies...
     
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  12. CMeszt

    CMeszt Member+

    YVAN EHT NIOJ
    Jan 9, 2004
    3 blocks from "SoccerHouse", Chicago
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    I mean yeah, but that's usually because paranoid people tend to act like assholes and it gets them in trouble, not because they're speaking truth to power.
     
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  13. gogorath

    gogorath Member

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I don't want to particularly bring anyone back. Berhalter said that he wanted mostly young players, and that he brought a couple of guys -- Bradley and Omar -- back for experience.

    There are very few coaches out there who don't want some level of experience on their team. I get that no fan ever sees the value, but it's virtually 100% across coaches.

    That's a big reason why Fabian isn't here, I'd imagine.

    I can't remember who I was responding to earlier, but my point was simply this: Fabian Johnson not being on this team is not a big deal. And it's not a conspiracy that the press aren't talking about a story that's both been answered and that no one is asking for.
     
  14. UncagedGorilla

    Sep 22, 2009
    Tulsa
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    This reminds me of the Mel Gibson movie Conspiracy Theory where he plays a guy who believes basically every conspiracy known to man then he accidentally stumbles upon a real one and has people out trying to get him to keep him quiet. Every once in a while even the most paranoid stumble upon some truth. Is the USSF sending secret posters to BS to shout at people on a message board? Maybe not. Are they actively engaging in a PR/propaganda campaign designed to lower expectations and make us believe that certain MLS based players and maybe coaches are better than they really are? That's an unequivocal yes.

    I think 80% or more of this board is uncomfortable with the relationship between USSF, MLS, and the USMNT. People like me believe it goes pretty deep and because, as another poster pointed out fully 48% of the votes for USSF executives come from MLS and pay to play representatives, it is going to be extremely difficult for change to come from USSF. If they wouldn't do it in February 2018, it just isn't going to happen. I think our best hope is that somehow the USMNT gains a bit of autonomy from the happenings in Chicago but even that seems like it's definitely headed in the opposite direction.
     
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  15. gogorath

    gogorath Member

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    That's not ironic.

    I understand your point of view. I just don't necessarily agree with it.

    This is part of what I was saying earlier. You equate not agreeing with you with being a moron, or incapable of understanding, or being a troll.

    Here's your point of view: you don't want Bradley or Omar or Ream on the team because they suck and because they have the "stink of Couva" on them.

    You suggest that we shouldn't be calling in old guys (Agreed!) but if we absolutely need the experience, we should call in guys like don't suck and don't have the stink of Couva on them like Fabian, Besler and Bedoya.

    Am I understanding?

    So first issue: Matt Besler ********ing played in the Couva game. And Bedoya was on the bench with Timmy Ream, so doesn't he carry the same stink? How did you manage to find two examples of your three be players that were at that Trinidad game, including a starter?

    Can we toss out the stink of Couva as some thing we need to get rid of, since you seem to want to replace the stink with stink?

    Second, I am not going to crucify over Berhalter not bringing someone in that won't be here in 2022. I don't love Omar, Ream or Bradley on this roster, but I understand the desire for some veteran leadership.

    I don't have to agree with Berhalter, but none of these decisions make him a moron or an idiot. They have logic behind them.

    You and Gregg may disagree on how you rate Michael Bradley (and 70% of the fanbase rates Michael Bradley worse than every coach in the world does), but it's not idiotic.

    But yes, keep on criticizing every small decision as if there's no logic behind them, and as if they mean anything.
     
  16. gogorath

    gogorath Member

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Certainly if you have an unequivocal yes, you have proof, no? I'm interested in this PR/Propoganda campaign "designed to lower expectations."

    As a person who works in the demand creation wing of one of the top marketing companies in the world, a PR campaign designed to lower expectations is not something I've ever heard about.

    Why are these two things grouped together? What does pay to play representative even mean?

    I believe MLS has something like 17% of the vote, so the rest of that 48%, if accurate, if what, the Youth Council?

    MLS and the Youth Council aren't exactly aligned. I'm not sure anyone should be playing them as a block here.

    Garber has one of 15 voting seats on the actual board. He's not exactly running the thing, here.
     
  17. UncagedGorilla

    Sep 22, 2009
    Tulsa
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    Matt Besler busted his you know what in the Couva game. If there was one guy who played that game and should not have any stink on him it's Besler. He got a yellow card late in the game on sheer effort. He can come back and be a part of any USMNT and not have stink on him as far as I'm concerned. He didn't walk to the corner flag to sky corner kicks 40 yards in the air. That's how you get stink, not making forty-yard sprints in the 94th minute. Nagbe lazily closing TnT players down, that's another way to get stink. I don't actually fault Omar because any coach with a brain would know better than to play him against a fast team but he's in the same boat as Ream, shouldn't see the team again based on ability, nothing that happened in Couva.

    BUT we all know why Besler isn't being called back in. It's because of the stuff he said to Jimmy Conrad about the team and specifically Michael Bradley that got out.

    I'd take Besler and Cameron plus his brass balls minus his politics back off that team in a heartbeat. Tell Lichaj to catch the plane with Geoff from England and those are my veteran leaders.
     
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  18. UncagedGorilla

    Sep 22, 2009
    Tulsa
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    We can get into the election another time but as for the propaganda campaign, I absolutely have proof. I read the press releases and listen to Stu Holden and Matt Doyle speak. It's just like the White House Spokesman who is good at regurgitating the company line. It's extremely transparent and yes, they are absolutely trying to lower expectations with this constant talk of the player pool, strong Concacaf, etc.

    I suppose suing their charity and publicly fighting the USWNT are also things that would be good ideas for an organization you advise? USSF has made a lot of mistakes over the past few years so them continuing to do stupid things shouldn't surprise anyone.
     
  19. ChrisSSBB

    ChrisSSBB Member+

    Jun 22, 2005
    NV
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is probably why FJ wasn't/ won't be selected. At his age, you would expect there to be some leadership you could bring into the fold but it doesn't seem to be something that is in him. I suspect it drives coaches crazy wondering which player you are going to get on the field. When trying to establish a culture/team personality, it just might not be worth it to bring him in. Below was just posted today and surmises that he will be moving on from BMG.

    "Even after all these years, Fabian Johnson remains an unsolved mystery. That he brings many plants, is undoubted. Its flexibility makes it a trainer and team player that suits every team. But beyond that, the impression remains that Johnson does his job rather unemotionally and it makes no difference to him whether he is on the pitch or not. Of course he will not be indifferent, but it lacks the obvious bite to assert its position in the final consequence. "

    http://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/fa...monchengladbach.156898/page-141#post-37900157
     
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  20. gogorath

    gogorath Member

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Just rewatched the game. Despite the general storyline that we opened it up in the second half, I counted roughly 9 decent or better scoring chances in the first half and about 9 in the second half.

    I say "about 9" in the second half because the team's issue in the first half was generally finishing good opportunities. In the second half, we had a bunch of set ups and failed to make a good final pass. It's tougher to judge those.

    That total 18 is a pretty good number. Converting 2-3 of those is pretty bad given the defense, though. (I'm not counting Zardes' goal as a decent or better chance, and even Boyd's second goal was more his effectiveness than a great opportunity.)

    Rewatching, there's a ton of missed chances.
     
  21. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because people never conspire. Not today. Not yesterday. Not tomorrow. Ever. Folks aspire, respire, perspire, but never ever conspire. Why, just show me one instance in the historical record of any people getting together to plan out how to rig stuff in their favor. That's right, you can't! So everyone stop with this "conspire" nonsense and let's get back to the Good Ship USSF and sail the kind and trusty seas to our radiant soccer'ish future!.......:coffee:
     
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  22. CMeszt

    CMeszt Member+

    YVAN EHT NIOJ
    Jan 9, 2004
    3 blocks from "SoccerHouse", Chicago
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    It's really not a coincidence that UMSNT fans and antivaxxers share similar demographics.
     
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  23. OfficeSpace

    OfficeSpace Red Card

    United States
    Jun 8, 2019
    So you think that since conspiracies are possible then therefore your conspiracy theories about USSF are true?

    Or supported in any way?
     
  24. OfficeSpace

    OfficeSpace Red Card

    United States
    Jun 8, 2019
    These whiners are so bad at supporting their claims, or so weak in the face of pushback, that they immediately go to conspiracy theory "shill" arguments.
     
  25. OfficeSpace

    OfficeSpace Red Card

    United States
    Jun 8, 2019
    "Unequivocal, yes."

    Love it.
     

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