Post-match: USA v Panama - Gold Cup - 6/26

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by tbonepat11, Jun 26, 2019.

  1. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    what could jozy have done to be more involved? he missed once wide from a tight angle, clearly should have done better on one other chance in a good position and he scored the winner. anyone want to compare that with the number of shots zardes even gets off in the box, or the sheer number of touches he gets there?

    im shocked (impressed) he had three chances (thats counting the loose ball he latched onto on the corner) considering who was (attempting) to play balls in to him. go back and count the times zardes got the ball in the box vs guyana without getting a shot off (you can stop at 10, im not trying to waste your time).
     
  2. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Sure but the gloom in these forums is not warranted either.

    Mexico also beat two sorry teams, including the worst in the tournament (Cuba), and suffered against the other (Martinique). Those are teams ranked about as low as Guyana and Trinidad.

    They have kept their head on: not rah-rah optimistic, but not lamenting the wins as if it were something terrible. And like them, we're missing several key players (Adams, Brooks, Holmes, Lletget, even Yedlin who has his uses).

    I'm quite aware that Egg has made mistakes and I dislike some of his tactical choices. But he's got the results so far. Stating that doesn't make one an agent of the SUM Deep State.
     
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  3. FeedhimtothepigsArold

    Apr 7, 2014
    Club:
    Oxford United FC
    The difference between Mexico media and US media is night and day. They wont praise the team for smashing Cuba for six.

    In contrast we had segments of our soccer community trying to push our group as the group of death. Its just we lack balance in perspective.

    At no point did I make a reference to you being part of some deep state. I do find it interesting how you and others like to rehash the JK period in reference to what GB is doing now. Just out of the blue lol
     
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  4. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Is it too much to ask to let people be happy over a win without bringing on the possibility that even their happiness is guided by some agenda?

    Have we got to the point where one must always praise a group and criticize the other to "belong" to a certain posse?

    I hate nepotism, probably for personal reasons, being someone who was several times on the wrong end of it. That makes it quite tough for me to stomach Egg. Still, he has done well, he has not lectured us telling us he's doing one thing while obviously doing the opposite.

    I can respect that.
     
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  5. lmorin

    lmorin Member+

    Mar 29, 2000
    New Hampshire
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Second team scouting summary: Can penetrate, but not consummate.

    It should be pretty clear to all that the first US team is massively better than the second and also means that none of those non-injured players not on the roster should be selected either, barring future demonstrations of real excellence. This group is not exactly poor; they just do not have the skill level necessary to be consistent at the Concacaf international level. Too many touches; too slow to play; inability or unwillingness to target the final pass; victims of their own inferiority. By the latter I mean that, after some good effort and decent play that repeatedly created chances in the opening 20 min or so, the players lost confidence and played down at a lower level pretty much for the rest of the game. No matter. All the more reason to get some of the U-20s and U-17s into the mix asap after the tournament.
     
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  6. FeedhimtothepigsArold

    Apr 7, 2014
    Club:
    Oxford United FC
    #106 FeedhimtothepigsArold, Jun 27, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
    Here we go with the Strawman bs. Please dont misrepresent my spot on this.

    All I made reference to is the fact that scoring 10 vs weak opponents isnt anything special. In context with your post. I never mentioned you belonging to a group.

    It was you who brought up Klinsmann, unprompted, in your original post and I made reference to that. You and others tend to make random Klinsmann comments. Like the one YOU made in your post. To me its intriguing.

    I didnt place you in a 'posse'. That is your own conscience.

    At what point was I praising a certain group and knocking down another? Explain please.

    All this over sensitivity to those with a different opinion. How is my post hurting your happiness?

    Im happy we handled business but I feel this team is relatively untested and Im not sold by what ive seen. 10 goals vs Guyana and TnT is not going to sway me. Unimpressive 1 nil victory vs Panama is not going to sway me. A win vs Curacao, will not sway me.

    Have we forgotten what happened to Panama at the last world cup? This is pathetic
     
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  7. GiallorossiYank

    GiallorossiYank Member+

    Jan 20, 2011
    NJ/Roma/Napoli
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've seen some awful opinions about the NT...this is definitively the worst one.

    Tweet him, call him out. This is garbage.
     
  8. GoBigBlue88

    GoBigBlue88 Member+

    Feb 11, 2009
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Man, I know the program is in a bad spot right now, but some of you REALLY want to hate it! Your right, of course.

    Is it disheartening that it used to be a USMNT B team could waltz through this tourney cycles ago? Yes. Was last night a travesty? I don't seem to think so half as much as some others here.

    My quick takes:

    1. Few people giving Jordan Morris enough credit. Last night was about testing reserves. Based on this tourney so far, I absolutely would have Morris in the mix as a reserve. Arguably one of the program's top reserves, at least with current injury situation.

    2. Jozy was fine. He was both rusty in his first few cracks at goal and clinical in his game-deciding finish. He's in the mix whether you like it or not. Although I'll admit I did roll my eyes when Holden offered that he was limping.

    3. Reggie Cannon might unseat Lima in the XI in this tourney. Might. It's at least a battle to watch. Long-term, of course, neither can be the answer for qualifying.

    4. I don't really rate anyone else who started as international quality, truth be told. I'm sure Trapp will still be the mix as a reserve. Probably Omar too (sigh). But, like, Jonathan Lewis? Dude runs really fast in a precisely straight line and that is the entirety of his game. Makes you appreciate Paul Arriola more... Roldan? I can't believe people were clamoring for him at one point; he offers nothing.

    5. But I'd say the only player so egregiously bad I got actually mad about anything was Mihailovic. I realize it's apples:eek:ranges at positions, and the argument is a forward logjam. But damn, Greggggg, you can't say Sargent isn't ready for this moment and than bring in Djiorjdieejde freaking Mihailovic. It sends a terrible message. It also subjects us to watch some of the worst individual play I've seen in a USMNT in years. I get that he's young, but wow is that kid a mess. Set pieces aside entirely ... which is like excusing Graham Zusi as your set piece specialist if he was abysmal at set pieces for some reason ... the kid is imprecise, weak on the ball and has a touch that makes Zardes look Messi-like.
     
  9. Master O

    Master O Member+

    Jul 7, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Last I checked, the worst confederation is Oceania by a wide, wide margin. Most of the countries out there are Rugby Union hotbeds where Soccer is a distant 2nd in terms of popularity.
     
  10. Cannons

    Cannons Member+

    May 16, 2005
    #110 Cannons, Jun 27, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
    Please.... did you forget the two friendlies leading into this? 0 goals, 2 losses. We just played 3 teams most MLS teams and many college teams would thrash. These 3 wins mean NOTHING. Maybe we'll face better teams in the knockout rounds? At some point, we should face somebody that's at least as good as the two teams that beat us in the run up then we'll see what GB has produced. Right now, I am not that impressed with his selection and Im sure he will push Zardes forward in the next game. The fact that he pulled Jozy late tells me a lot about how he ranks them. Im no Jozy fan but I do not think Zardes could ever score that goal.

    Glad I didnt pay a fair amount of $$$ to see GB roll out the B team. I got burned on one of those many years ago when Bradley rolled out the "B" team in New England, just before the start of the Gold Cup. I spent over $200 to see the "B" team get thrashed by Spain. I was totally disappointed and felt ripped off. Im sure the fans last night got a taste of that. I understand that GB is playing to try and win the tournament but fans also deserve to get what they pay for too. There is no solution to this... unless you skip group play and just go to knockout games where they have to play to win
     
  11. Midas Mulligan

    Midas Mulligan Member+

    Jul 24, 2013
    NYC
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I did. Retweet if the spirit moves you.
     
  12. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Try some context. I watched the whole show and Bobby criticized every player, no MLS bias at all. He's a known contrarion. Calen Carr, on the SAME panel all but scoffed at him.
     
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  13. Cannons

    Cannons Member+

    May 16, 2005
    Doesnt matter how good he is. GB is going to play Bradley or Trapp until we start getting beat consistently with that combination. I think its a huge mistake but I also think GB is a huge mistake too
     
  14. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Actually, the first Gold Cup after the World Cup has traditionally been the A-team Gold Cup. This time Mexico is depleted because, with the Confederations Cup out of the table, some of their better players decided not to attend.

    We're also depleted, not as much but considerably, due to injuries.

    The A-Gold Cup is the one that granted a ticket to the Confederations Cup.

    The A-team Gold Cups we've won are 1991 (qualified us for 1992 King Fahd Cup, the predecessor of the Confeds Cup), 2002 & 2007. Otherwise, we've usually only won the B-team Gold Cups.
     
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  15. FormerNo10

    FormerNo10 Member

    Juventus
    United States
    Dec 13, 2018
    Perhaps they are too acustom to and blend in very nice to the pace of play of the MLS?

    "I know you got talent. I knew that before you got here. Its just other thing. Pressure. Pressure changes everything." John Milton, Devil's Advocate
     
  16. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We called for 9 points and the appearance of a plan. Check on both fronts. 2013 is the only stylish Gold Cup I remember and they didn't even get 9 on the group stage.
     
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  17. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    That doesn't make sense. MLS is better than Panama. Seattle would blow Panama off the field.
     
  18. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    So far we're doing a bit better than I expected. I thought we'd make the semis but needed some luck to make the final. Now I think we should be favorites to make the final.

    I didn't expect to end the group stage with 9 pts. and no goals conceded, though.

    Things I can reproach Berhalter for are what he didn't do in preparation for this Gold Cup: not giving a chance to Morales and Canouse to be the DMs, playing that game with Tyler Adams at right back (and before someone remarks it was just a game, let's not forget he was with the defenders when the roster was released), his wanting to stick with Bradley/Trapp in the DM role has been failrly obvious.

    I can excuse leaving Sargent aside because he's not been playing and when he did play he didn't look ready (he has yet to score anywhere this year). Weah asked to be with the U20. No idea why Novakovich and Wooten weren't given a shot, they should have.

    I dislike that he keeps Gonzo and Ream in the team, those guys are not international quality. On the other hand Egg may have hit gold with Zimmerman-Long, we'll see.

    And Holmes as an attacking mid plus Boyd as a wide forward are truly fortunate finds. They've become what I expected Green and Gall to be by now (all four are 24).
     
  19. Editor In Chimp

    Editor In Chimp Member+

    Sep 7, 2008
    We played Guyana, Trinidad and Panama B. We're 2 weeks removed from getting embarrassed against Jamaica and Venezuela. I don't think the past week tells us anything except "we're better than 3 terrible, terrible teams" .
     
  20. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Arold,

    Much of this is fair but quite frankly, I don’t see a lot of posters with their chests puffed out and only a couple who now say that “see, Berhalter criticism is overwrought”. I don’t think Suyuntuy is one of them
     
  21. Mario Balotelli

    Mario Balotelli Member+

    United States
    Feb 28, 2012
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Some quick thoughts:

    We won with 11 changes and finished the group with 9 points and no goals conceded. It should be expected given the level of opposition, but after the pathetic showings against Jamaica and Venezuela, I felt that was far from guaranteed. Defensively, I thought we looked good for the most part -- only really surrendered chances on the counter and even those were more half chances. Offensively, we had no rhythm or clear ideas on how to create chances in the final third. The gap in quality between some of the starters and the guys we saw out there today is alarming. I think there's several guys from the u20 team that would have provided better depth for this team -- specifically Pomykal (needs to be integrated with the full NT ASAP) and Weah.

    Johnson - quick off his line when he needed to be but didn't have much to do apart from one routine save

    Cannon - really like his defense and how he chooses his spots going forward. While he takes up great positions, his combination play seems lacking at the minute and his passing, especially in the offensive third needs to improve

    Miazga - the best player on the field tonight. Regularly won challenges higher up the field to keep Panama under pressure, never seemed trouble defensively, took control in the air, passed it well, and carried the ball forward when he was given space to.

    Gonzalez - his time with this team needs to come to end, even as depth. Nearly all of Panama's chances came through targeting him on the counter and while he generally has good defensive instincts, they're not helpful when you have the turn radius of an 18 wheeler.

    Lovitz - not good enough. Did he deliver a single cross that wasn't blocked or do anything noteworthy in possession?

    Trapp - invisible apart from that poorly timed tackle

    Roldan - had a few decent passes in the first half but coughed up possession too easily and like Trapp, struggled to impose himself in the midfield. Neither of them offer enough physicality in the midfield.

    Mihailovic - his performance against Jamaica might have been the worst I've seen from any American player in the last 5-10 years. While he wasn't as bad tonight, he wasn't that much better, and it's plainly obvious that he's currently not ready for the full NT. You can sometimes see his creativity and interesting ideas in possession but he currently lacks the technique/awareness to pull them off. He was extremely wasteful on set pieces and wasn't accurate enough passing the ball. To his credit, he did do a nice job pressing when Panama had possession.

    Morris - looked OK in the first half and I liked his pressing and physical play but he faded fast after the 35th minute or so. I think he's better used suited to a substitute role.

    Altidore - well taken goal and some good ideas in the final third that possibly would have come off with better players around him. I'd still like to see him get involved more in the build up, but Jozy is what he is at this point. He's never going to have Zardes' work rate but he's so much more skilled and a better finisher. Machado should have gotten at least a yellow for all the hard fouls he put on Jozy.

    Lewis - he has the speed and dribbling to get by his man but his end product is lacking. He's another one, like Mihailovic that could be useful for the u23s, but has no business being on the full NT at this point.
     
  22. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    The losses, while ugly, were friendlies and Berhalter’s won the games that he should. I’m happy that we haven’t given up a goal so far.

    The real test will be the finals and we’ll see whether the crescendo of Berhalter criticism is warranted or his backers get to say STFU.
     
  23. FormerNo10

    FormerNo10 Member

    Juventus
    United States
    Dec 13, 2018
    example of higher soccer IQ?
     
  24. ttrevett

    ttrevett Member+

    Apr 2, 2002
    Atlanta, GA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have no love for the Fed, but Glassdoor is only Glassdoor because people looooove to complain about their employers. People don't go out of their way to post generally positive reviews. But everyone will go out of their way to post negative reviews.

    I have no doubt that the USSF needs to be dissolved and respawned by different leadership, but the fact that Glassdoor has negative reviews on the USSF is as surprising as seeing a table full of teenagers glued to their smartphones rather than talk to each other.
     
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  25. FormerNo10

    FormerNo10 Member

    Juventus
    United States
    Dec 13, 2018
    Who are you referring to?
    Zardes?
    Bradley?
    Ream?
    Roldan?
    Lima?
    Arriola?
     
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