Post-match: USA vs. Guyana, June 18, 2019 - Gold Cup

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by schrutebuck, Jun 18, 2019.

  1. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Who is TYAC? The Yanks are coming?

    Is there anything to corroborate this?
     
  2. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    #502 IndividualEleven, Jun 20, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
    Zardes has a good goals/assist per 90 rate for the US. His main problem is he makes for an awkward fit as a lone striker.

    I don't get this Sargent vs Zardes thing. We have plenty of young, up and coming, unproven strikers. Pepi, Soto, Vazquez, Ebobisse, Novakovich, Ferriera.

    Morris over Sargent is more of a head-scratcher.
     
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  3. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Let's look at current rankings for the listed members of Concacaf who are also FIFA members.
    Mexico 18, USA 30, Costa Rica 39, Jamaica 54, El Salvador 69, Panama 75, Canada 78, Curacao 79, TnT 92, Haiti 101, Antigua & Barbuda 124, Nicaragua 129, St. Kitts & Nevis 133, Guatemala 145, Dominican Republic 154, Barbados 164, Belize 166, St. Lucia 172, Grenada 173, Bermuda 174, Cuba 175, Dominica 177 [tied with ] [ St. Vincent & The Grenadines 177 [tied with] Guyana 177, Puerto Rico 180, Aruba 189, US Virgin Islands 199, Cayman Islands 205 [tied with] British Virgin Islands 205, Turks & Caicos 208, Anguilla 209, Bahamas 210.

    Note that Guadeloupe and Martinique are not members of FIFA, being part of France's overseas department, although they are allowed to participate in Caribbean and Concacaf competitions. They have no rank. So cannot be part of this discussion in terms of rank. In terms of how they fare in competitions it seems they would be pretty reasonably ranked. Particularly Martinique, which seems to play more often and has participated in 3 Gold Cups [including making the quarterfinals].

    For Nicaragua, in 2017 it was ranked 108.

    In 2013, for Cuba,
    its rank was 88
    and for Belize it was 164

    In 2009, for Grenada,
    its rank was 138

    Let's also include some results you chose to leave out:
    in 2015, we beat Cuba 6-0
    in the quarterfinals. Cuba was ranked by end of that year at 175. By the way, this is the year you described as "tougher".

    Some other results in cups from the past three years:

    WCQ: USA 4-Guatemala 0, USA 4-TnT 0, USA 6- St. Vincent & The Grenadines 0, USA 6-Honduras 0, USA 4-Panama 0,

    CA- USA 4-Costa Rica 0.

    At the time of the matches you listed, no team had a ranking as low as is Guyana's today. Most were qualitatively, and in standing, far ahead of Guyana, and those which weren't we we were hammering with at least 6 goals. Of the last three years, this Guyana result stands out as the poorest result against the minnowest of them all.... and I will remind you that General Egg is in command because the previous managers were fired for failing to live up to the standard asked for the USMNT.
    But, as you say, "Mission Accomplished". :coffee:
     
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  4. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    everyone has a recency bias; every coach is going to pick players they are comfortable with over players they aren't arguing it as a conspiracy is just dumb.

    Outside of the fact he just started a dual national at rw over one of those mls bias guys and even worse this dual national has never played in the states. not to mention he droped the fire kid for homles, baird for boyd so the recent evidence is opposite of ur conspiracy theory. I can also easily argue that the team is better with bradley/adams then adams/lima.

    to get back on topic big blue the issue with berhalter is he has a system and is trying to find the players to fit it which is what a club coach does. a national team coach should have a philosophy and then find a way to get his best players to fit in a manner that gets that philosophy on the field.
     
  5. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    agreed but some are saying that morris can play on the wing but Sargent cannot
     
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  6. Honore de Ballsac

    Oct 28, 2005
    France.
    Nope. I guess nobody would print it. Use or discard. If you didn't otherwise apprehend a lack of commitment / contribution from Chandler, you will likely discard. I guess that's the larger topic here.

    I've always thought one of the wonderful things about soccer is it's so subjective. One person can see a very different match from somebody else. That used to be fun. Sports are fun, right? Not here.... or maybe discussing the US Nats is some kind of twisted sicko fun or cathartic exercise or it's better than calling mom or sorting through garbage or reading about species extinction....

    Anyway, the variability and subjectivity of the "eye test" is earning it a worse reputation than "alternative facts."

    I wouldn't bother too much about Chandler because, by my eye test, he didn't bother to play well for the US. Subsequently my observation has been tainted by anecdotes from sources close to the team (sources with the kind of proven journalistic integrity that bullshitting on BigSoccer does not require.) And by the fact that Klinsmann, who had a major hard-on for Bundesliga/ Euro experience, seemed to think we didn't need him.
     
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  7. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I watched Rio Ave and Estoril back in 2015 because I was doing a paper on soccer in different European leagues. That's about as far as my Portuguese knowledge goes outside of Benfica/Braga/Porto/Sporting.

    However, considering the amount of MLS I watch, and MLS fan's own over-estimation of their own league, I'm still confident in my assessment.
     
  8. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Well, you may know sources close to the team that you can rely upon but that's for you alone, I guess. If bshredder says it's so, I'd believe it as he seems straight-up to me.

    Chandler plays wingback for his major league team and given that we are now experimenting with a system that does that and the fact that we don't have great alternatives would leave me to include him in a 40 man roster.

    The actual point I was trying to make is that when people on BS talk about Chandler (other than those of you with sources close to the team), they are mainly referring to the period when he was holding out hope for Germany.

    Finally, given your sources, I've got questions:
    1. why aren't they considering using Adams/McKennie as CMs together?
    2. Did they ask Johnson, Chandler and Wood to play and were rejected?
     
  9. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's not an admission. You are not only wrong, you consistently argue things nobody has said.

    Person A: I think player A is better than player B.

    You: YOU THINK PLAYER A IS BETTER THAN MESSI??? I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT YOU'D SAY THAT!

    Or, more specifically:

    "anyone arguing for julian green as some sort of magic fix....doesn't get it."
     
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  10. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm saying that the fact that it's not a news story doesn't mean shit.

    Bruce Arena's MLS bias was never a news story. Then Cuova happened, nothing changed, and nobody wrote anything about the MLS bias + Good ol Boy Network that caused us to fail and elected new leadership and coaches.

    Doesn't mean there isn't something there. Doesn't mean it's not a problem.
     
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  11. OfficeSpace

    OfficeSpace Red Card

    United States
    Jun 8, 2019
    He's pulled out of camps twice: Once in 2015 and once in 2017 (hamstring).

    I think the 2015 was because of "exhaustion" but I'll look it up.

    I can't believe we're still talking about this, though, given that his ambivalence and indifference is well-documented.
     
  12. OfficeSpace

    OfficeSpace Red Card

    United States
    Jun 8, 2019
    How are actual scores of games against minnows "made up" by the USSF?
     
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  13. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So you agree with me. Julian Green > Mihailovic. That's the whooooole point. Why is it that MLS players who perform badly are rewarded, while better players on the 40 man (Nagbe) and in Europe (a half dozen, including Green whom nobody wants to rely on) get passed up?
     
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  14. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Be sure to get a sanity clause before signing on to BS.
     
  15. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Morris hasn't been doing much of anything at striker or on the wing.
     
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  16. OfficeSpace

    OfficeSpace Red Card

    United States
    Jun 8, 2019
    I love people nitpicking FIFA (or ELO) ranking for minnows so they can continue to whine about a 4-0 win and continue to rip Gregg Berhalter.
     
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  17. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    It's easier to have an MLS player standby.
     
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  18. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    This a forum for enthusiasts, so all of that is perfectly reasonable.
     
  19. UncagedGorilla

    Barcelona
    Sep 22, 2009
    East Bay, CA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    You know what I'm talking about. The "expected goals ratio" or whatever garbage they called it. It's totally bogus and we would have slaughtered this Guyana team 8-0 in 2009 like we did to Barbados. I'm glad you're happy with the current state of the team but I'm not and don't think we're taking the right steps to course correct.
     
  20. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    That’s one ironic statement coming from the poster who says this:

    “If you really believe that then more power to you.“

    To the following

    DHC1 said:
    Here are the slapdick Asian ELO rankings:

    Iran, 22
    S Korea 25
    Japan 36
    USA 39

    So, do you believe or not? LOL - you cant make this stuff up.
     
  21. bct81

    bct81 Member+

    multiple (DC United, Dortmund, Arsenal, Leeds....)
    United States
    Mar 17, 2007
    moving around the US every few years ....
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    best case - you put your most consistent AND intense player in the center/DM and to be your captain ....

    the team just is not moving the ball fast enough as a team and is not turning on the defensive pressure with intensity and immediately ...

    that is coaching.

    the system does not mean squat if the men don't show the intensity and commitment.

    JJ may not have always kept a cool head but he was intense and committed - and I don't find it a small measure of irony that McKennie is a D Mid at Schalke.

    Our system should be to put McKennie and Adams in the midfield (or two surrogates when they are injured) and build the team around them ... pick four good defenders (with 2 or 3 backups) and drill them over and over to develop that cohesion ... then pick good strikers and wing middies and a good AM and drive them to "express themselves" and don't force them into a system that is not aligned with how they play their club ball.

    It is not that hard GGG (or USSF - Earnie!).
     
  22. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Then why not Nagbe? Mihailovic is there because he fought for a spot in camp... then lost horribly. Why not bring Nagbe (we're talking about a sub here) and kick the tires on him, instead of rewarding Mihailovic's failure?

    It's always going to be easier to call in MLS players. We've held only two camps in Europe that I can recall over the last 2 cycles.
     
  23. Honore de Ballsac

    Oct 28, 2005
    France.
    Except when he was out of position and trotting back while watching his man attack our goal, sure.

    If we played him where Schalke has played him, that's like everything but goalie.
     
  24. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    If this is what you recall from JJ’s effort in a USMNT kit, I think you need to re-look at what he actually did. He was a very very impressive player - one of the best to ever wear the uniform.
     
  25. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There is no "well-documented" ambivalence or indifference. There are posts like yours which presents lies, half-truths, and rumors as facts.

    2017 should be fresh in the minds of anyone who follows the USMNT. He got hurt at the end of the season came to camp anyway and was sent home unfit to play. 2016 got hurt came to camp anyway and was sent home unfit to play.

    A guy who has admitted to a fear of flying does not fly across the Atlantic to camps At the end of his season when has been hurt for his club, against the wishes of his club, if he is not deeply invested in playing for his country. He came to those camps and was sent home, those are the facts!

    Chandler has been diagnosed with a right quadricep strain after he exited early from Eintracht Frankfurt's winning effort in a playoff to avoid relegation from the Bundesliga. He did not feature for the US national team's friendly against Ecuador on Wednesday.

    https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016...aces-timmy-chandler-usmnt-copa-america-roster
     

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