Post-match: USA v Panama - Gold Cup - 6/26

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by tbonepat11, Jun 26, 2019.

  1. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Bobby does a whole lot of talking out loud. He's also a dude who is obsessed with people earning things, probably because he was a relatively untalented player who got by on effort.

    He's got some good insights into the mind of a player, and he can come up with some good stuff. But his player evals are pretty crazy at times and it is mostly anti-youth rather than anti-Europe.
     
  2. Baysider

    Baysider Member+

    Jul 16, 2004
    Santa Monica
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    He did go to Stanford and was academic all-pac-10 so he's not a generally dumb dude.

    I don't particularly care for him since I find him a boring writer and not especially insightful. But he's making a career in soccer commentary which is an incredibly hard thing to do. There just aren't very many of those jobs out there. And part of his job is saying things that make him stand out. Four guys saying how much they like Pulisic doesn't do much to fill TV time. One guy (mildly) criticizing him suddenly makes a discussion. Not a great discussion, but sometimes that's what you get.
     
  3. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    Roldan cannot separate or cross like a proper winger. Doesn't take the top of the box kind of hammer shots he does in club. Hasn't made a goal or assist this year. And then I don't see someone winning balls the other way. If this is one of those "two way" guys people love, well, I've said my piece on that kind of mediocrity before. What we need is someone dominant in one direction or the other. We need a little more than "occasionally helpful." I think GB screwed us with his dumb selection -- so someone useless sees the field -- but we should be fielding players in non 6 roles who are routinely dangerous. Otherwise how the heck has this moved forward from Nagbe being similarly kinda helpful and then you look it up and he has 1 career NT goal in 25 caps. And you need a goal in a qualifier to get a result. And he ain't getting it for you. And then the fan sees maybe 2-3 guys on the field who COULD get it.

    We have to ask more of the mids. Otherwise it's settling and then we start doing that all over the place and then it's not very good cumulatively.
     
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  4. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    #279 juvechelsea, Jun 28, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2019
    meh. it's always a tryout, even in a friendly. i began my college career subbing in to a 3-0 deficit game 2 of the season with 30 left. non-conference away. nothing at stake in terms of how does conference go. i was huffy i wasn't starting from day 1. play like it's your opportunity even if you could time-serve. wreaked havoc and got it to 3-2. next game forward i started.

    you put your case on tape. maybe this coach sees it. maybe he gets fired and the next guy sees it. maybe a club looking for transfers sees it. maybe the team talks you up.

    last thought, i agree with landon as a general principle and it's the way to roll. however GB seems like a high water mark for sorting out the lineups and pecking order abstractly in his head. that would take a few games to correct. sargent was one of the better players in a bad game. i am not 100% sold you play well or bad and it clicks with this coach. trapp. QED. he has ideas in his head overriding what we all see.
     
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  5. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    On the spectrum?
     
  6. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    we are discussing the match against panama wed not the match three weeks ago against portland

    he created very little and lost the ball way too much he was terrible he wasn't solid in anyway at all. If you think he was solid...how would you grade pulisic against t&t...greatest you've ever seen in a single match?

    watch more games and less highlights.
     
  7. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    the point is the people that are 'penciling' him in haven't watched him either.

    if ur case he is correct you are looking at the league he is playing in and you think he must be good, thats bad.
     
  8. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    better then week...doesn't mean solid

    it was poor on one side and weaker on the other.
     
  9. Baysider

    Baysider Member+

    Jul 16, 2004
    Santa Monica
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    You mean psychologically? No idea.
     
  10. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    This is where I get into the star system and my feeling that connects up to snobbery. Yes you expect more from a star. But if Landon didn't track back on a goal no one used to mince words. And thus was born Landycakes.

    But, in short, you earned your stardom and everyone got treated equally.

    But it feels like it has changed now, people are loathe to criticize the key players like Pulisic and Steffen. And I personally think that links up with the snobbery thing of "But he plays at ManCity and is our star ___________." Historically club affiliation got you in the door and then you earned it from there with play. Some players like Kirovski or Cooper, who in theory had great CVs, did not turn out as well as some who never left MLS, eg, Eddie Pope. It was decided on the field.

    Now, we're doing more cheerleading. And the cheerleaders take a long time to admit someone has an off day or sucks. it messes with their world view.

    I also feel like this has an effect downroster. The real lineup and roster decisions are at the margins. Those are the real important ones. The focus has shifted to the obvious. That Pulisic is in the Gold Cup is mere marketing. We all knew that already. Are we really even going to have to debate the position he plays?

    It's getting more rare that a Landon Donovan issue arises. Sargent was gone quickly like a light fart smell. I don't know if this is good because it lets the coach basically work in his own head and not be accountable to fans and the media.

    Maybe some of this is the weird combo of a team that didn't qualify -- and thus less media -- crossed with a new coach and the leftovers of JK club snobbery.
     
  11. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Agree to disagree.
     
  12. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Saw the game twice. Roldan will continue to get caps. Take care.
     
  13. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The same people poor mouthing an overhead kick game winner are up in arms that Bobby Warshaw dares to say Pulisic has not been great in every game.

    On that note, is there such thing in sports as great every game? I was at a Jordan game where he could not buy a bucket.
     
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  14. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    Kind of. It's not what he says, he is there for what he can say. It's more how he does it. How he looks when other people talk. Really odd duck.
     
  15. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Please. I don’t recall people asking if Jordan deserved an automatic starting spot
     
  16. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I watched the whole game live and with no beer goggles. My first thoughts after that game, which I posted in this thread, were that Roldan was actually good on both sides of the ball, and created several good chances that came to nothing. I'm not now, nor have I ever been, a Roldan fan. But, I think he was top 3 for us in that game.
     
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  17. CMeszt

    CMeszt Member+

    Farewell Sweet Prince
    Jan 9, 2004
    Gentrification's Apex.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Yeah, but if you spend your twitter energy going after MLS studio guys, you'll be taking your eye off the ball on the goal of tweeting your way to promotion and relegation in US Soccer! And you're SOOOO close!
     
  18. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jordan was, during his playing years, considered to be the best player ever by most people. There are only 5 players on the court, and subs can happen as often as you want, so you can play him less if he's having an off night. Still, there are probably Argentina fans who argue that Messi shouldn't be automatic--and there's no doubt in my mind that he's the best player that has ever played the game. When Pulisic is considered to be the best player ever (even in the history of the USMNT program), then it would be appropriate to say he deserves an automatic starting spot. And, even if he does deserve an auto starting spot now or ever, he can still be criticized. Every great player gets criticized, if only because they are the focal point of attention.
     
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  19. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    #294 DHC1, Jun 28, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2019
    If some fans say it, it’s one thing. This is a reporter.

    The concept that Pulisic isn’t a core building block is ludicrous as is an MLS paid reporter slagging him by saying he hasn’t deserved a starting spot.

    Has Warsaw aimed his withering pen on the fact that we’re also building around Bradley? I see this wonderful article:

    https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019...el-bradley-remains-top-option-gregg-berhalter

    Yep - no bias here....
     
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  20. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Or just a man who cannot resist his bias.
     
  21. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Everyone can be criticized. No man, or man's work, is perfection itself. No one is immune from criticism......
    ..... That said, anyone who claims right now that Pulisic is not a clear starter for this, current, USMNT is as clear eyed as Chamberlain and as sharp of mind as Derek Zoolander.
     
  22. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    repped because Roldan has faults, like you imply, but he was fine in the Panama game. He put a ball on a silver platter to Jozy who proceeded to muff it yet everybody's conclusion is that Roldan should never wear the shirt again and Jozy proved he is our #1 striker.

    Go figure
     
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  23. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    roldan was no 'good on both sides of the ball'....you'd be hard pressed infact its impossible to find anyone who knows anything about the match to say roldan was good in any facet of that game.

    altidore, miazga and cannon are the only three that got passing grades in that game. Everyone else got a failing one and distinguishing among them just doesn't matter because they failed.

    what is amazing about roldans performance is that if you take away the lost battles statistically its like he didnt even play he literally had no impact on the match. if panama sat back he was able to make lateral passes but if they pressed for the ball at all he'd lose it.
     
  24. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    yeah he was fine as in a poor performance against the b team of a poor team...that is 'fine' for him but its not good.
     
  25. smokarz

    smokarz Member+

    Aug 9, 2006
    Hartford, CT


    If 3G has any decent level of IQ, which I believe he does, he will realized that he needs to move past Bradley as quickly as possible.

    Building a team around an average (at best) MLS player and over the hill USMNT player while you have EPL, BL, and Champion league starters on the roster? That is a recipe for disaster. He will quickly loose any credibility he might have with this team and roster.
     

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