Post-match: USA vs England 11/15/2018

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Susaeta, Nov 15, 2018.

  1. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Lol. "Don't judge Trapp off of 8 games guys!"

    Also: "We got beat one time without Trapp! Therefore he's the best!"

    The cognitive dissonance is hilarious.
     
  2. chad

    chad Member+

    Jun 24, 1999
    Manhattan Beach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm fairly certain Excellency is on a long game of satire right now.
     
  3. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    His game is to get Delgado on the pitch IMO.
     
  4. WrmBrnr

    WrmBrnr Member+

    Apr 12, 2001
    San Carlos
    What bsky wrote was not anti-Semitic. However, he was responding directly to your response of PJ's blatantly racist post, so was essentially propping up PJ's post. Bsky is so wedded to his JK position, that he was willing to ignore the blatant racism to which you were responding.

    To me, it appears he was essentially trying to defend PJ's indefensible post.

    If that is not the case bsky, then I apologize. I know what your feelings are for Garber as commish and MLS as a whole and we will disagree, but directly defending a poster who slings terms like Jew ass and Jew boy got me really hot under the collar.
     
  5. chad

    chad Member+

    Jun 24, 1999
    Manhattan Beach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wasn't Philly-Jawn just a sock for Dirt McGirt unhinged?
     
  6. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    bsky22 is guilty of constantly re-litigating the JK/LD issue but I don't see how one can construe that he supports anti-semitism. There's nothing there IMO and I was as pissed about what was said as anyone.
     
  7. ttrevett

    ttrevett Member+

    Apr 2, 2002
    Atlanta, GA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One would hope that is Sarachan's pet project and it dies once he is removed. It's the game plan of his predecessors in terms of MB90, so it follows that Dave would want to stick with his comfort zone.

    On The Football Show this AM, Neil Barnett was talking about how appalling the lack of a first touch was with the entire US team against England. He then went on to talk about the lack of footballing IQ and thoughtfulness about where to go with second touches (the latter in reference to Marcus Rashford against Croatia, but linked it back to the US team).

    I have been on this issue for years, in terms of the first touch. It hasn't gotten any better even with these supposed outstanding prospects that we have. Second touch is a tackle, or playing first touch passes as lobs back to another player, which puts that player under immediate pressure, happens more frequently than I can count. I'm not sure how this can be remedied but it probably is going to take a generation.

    The second bit though I think is all about a gameplan. People look like they have no football IQ if there is no one to play a ball to and he is surrounded by defenders. You have to be one special player to be able to dribble out of pressure from 2-3 international defenders. Once we have a coach, and hoepfully a well drilled game plan and tactic, we might see some improvement in the play on the field. Who knows, I have to hold out some hope.
     
  8. WrmBrnr

    WrmBrnr Member+

    Apr 12, 2001
    San Carlos
    Fair enough. @bsky22, again, I apologize for misconstruing your post.
     
  9. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Rep for the all-too-rare public apology. Too many other won't or can't apologize on an anonymous board.
     
  10. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    It was a Tweet; if I was younger maybe I could find it again. It would be a #10 in the way Pogba would play #10. The way Adams sort of played it on the U20 team. Forward destroyer who could pressure other teams high. He has been deployed up there by Red Bulls and the USMNT. But I don't know if anyone thinks of him in a final through ball kind of #10. But those are getting rarer in soccer and who knows where Adams is in 10 years.

    The more important point is that he can probably be played anywhere and excel.
     
  11. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Delgado should be out there. Trapp has usually been fine. But there is no reason he should start every game and we never see anyone else. Delgado, Canouse, even Roldan or Morales or whomever.

    We had a year to do anything and we have Sarachan just basically doing the same thing over and over and over. I think in the Spring, Dave was actually trying and this Fall he has not done much more than do rondo's in practice and give a team sheet to the ref. There clearly was no actual defensive game plan against England; at least not one that any of the players knew about.

    It is sort of unfair to Trapp that he is a stand in for the frustration with Dave which is mixed up with the frustration with USSF. Whenever Berhalter is named the coach, the first question will be, "how many other people did you interview and who were they?". What way is that to start? Unfair to Berhalter, but that is the position Sunil/Flynn/Cordeiro/Stewart have put us in.
     
  12. SamsArmySam

    SamsArmySam Member+

    Apr 13, 2001
    Minneapolis, MN
    Trying not to over-dramatize, but "SUM bitch" really captures my analysis right now. That was ugly.
     
  13. USA-Zebuel

    USA-Zebuel Member+

    Mar 26, 2013
    Club:
    Colón de Santa Fe
    Either that or he/she is an active member of the US soccer journalism which would explain the utter lack of a coherent set of logic.
     
  14. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    With somebody who knows how to play.

    But the fact remains that Trapp's results have been good in terms of GA.

    Most of the GA have been put down to other players than Trapp.

    I expect Trapp will have stiff competition from Canouse.
     
  15. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Delgado is not a 6 at this level, nor is Morales or even Roldan (who comes closest of the 8's, along with McKennie). Canouse was injured half the year, then came into a long run of games headed to playoffs with DC United. He was at Jan camp.

    I'm pretty sure much of the Trapp criticism is meant to deflect criticism of ineffective players like Wood, Green, et al. Trapp becomes a convenient target, especially since there isn't another 6 at the moment so he is a reliable whipping boy. The fact that Wood and Green can't score just isn't something many posters here want to get into.
     
    ussoccer97531 repped this.
  16. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    +2. Absolutely agree. The key difference maker here is that we have quality and quantity, and in the past, generally, we've either had quality, or not, and never had a lot of quantity other than perhaps the Donovan golden generation (I think they were the 1999 U17's, and the '03 and '07 U20's, but the '99U17's were the only grouping that really sent A LOT of guys to the full senior team for at least one cap. At the end of the day the '03 and '07 U20 squads were ruined by both injuries, and by players maxing out early in talent or just never being as good as early sentiment might have suggested (though with guys like Zizzo, I never bought the hype, just felt he took a splash play, and got a Euro club to sign him over it when at the end of the day he wasn't a special player).

    It's a very exciting time, and really interesting too if you look at the different groupings:

    '15 U20's: Noted for the strong defense, great keeper, and a couple of interesting midfield options.

    '17 U20's: Noted for the strong defense, really strong midfield, and Sargent

    '19 U20's: You'd need to consult Dave Marino-Nachison and 97531 to get a clearer view, but superficially it kinda looks like attacking players and a couple of defenders are the strength, but I'm just taking that viewpoint based upon a look at the qualification roster. I'm really not sure.

    The reason I note this though is that the different crops across the 1995 to now 2000 or so generation is that each crop had a kind of different strength. In the fullness of time, it looks like the '95's were about defense and Steffen. The '97's and various kids that made that team seemed to be about the midfield and the defense, and the '99's plus whomever joins up despite playing up a level (like say a Sargent last cycle) seem at least superificially seem to be a mix of attacking guys and defenders. So essentially we've gotten a good chunk of just about everything through these 3 cycles. My only major concerns are with Forward, and that distributing, playmaking, dynamic attacking central midfielder. We've been pinning our hopes on a bunch of different guys and none have panned out, and Carleton has been stuck in limbo at Atlanta so we don't really know for sure what we have in him. I feel pretty comfortable with regards to the future across the board other than that #10 role, and depth with genuine talent at Forward and Keeper (we've got basically 1 guy a piece at Forward and Keeper that I 100% believe in if they can stay healthy in Sargent and Steffen, but after then, it's all long odds type guys (guys I'd give like a 20-30% chance of becoming a legit European Big 5 club type talent) or guys who've had problems due to injuries, or club limbo, or stupid decisions on there or their club teams part (like not calling in Llanez for the 2017 U17 World Cup which remains one of the most bizarre decisions we've seen in years, unless I'm unaware of something that played a role there).
     
    Patrick167 repped this.
  17. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Colombia could've scored 7 or 8 goals. It was an embarrassing defensive performance.
     
    TOAzer and Excellency repped this.
  18. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    #468 IndividualEleven, Nov 19, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
    It was a well played game until the subs. Overall performance performance until the 2nd half subs is the truer indicator of a friendly performance, imo
     
  19. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Honestly think it was the Wembley factor.

    Well, that was a competitive match, though not on the level of the England-Croatia WC match, in which the former were ably marshalled.
     
  20. #8or#6

    #8or#6 Red Card

    Arsenal
    United States
    Aug 15, 2017
    Oh damn, Wood and Green didn't play well. Hell that's OK, I'll just criticize Trapp to make up for it. That's what you and ussoccerxxxxx think is behind all the carping about Trapp's play? Of course I can't be sure what's behind other posters criticism, but I can tell you I don't find these player assessments in friendlies to be so meaningful I'd make an effort to be devious to defend an opinion. Your mileage may vary.
     
  21. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Well, if the ratings for Trapp are good and ratings for Wood are bad and we lose without scoring a goal and Wood loses the ball all the time and somebody sits back and says, gee, that was bad it was all Trapp's fault, I have to wonder about the disconnect which I cant say is very devious. I guess it is devious like the kid getting his hand stuck in the cookie jar and saying he's looking for his bike.
     
  22. ttrevett

    ttrevett Member+

    Apr 2, 2002
    Atlanta, GA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Um, so they have produced better displays of first touches in previous matches? I think this has been a defining feature of US teams down the years.
     
  23. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Again, Trapp was ok in this game. So was Green. Who can tell anything when players had no idea what they are supposed to be doing. There was no "real plan". You had a U23 all-star team with a couple of over age add ins up against a team with superior in prime talent that is actually a team with a plan.

    Trapp is just Sarachan's Bornstein, Omar, or Orosco-Fiscal. It is has been mismanagement to continually start him and play him so many minutes at this time. No previous head coach saw anything in him. Like the above, the next coach might never call him again. The twist is the next coach is his club coach.

    Trapp being the thing people associate with Sarachan is a stand in for Sarachan. Sarachan himself is a stand in for the Fed and all the non-action since Couva.

    A bit unfair to Trapp; I doubt he cares. Because Sarachan has started him almost every time, you have to wonder is Berhalter could. It would kind of give GB's blessing to Dave's mess.

    If Sarachan is being prompted behind the scenes by Berhalter and Trapp is there to implement what Berhalter wants, and this has been vaguely hinted at by the MLSoccer guys so sorry for the conspiracy, then the complete lack of a defensive system on Thursday is scary.
     
  24. TMBMiles

    TMBMiles Member

    Dortmund
    United States
    Mar 31, 2017
    Trapp being in the game doesn't stop our fullbacks from being repeatedly toasted. England's B-squad carving apart our midfield in the center of the pitch with 2-3 passes was worse.
     
  25. Marco77

    Marco77 New Member

    Liverpool FC
    England
    Nov 5, 2018
    nice discussion
     

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