Pre-match: USA v. Jamaica, Oct. 11, 2013

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by keller4president, Sep 10, 2013.

  1. SgtSchultz

    SgtSchultz Member

    Jul 11, 2001
    Parts Unknown
    There is very little time left for fringe players to make the case. Chandler, Shea and Lichaj are the 3 individuals who have the most to gain by playing in these matches. Players such as Bedoya, Diskerud and Johannson need to come to solidify their positions. The bulk of the team will come from MLS and Liga Mexico.
     
  2. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Winning the Hex gets you absolutely no prize whatsoever, so it doesn't matter. The point of qualification is to qualify. Mission accomplished. As a fan, sure, I would like to win every game. But the results of these final 2 games won't make 1 iota of difference for the United States in regards to their position vis-a-vis the World Cup. I can't conflate a source of fan pride with mattering, in the grand scheme of things.
     
  3. richmondlaw

    richmondlaw Member

    Jun 13, 2010
    Club:
    DC United
    The first to qualify wins the hex. Which we did. Who cares 9 months from now who got the most points if to do so you had to play your top 11 100%? Klinsi said he wants to win these last 2 games, but he can have that attitude with a different squad. That's what he did with the Gold Cup, he took the B team and still expected them to win. He won't give any squad the excuse of not being starters for losing a game. His message to them will be "go out there and show me that you should be starting".
     
  4. FirstStar

    FirstStar Hustlin' for the USA

    Fulham Football Club
    Feb 1, 2005
    Time's Arrow
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Personally, I agree with you. However, I strongly think that Jurgen would disagree with you. I think he wants to win the Hex. It's a real competition and I think he likes to win and likes what winning meaningful games does for his own reputation, the psyche of this team and USSoccer in general. That's why I think he will play to win. People expecting a U-16 squad for Panama to screw Mexico are going to be disappointed.

    That said, if we win the Hex on the 11th, which is a real possibility, then I can see Jurgen thinking more strategically and banking favors (or even cutting deals) by releasing players back to clubs.
     
  5. FlipsLikeAPancake

    Jul 6, 2010
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why do you think this?

    He hasn't been with the national team recently because of form and losing playing time, not because he has commitment issues.

    We've got lots of guys who stopped getting call ups to the national team when their club form suffered due to lack of playing time or injuries, only to make national team returns (sometimes years later): Bedoya, Beasley, Johnson, Parkhurst, Castillo). We also have guys like Beckerman, Evans and Davis that played for years between call ups.

    Chandler is also only 23 years old. We've got guys that didn't get their first cap until years after 23.

    My point is it's way too early to count him out. He might not play his way onto the 2014 team, but he's still young.
     
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  6. COMtnGuy

    COMtnGuy Member+

    Apr 5, 2012
    Higher than you
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We will just have to wait and see then. :)
     
  7. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Besler and Zusi are both likely to go 90 for KC, in a game they will likely need for playoff positioning. If they do, what possibly good would they be on 1 day of rest? And why on earth would a club coach sit them in a game that does matter so they can play USMNT game that doesn't matter just because it is in their home stadium? That would be ridiculous. JK didn't call up Chad Marshall for the Mexico game (not the same thing, I know, but you get the point).

    Besler and Zusi are both known quantities. JK does't need to evaluate them as much as some of the less utilized players during his tenure. Maybe Zusi for the Panama game, but not Besler for either. Too tired for Jamaica and red cards DO carry over. Can you imagine losing a starter for a game in the WC because he got a red in the last, meaningless qualifier? No way. Not worth it.
     
  8. TrjnsSUC

    TrjnsSUC Member

    Jun 13, 2001
    Bay Area
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can see how I wasn't very clear. I know games with Jamaica and Panama do not matter much for qualifying or standings (though finishing first in Hex would be a nice statement). I do think the results matter. We have no reason to send a B/C team out there to Panama who would never play together 9 months from now anyways. We have no reason to worry about injury anymore than we do if they play 20-30 club games between now and June. What we don't have and will never have is the luxury of TIME to play together as top squad, especially (!!!) in an environment like Panama where the result will matter to them. We have a handful of friendly dates after Oct 15th which will be far less competitive than these two games. We need to keep working as a group to get better amongst the A-teamers because opportunities are so few and far between. The train to Brazil should be full steam ahead without these silly lulls of letting so many brand new faces play. (As I said, that process should begin August 2014)

    I liken it to the baseball or basketball team that clinches the division an entire 2-3 weeks before playoffs begin and then "rest" their starters for so long that they go on this losing streak before the "real" games begin again. We need momentum, we need A team continuity. CRC game was a disaster. I know this is a rough comparison to baseball because of the time factor of the WC being many months away, but how terrible would it look for us to go from Panama game having dropped two straight WCQ games to our next meaningful match 9 months later? Meaningless for points, yes....meaningless for cohesiveness, absolutely not.

    Make 2-3 changes for the sake of the current A-team bench guys to play, but bring the core in and lets steamroll Jamaica like we're supposed to and then prove we can win at least one this cycle in Central America.
     
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  9. keller4president

    Jan 5, 2006
    Frankly I disagree with all of your reasoning. Playing 2 games 7 months before the World Cup isn't going to make a difference one way or another in terms of "chemistry". The A-Team has had plenty of games together the last two years, and will have a number of friendlies in Spring 2014 (and a full month of training together before the WC itself) to get ready.
     
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  10. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    #110 Bob Morocco, Sep 12, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2013
    You're trying to maintain momentum for a tournament that's 9 months away, where no matter what happens the team will go months at a time without playing with each other? A large part of the momentum we built up involved getting our B team playing at a high enough tempo to crush bunkering minnows and control bunkering hex squads. Players 12-35 are all competing to either start or make the team, when are you going to evaluate them? If Klinsmann believes it takes multiple camps to get players up to speed and familiar with his approach then how is he going to properly evaluate challengers for positions we're weak at if he doesn't give them time to acclimate?

    Leave Landon, Clint, Mike, Jozy, Tim, Fabian, and Jermain with their club teams. Maybe bring in Omar and Matt for one game each and give Brooks a taste.
     
  11. RossD

    RossD Member+

    Aug 17, 2013
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Our starting CB's have very few caps and very few games together. They need as many games as possible. There is absolutely no reason to bring guys in who have no shot at making the team. Start Guzan so he can get some games under his belt and then start 7-8 regulars and 2-3 non starters. Guys like Mix, AJ and Bedoya or Corona. The only ones who have a shot at making the team that didn't play any games this summer are AJ and Brooks. That's it.
     
  12. Athlone

    Athlone Member+

    Feb 2, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    Jamaica
    If you guys have any questions about the Jamaica team you'll face, feel free to ask. A lot has changed since our last match and much of that change has been for the better, but it's probably come too late in the cycle to really help us out barring a miracle. Qualification is out of our hands now.

    Correct. We need to win in KC and then win at home against Honduras. We also need a draw between Mexico and Panama, followed by another Mexico loss on the 15th and a destruction of Panama by you guys on that same day.

    This is the only scenario that would get us 4th place. If either Mexico or Panama get a win (or even 2 draws given our poor goal difference), we're out. If we don't win both of these games, we're out.

    So, with that being said, I have two requests for you Americans:

    1. Experiment on Oct. 11. Experiments are fun! Try new (and totally unproven) ideas and personnel. Please.

    2. Destroy Panama. Please.
     
  13. RossD

    RossD Member+

    Aug 17, 2013
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Does anyone else wish the Concacaf representatives to the WC were the US and then Caribean nations? Jamaica and Trinidad and Tobago are always classy and don't pull the crap that the Central American nations fans pull. They support their team but don't do the vile and disgusting things you find in CA.
    I always route for those teams. And usually they try to play good soccer.
     
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  14. John McGuirk

    John McGuirk Member+

    Jun 12, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I hope to see these names for the last two:

    Bedoya
    Diskerud
    Johannsson
    Brooks
    Lichaj
    Chandler
    Shea
    Corona
     
  15. TrjnsSUC

    TrjnsSUC Member

    Jun 13, 2001
    Bay Area
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think you can bring newbies to the USMNT WCQs and acclimate them in two games. Between now and June, there will be no better place to prepare than this away Panama game. The games we play in May as our "send off " tour are always so pointless.....and it is then when injury worries are legit. Momentum for a tourney 9 months away is far fetched, I know, but it speaks to the point that this team is together so rarely. The only guys who should be considered for these last two games are those who have been brought into training camps since the first honduras game last Feb. Let the A team bench guys start Jamaica game and acclimate with a few vets, but then lets put a squad out there that can prove we can win in a difficult environment four days later. panamas "golden" generation will be playing the game for everything.
     
  16. Scotty

    Scotty Member+

    Dec 15, 1999
    Toscana
    What can you tell us about the guy who scored the late equalizer for Jamaica against Costa Rica?
     
  17. Statman

    Statman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agree 100%. Not only that, I don't want to risk an Onyewu type injury to one of our likely starters.

    Give the kids and the fringe guys a shot to play in these games. I don't want Jozy, Clint, LD, Jones, Bradley, Fabian, Beaz, Omar, Cameron, Besler, etc. anywhere near the pitch for these remaining qualifiers.
     
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  18. miggly

    miggly Member

    Jan 25, 2000
    NYC
    With our current weakness at RB, hoping Chandler gets a shot to redeem himself, provided he gets some playing time in next few weeks.
     
  19. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks for the info. But you do realize, if we bring an experimental roster to the game for you guys, then the same roster goes to Panama.

    I'll echo the thoughts of RossD on the stand up nature of the Caribbean squads. But, as a Crew fan, I'm a bit biased to T&T (Stern John, Ansil Elcock) and, to a lesser extent, Jamaica as well (Jeff Cunningham, Andy Williams). Personally, I was hoping for the USA/Mex + CA + Caribbean nation to make it.

    Real longshot, but don't give up. Stranger things have happened. Just look at the scenario the USA had going into the last game of the Confed Cup in 2009. All we had to do was win, and Italy lose, and gain 6 goals worth of GD in the process. And we got it.
     
  20. Mario Balotelli

    Mario Balotelli Member+

    United States
    Feb 28, 2012
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Some guys I'd like to see JK bleed into the team and expose to the WCQ environment, especially on the road in Panama: Klute, Yedlin, Lichaj, Garza, S. Williams, Arriola, Okugo, Rowe

    Why?
    - Klute has been arguably the best LB in MLS and does a lot of things well while offering good size and athleticism defensively. He knows when to get forward and sends some nice crosses. He plays LB week in and week out.
    - Yedlin's been getting better defensively and most of us know how menacing he can be getting forward. Fast tracking him as soon as possible is in our best interest with our gaping hole RB. What better time to throw him in the mix?
    - Lichaj - this has been discussed ad nauseam.
    - Garza gets a good bit of playing time at Xolos with and without Castillo. He's strongly built and more solid defensively than Castillo. He's another true LB who's young and has impressed in his minutes.
    - Arriola - I was ridiculing the notion of him getting called up to the senior team a few weeks ago but the more I watch him, the more I think he can make an impact at this level. He's a true winger with a ton of potential and it wouldn't hurt for him to see what WCQ is all about even if he never sees the pitch.
    - Rowe's been in great form for the Revs and can really unload from distance and offers some dynamic play centrally.
    - Sheanon Williams is one of the more underrated players in the MLS in my opinion. He can play all across the backline, an able defender, solid passer, and offers bonus set piece chances with his long throws.
    - Okugo is another young CB who's been statistically one of the best in the league. *Union will probably be in the playoffs

    I excluded older guys whose MLS teams might be in the playoffs or European veterans/guys in important stretches of the season.

    The 23:
    GK: Guzan, S. Johnson, Kennedy
    CB: Goodson, Brooks, Orozco, Okugo
    FB: Lichaj, Yedlin, S. Williams, Garza, Klute
    CM: D. Williams, Edu, Kljestan, Diskerud
    AM: Bedoya, Arriola, Rowe, Shea
    FWD: Boyd, Johannsson, Agudelo/Wondolowski
     
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  21. Athlone

    Athlone Member+

    Feb 2, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    Jamaica
    Jermaine Anderson (known around the nation as "Tuffy") is a forward who plays in the Red Stripe Premier League for Waterhouse FC. He's about 34 years old and has been the leading scorer in that league for the past two seasons. He is by far the biggest name in domestic Jamaican football and garners by far the most support of any player in our squad.



    Tuffy had talent as a youth but had a hard head and so largely squandered it. This is why he has never really left the island. He's got his act more together now but is too old to go overseas at this point. He was last in the national set-up back in December for the Caribbean Cup (the Caribbean tournament that determines which nations go to the Gold Cup) and didn't really do much. Because of that, he was not included in any of the squads to begin the hex. Fans on the island were so upset about this that they started protesting and blocking roads.

    http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/latestnews/Tuffy-fans-protest-striker-s-exclusion-from-Boyz-team



    As I said, this is unique-no other jamaican footballer's exclusion would create that kind of uproar. Tappa Whitmore never included Tuffy, but our new German coach decided to keep him for our most recent qualifiers. Tuffy didn't play against Panama, but he did get a run in the 68th minute against Costa Rica. I figured it was just to appease the fans ("cycle's over, so what the hell?"), but lo and behold, the man scored.

    Tuffy has serious issues relating to his fitness and composure as a player that keep him from reaching a top professional standard (he's very much a "corner league balla" as we like to refer to those players who just aren't cut out for play outside the Jamaican league) but he is a good goal scorer/finisher. Our new coach seems to have been intrigued by him and rightfully so, so we may see more of him.

    Yep. I'd be hoping in that case that said "experimental" roster is used in both games and is more effective in the second than the first.

    Like I said, its a longshot for us to qualify, but all I can do at this point is hope and pray.

    What about Shaun Francis? ;)

    Yeah. Actually, even more recently, we kind of backed into this hex. Going into the last match against Antigua in the last round, we needed Guatemala to lose and then had to beat Antigua by at least 3 goals. And we managed it.
    Like i said, possible and I'm going to hope, but we can't count on miracles every time we play football. I just wish Coach Schaeffer had shown up a few months earlier. Had he been available for the entir hex we'd probably realistically be on 6, 7 or 8 points right now. If he hangs around for the next 5 years and is allowed to do what he has to do, I feel good about our chances for 2018 at least.
     
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  22. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    I don't think it's wise to let past mistakes dictate future decisions. Soccer is a weak link game, right now we are going to be weak in the fullback spots. Should we be locked into only reaching down as far as Corey Ashe or Tony Beltran because they have already firmly established their weak link credentials. I don't think Yedlin, Ferrell, or Klute will be ready in time for the World Cup, but they've been superior to alternates already tested and have certain inherent qualities that give them higher ceilings. What I do know is that Parkhurst, Castillo, and Orozco will be our weak links while Evans and Beasley need to continue to step up just to be do no harm type options. Personally I'm ok with none of those MLS guys getting a callup for WCQ, they'd be there largely to experience camp. Lichaj is a different story, same with Agudelo.
     
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  23. Chance

    Chance Member+

    Minnesota United FC
    United States
    Apr 5, 2012
    Minneapolis, Minnesota
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I remember watching a video about the Jamaican team before the USA-Jamiaca June match. Cool to see that Jamaican league legend Tuffy got to actually play!
     
  24. TrjnsSUC

    TrjnsSUC Member

    Jun 13, 2001
    Bay Area
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What I do like about the Klinsy era in comparison to Bradley's roster decisions four years ago is that he likes a core group of vets almost every time. I thought his mix of players for the gold cup was brilliant....and look where it got us. Bradley's roster for the final WCQ in 2009 against CRC was questionable at best AND it did nothing for us except give false confidence to Bradley on what Bornstein could do. I don't buy the risk of an Onyewu type injury as a reason to not bring other vets in for Jamaica and panama. Those types of injuries can happen at anytime with the player's clubs. I think we'll see a good group play Jamaica with logical A Team choices such as local man Zuzi. Johannson has to be given a look and what better time to cap tie brooks?! Give Mix more time at CM and allow Besler to get on the pitch again after his unjust suspension. But lets do the sporting thing here in the spirit of the HEX and play to win these games with a squad who can do it both home and away.
     
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  25. an1310

    an1310 Member+

    Jun 2, 2003
    Atlanta, GA
    To be fair to Bradley, we weren't qualified by the Honduras game, so the only group we had were vets. Bradley also wanted to "win" the Hex, out of sporting pride...And we all remember what happened before the CRC game...
     

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