Post-match: USA v France

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by FirstStar, Jun 9, 2018.

  1. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    But he did get there by 22 which I bring up because the second mistake we make here is in failing to tag guys coming out of college in 20/22 yr range and get them going on the fast track. It's not like it's going to be dozens of players. Maybe there's 3 or 4. Get them into camp. Talk to their club coaches. Why is Chelsea so successful in breeding talent? They stay in touch with players sent out on loan and watch every game of loanees and send them critiques. We could do the same if we had a similar institutional framework at USSF, i.e., a Technical Director(Department) separate from USMNT manager.
     
  2. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    According to SBI Soccer geniuses, Adams was MOTM
    https://sbisoccer.com/2018/06/sbi-usmnt-man-of-the-match-tyler-adams
    They added that Robinson, Moore, Steffen and Parker rec'd honorable mentions.

    No mention of Miazga.
     
  3. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    intermountain west
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Adams was in no way MOTM. Most here get that. We just have some serious MLS homers on board that have blinders on. Adams is a long way from the next great thing IMO but he's getting pushed there by a contingent of posters. I liked what I saw from Trapp more and I'm not a believer in Trapp starting for long.

    Steffen deserves mention and Miazga should be a solid mention too. For sure someone in the back 5-6 deserves the MOTM tag.

    Robinson gave me pause but not MOTM stuff, just real excited for his future kind of thing.
     
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  4. smokarz

    smokarz Member+

    Aug 9, 2006
    Hartford, CT
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  5. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Ok but Polster's position isn't right back at international level. not even close, Ditto Zusi. It was foolish of Arena to take a great midfielder who was moved by his club to right back for pecuniary reasons and play him at right back, after Zusi developed the instincts of a midfielder over a decade of pro play.

    As for hoping Adams and McKennie will develop different player character, I agree with Hillary Clinton who would say "hope is not a plan". If we want them to develop the first thing we do is play them with players who play the kind of game we want to develop. Playing Adams with McKennie and Wood is like putting the three stooges on the job because three heads are better than one.
     
  6. Lookingforleftbacks

    Galaxy
    United States
    Dec 17, 2016
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’m not really sure why they would pick Adams, but to each his own. Miazga went completely unnoticed by the announcers, and you can’t underestimate how much that means to people viewing at home. In reality, announcers probably only see about 25% of what’s actually happening in the game. That’s why it’s so important to go back and watch the game again, and with the sound off if you can’t tune them out.

    My MOTM was Steffen. Since Miazga only went 55’, no one else was even close.
     
  7. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    An interesting study would be side by side clips of Adams playing touch line as opposed to centrally. I think he took the ball right off the foot of Kante when he boxed him in near the side line. He also plays really well offensively along the touch line. I'm worried he may be starting to play badly along the touch line because he doesn't want to get tagged as a wide player.
     
  8. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It is all so subjective. Pick a player and you will have several fans say you are wrong. It depends on what you are looking for and what you value.

    If you value difference makers than it is either Green, Adams, or Steffen. They had the most impact plays. I would chose Steffen.
     
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  9. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    While I didn't believe he should have been in Brazil, I don't hold that against him. It wasn't his decision and it wasn't just him that Donovan could have replaced but any one of several players for various reasons. i felt at the time that he had a great deal of talent (from what I saw) but that he wasn't ready for Brazil. I haven't seen too much of his play since then, but I believe he has improved greatly. I know he had a very rough spell in Germany and seems to be back on track so hopefully he will continue.

    My biggest issue is the position itself. I see Pulisic as a second striker for us supported by a strong midfield with at least one good distributor. What I think we need a player that can become a playmaker. I don't see Green as that player. Pax or Carlton fit that description but they aren't ready at this point (I just mentioned them as a possibity for the future). Perhaps Hyndman would be a good replacement. I haven't seen him recently or followed him but I think he is more the type of player we need. Parks is a player that everyone has raved about as a playmaker but haven't seen him (except a little in one game that I wasn't able to really pay attention to because I was grading papers at the time) Also, I'm not saying Green should be off the 23 but that I'm not sold on him starting. I need to see more. Unfortunately, we have time to make the final decision for whoever takes the coaching job!

    The real problem, for me, is that we need a player similar to Feilhaber or Kljestan and we have several in the pipeline that have the potential to equal or surpass but they aren't ready at this point. (again, there are a few I'm not familiar enough with at this point...Parks who has seen very little time in Portugal but people rave about, Hyndman who has his supporters and detractors, perhaps Delgado and then the next generations beginning with Carlton and Pax.
     
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  10. soccerndo

    soccerndo Member

    Jan 16, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    I don’t know where you got your information on George Weah’s Age. I know he left Liberia and played in Cameroon before going to Monaco and if he said he was 22yrs then he lied.
     
  11. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #461 TheHoustonHoyaFan, Jun 12, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
    I may not have been clear. I just don't rate Carelton, Delgado, Parks, or Pax as better international-class playmakers than Green. I see both Pulisic and Green as CAMs.

    This is an odd conversation in that AC and Pax are really young and have not yet even broken into their MLS squad starting XI. Pax who IIRC is hurt could not even beat out Jacori Hayes who I have on my bench. Carelton is an even less athletic version of Green, without Julian's scoring prowess. I would wait until AC and Pax become club regulars before they are even part of a USMNT discussion.

    I like Parks and honestly believe that he reminds me of Berbatov. An ex-colleague who I trust told me that he was not very good on either side of the ball (abused is the term he used) in camp which is why he did not make the final 2 matches. He is also not ready for prime time. Let him get some first team matches under his belt and physically mature then we shall see.

    This is the first year that Green got every week consistent first team matches and it shows. A big part is just getting physically stronger and maturing enough to the point that he could play without spending time out injured.

    Check out the passes that Green made off the dribble to Nova in the Bolivia match if you are looking for evidence of Green's playmaking abilities.
     
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  12. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Read better. I said he left AFRICA at just before 22, not Liberia. I said he played for a Liberian YOUTH team at 18.
     
  13. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You need to get on the tactical cam game my friend. Only way you can actually have a legit game analysis because you can see the whole field and don't have to jump angle to angle to piece together.
     
  14. soccerndo

    soccerndo Member

    Jan 16, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Thank you for expressing your ignorance by the generalization ‘he left africa’ just before 22. He left Cameroon, to be specific, to Monaco and he was older than 22yrs of age.
     
  15. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    is there anyone who actually thinks of it as green taking donovans spot? that just seems like a fake argument green supporters love to throw out.

    wondo or davis got the spot that should have been landons. i dont remember anyone hating the idea of a, what, 18 at the time bayern-produced phenom (for all we knew at the time) in the presumed 23rd spot.

    thats such a horseshit argument.
     
  16. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In my opinion, Sarachan wants players with high tempo of play most of all, nevermind if the player can't make a 10-yard pass. Parks is not a high tempo player, meaning, if Sarachan is the coach going forward, Parks will never see the field.

    Most of you thought he had a good 1st game, once he didn't get selected for the following games those same critics thought he didn't deserve to play.
     
  17. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It isn't a generalization … it is a fact. You are using the word "generalization" in a completely erroneous context. I used Africa, instead of Liberia, because the only points of reference I needed was where he was at age 18 (Liberia) and the time that he got to a big European club (22 to Monaco). The specific African country he went in between was of no consequence to my argument. It is irrelevant. Are you from Cameroon and mad that I didn't mention his specific team? Whatever the case, get over it. Secondly, if he was OLDER than 22 when he went to Monaco (because you say he lied about his age, which of course you cannot prove), that only further proves the point I was making …. which is that his son Timothy and many of the other young unknowns on the US have PLENTY of time to become great players.
     
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  18. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    #468 ussoccer97531, Jun 12, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
    This thread has really gone off the deep end.

    We have people claiming Julian Green and his one career pro assist in 2818 pro minutes is a better playmaker than Carleton who already has more assists (two) in only 196 pro minutes. Carleton is a less athletic version of Green with less scoring prowess, even though Green has absolutely no scoring prowess and Carleton his whole career (so far) has. Green couldn’t shine Carleton’s shoes. Green is 23 and playing poorly in the second division of Germany after starting off his career at the best club in that country. Safe to say he’s not lived up to the hype.

    And then people are claiming Tyler Adams getting undo hype is the fault of MLS, even though the hype is coming from outside sources. Is it MLS’s fault that US Soccer has bad decision makers who keep putting Adams in roles and positions he has shown he can’t fill? No, it’s not. That’s on the USSF marketing department that tries to tell us he’s the new Ngolo Kante.
     
  19. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Now your frustration is showing. All the players in camp can pass the ball. The difference at this level is can they pass under pressure, off the dribble.

    It really does not matter what Sarachan or critics or fanboys think. Parks will have a chance starting in preseason to make his case at Benfica or even at a loan. If he is getting quality minutes and doing well he will be back to another camp. He is still just shy of 21.

    The same with Weah. Sarachan after the Bolivia match, made some somewhat unflattering comments about Weah and did not play him v France. TW will make his case and could also be back in camp this fall.
     
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  20. vexco

    vexco Member+

    Nov 2, 2013
    lol
     
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  21. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    The problem for an exec with a big Euro team holding $m in cash for the transfer season is that he doesn't know if Adams could be convinced to play a different role and when he says he wants to be Kante they look at Adams and think "he's no Kante, even if we wanted a Kante which we don't".
     
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  22. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    I was thinking of the result we had v. Mexico @ Azteca and v. France in Lyons with the 532 then thinking how Tab Ramos had set the 4 man back line as the default formation for youth teams and how important that was. Should we be happy he didn't take the interim tag which repelled him? Hopefully Sarachan now understands how running the ball thru midfield like a lacrosse player at this level aint goin' to work.

    I'd like to think the 3 cb formation could be a permanent thing for USMNT. The youth teams have a dearth of cb's b.t.w. It's a good thing that we have a relatively young cb squad because the U17's played Durkin at CB with Sands. I don't think either one will be replacing Glad, EPB, CCV, Miazga, Parker, Brooks,
     
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  23. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Your posts are so out of touch with reality. There is not a single top European club that would not buy Kante whose market value is currently > E60MM.

    Several clubs including Roma and Monaco who sent scouts to the France match are tracking Adams because they believe Tyler could be the next Kante.
     
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  24. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    I think You are completely misunderstanding me. Or I am not being clear. I never intended to say or in anyway indicate that Carlton and Pax are anywhere near where they need to be to compete for a spot on the national team. I don't even consider them in the pool right now. I only mentioned them as possibly being the type of player that could be used for the future. the fact that you see Green as a starter and i am not sold on him is a fairly minor quibble I believe. You may be right. I mentioned that I am not as familiar with him at the moment as you seem to be. I see him as a different type of player than you do but that is a matter of opinion and as I said, you may very well be right.

    When I asked at the beginning, I thought your lineup was pretty good and I wanted to see what you thought if the choices were expanded beyond teh camp. I still think your choices were pretty good. My opinions differ slightly and I was offering them but didn't mean it as a criticism. Our opinions obviously differ but that is ok.

    I really do appreciate your answer.
     
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  25. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    And Pulisic is worth E$45M. Gimme a break. There's marketing and then there's actual soccer. Like they play at Real Madrid.
    https://www.transfermarkt.com/schnellsuche/ergebnis/schnellsuche?query=Pulisic&x=0&y=0
     

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