Post-match: USA v. Canada

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by dlokteff, Nov 16, 2019.

  1. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    New low.

    I have to start post game thread 4 hours after match.

    Wake up USSF. This fan base is on the brink.

    Here's what I said in the thread that might have been the quasi-post game one, but I've seen 5 or six complaints about no post game so, here you go:

    So this I guess is the post game thread?

    Another low. USSOCCER wake up.

    On this game, we got we we needed and should. Was it impressive? Nah, but at this point we'll take it.

    I liked...

    Hate to say it but Jar Jar Zardes - had a nice game. Not just the two goals, but he had several other nice runs/touches/moments. I guess we have to give credit here.

    Morris - continues to produce. Limited player, but gets results.

    LLetget - This is the addition most wanted and got. And it paid dividends. Clear ability to impact the game offensively.

    Long - Excellent finish. Good defensively as well.

    Dest - Welcome addition of skill. Wasn't game breaking tonight, but you can see it lurking.

    Nuetral on most:

    Yuiell - Impressed with his defensive interventions. The "diagonals" went missing.
    Arriola - One good pass to Morris. That's it.
    Brooks - fine
    Ream - not a LB
    Guzan - One nice save actually, hits and misses on distribution.

    Mckennie- starting to worry here. Does he have Timmy Chandler disease and can't travel?
  2. #1 Feilhaber and Adu

    Aug 1, 2007
    proving Michael Bradley's only claim to be in this team, is obsolete. What we need to win, is a some defense in our core, not Traffic cones.

    If Tyler Adams is at RB, Yedlin at RW and Bradley at DM. Then its time for the players to get a lawyer.
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  3. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    United States
    May 12, 2019
    General Thoughts:
    • Most welcome change was the defensive intensity and counterpress. If there was one thing I'd have had Berhalter change it was the defense, and the counterattacks it brings. And he did. We'll see if it works against better teams, but just playing defense like that and not the crap we've seen before is enough to make this team qualify. Who says Berhalter can't change?
    • I don't love Zardes, but if the reason he started is because he was going to work harder than Sargent, I'm all for it. This team WORKED -- and it was the biggest change to all the prior games. We shouldn't be playing anyone not bringing that intensity, no matter the pedigree. Sargent will respond and take his spot, but people should admit that Gregg was right about a lot of things today, and one of them was Zardes starting.
    • Speaking of people who maybe should lose their spot because of lack of intensity, will someone ask Weston McKennie when he will bring any to a USMNT game? Disappointed in him today.
    • Brooks was fantastic. He was far from perfect, but his ability to stop the vast majority of balls over the top was key in shutting down Canada and made the rest of the pressure mean something.
    • Lletget finally got to start and show why he deserves some time with this team. Played D, dynamic on the counter ... just needs to finish that sitter. But people get mad at me when I pooh pooh the idea of Julian Green. And it's because Julian Green couldn't do ANY of that today. Will Lletget be effective against better teams? Who knows? But Green simply cannot move at the pace that Sebastian does.
    • The weirdest comments I heard/saw were people saying they were surprised by Yeuill's fight. Has no one seen a Quakes game? This is everyone who plays for Almeyda -- that insane, pissed off immediate psychotic fight to win back a ball is a hallmark. I still don't think he has the athleticism to do it against top flight talent, but the dude is an absolute bulldog if directed.
    • This game doesn't mean all the problems are fixed, but I've seen a lot of comments that this wasn't 4-1. It absolutely was, and it could have been much worse for Canada. The US had the vast majority of good scoring chances, and missed a few easy goals. That they were primarily driven by turnovers forced is not a bad thing -- it's a good sign that maybe we will see more of it in the future.
    • People wanted to see if Berhalter could change. This gameplan absolutely said that he can. I know for most people that's personnel and only the offense (and the latter was much different as well), but he clearly demonstrated things can change when needed. This is the smart pragmatist I remember from MLS, frankly.
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  4. VBCity72

    VBCity72 Member+

    Aug 17, 2014
    Oki, J-pan
    Plymouth Argyle FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Bueller, Bueller, Bueller...

    The fact that the pre-match thread has only 12 posts and the post-match thread only has 4 post is deafening.
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  5. Bite o' the Cherry

    May 3, 2006
    Charlotte, NC, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I suppose it's because posts like gogorath's above -- and I guess the game itself -- doesn't follow general trends around here. For fun (and, yes, also in the hope of a little actual analysis), I read through the game thread (which served as the pre-match thread...) after the fact: the first six pages before kickoff were the most depressingly hateful and negative that a community of posters can muster, then, BOOM, we score and for the next five pages it's GO USA! and The Canucks are going DOWN! We are such human beings.
    Anyway, it's a long process. I can't wait to see how the U23's gel and sure as hell can't wait to see Tyler Adams on the pitch again.
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  6. FeedhimtothepigsArold

    Apr 7, 2014
    Oxford United FC
    #6 FeedhimtothepigsArold, Nov 16, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2019
    The Mckennie narrative is interesting. Its been brewing for a while among certain circles. Be interesting to see who it benefits. I was at the game and I didnt feel like he was as bad as suggested.

    Interesting that you dug deep to trash Green. Llegett can be praised without trashing a player who has pretty much been iced out of the system. Green isnt threatening anybody on this team with the leadership in place. You also have no concrete proof/analysis that Green cant move at the same pace as Llegett. He simply hasnt been seen in the 'system' at the same volume. Also, the sitter that Llegett missed....Green probably buries.

    USMNT benefited from clueless concacaf coaching. Herdman should have stayed with as close to the same lineup and formation he had last game. He outsmarted himself.
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  7. juveeer

    juveeer Member+

    Aug 3, 2006
    This right here:

    • The weirdest comments I heard/saw were people saying they were surprised by Yeuill's fight. Has no one seen a Quakes game? This is everyone who plays for Almeyda -- that insane, pissed off immediate psychotic fight to win back a ball is a hallmark. I still don't think he has the athleticism to do it against top flight talent, but the dude is an absolute bulldog if directed...."
    Closest thing we have had to a true regista since Reyna.

    That is what 3Gs wants in that role, not a destroyer. Yueill gives some D bite too to go along with his superior orchestration. He is only gonna get better.
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  8. juveeer

    juveeer Member+

    Aug 3, 2006
    I am with you on Green.

    Poor kid has been buried because of the perception he took Landy's spot. Redic, but this is our "leadership."
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  9. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member

    Oct 14, 2007
    As a 55 year player of team sports and a coach for for some of that time, I agree that as a rule consistently aggressive defense can cure a lot of ills. But I don’t agree with the notion that anyone who isn’t a bulldog on D shouldn’t play regardless, especially in this particular team sport, where a few moments of creative magic can determine the outcome.

    I am persuaded about Yuell, and was already on board with Lletget. I think people are reading too many negatives into this McKennie performance. And more generally, we are supposed to dominate Canada. This win brings us back to the disappointing level of underachievement we were at before we lost to Canada. If this formula produces victories over Mexico 50% of the time then GB can congratulate himself on getting us back to where we should be anyway. And I’d take that heading into WC.
  10. FirstStar

    FirstStar Hustlin' for the USA

    Feb 1, 2005
    Time's Arrow
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We finally played direct and it worked. I see this as a vindication game for Big Soccer, not GGG. He heard what we have been saying and finally did it and . . . It worked. Funny that.

    Perhaps that has been his evil plan all along. Play like absolute shit for a very long time, and then we really caught the Canadians napping when we needed it! I love it when a plan comes together.
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  11. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Good rebound game. Effort, sharpness, and the right amount of controlled intensity all there. Morris excellent again, he's really been leading the way for the last few months. Hopefully the away loss to Canada was a lesson learned.
    jnielsen repped this.
  12. Felix Herve Caroll

    Jun 1, 2015
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    Ivory Coast
    Team USA is a young and inexperienced team.I expected a tough
    game yesterday, without Pulisic and Bradley. But I was amazed by the early goal.
    Strengths: Attack
    Weakness: Mildfield
  13. frankburgers

    frankburgers Member+

    May 31, 2016
    Gk is 35
    CBs 26&27
    Lb 32
    Fwd 28
    Cm 27
    Lw 25

    Not exactly young.

    Canada is bad. USA looked not good. Berhalter out !!!!
  14. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member

    Sporting KC
    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    If a bunch of fans could figure out that this team’s strength was direct play, pressing, and countering, that says a lot about Gregg and Earnie that they took this long to try it.
  15. vexco

    vexco Member+

    Nov 2, 2013
    Sure he can...and has.
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  16. AutoPenalti

    AutoPenalti Am I famous yet?

    Sep 26, 2011
    Coconut Creek
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This game doesn’t tell me any thing other than Canada playing with nerves away from home and being displaced by a somewhat better opponent.

    Second half just reminded me of Beerholder ball.
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  17. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Without Bradley?
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  18. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It seems every third or fourth game McKennie's passing is off. I thought defensively he was pretty good but not sure how passing can come and go. I wonder if he doesn't get overwrought before some games and tries too hard when he should just relax a bit. It never seems to be an effort thing so maybe too much effort = off passing? Pulisic has a bit of this with the national team too. Perhaps they need to learn that just because you're one of the few players from a big league you still need to play within the team. Wonder if JJ did this at this age.
  19. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    #19 DHC1, Nov 16, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2019
    I brought this up before the game! We haven’t scored off a direct since 2017 apparently while 43% of World Cup goals were off set piece goals and we have elite aerial players. It goes against the concept of “brave” “pro-active” attractive play that Berhalter aspires to but this should be an area of strength that we play to. Opposing teams should be scared to give up corners to us - that would actually have a big impact on our ability to create space during the game.

    Coach does get credit for playing more direct and pressing higher up the field. We lost possession by a large margin and still won handily. I think our much improve spacing and intensity is a huge positive consequence of not having Bradley/trapp as our regista as we don’t have to compensate for the defensive deficiencies by compacting our shape.

    Let’s see what happens when Bradley returns. I’m worried.
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  20. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member

    Sporting KC
    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    I read several articles last year, including this one, that highlighted Gareth Southgate’s emphasis on set pieces in an international setting to the point where he studied what NBA basketball coaches were doing on out of bounds plays.

    Southgate gets it when it comes to understanding the international game.
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  21. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Oh, good lord, the conspiracy theory shit is amazing.

    McKennie didn't bring the intensity of the other players last night. He was also Captain Backpass, but he plays in Europe so it's cool. He also committed the worst turnover of the night.

    He's still a very valuable player but he's put very few complete games together for the USMNT. That's just reality.

    I didn't dig deep to trash Green. I've had several discussion recently with several posters about him so it was super relevant.

    If you think Green is the type of guy to receive, turn and start a high paced counter, you've never watched Julian Green with the USMNT or club.

    Maybe? But the biggest different between the two games was our defensive choices and intensity. The fact that few people can even acknowledge that is telling.
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  22. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I hope you are right, but I think Yeuill has some physical limitations that will show up against Mexico and better teams.

    That spot needs to be Adams'. And if we play a double pivot, the other spot needs to be McKennie. Despite my frustration with his play, he's still so much more talented than Yeuill. We just need both healthy and playing focused.
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  23. UncagedGorilla

    Sep 22, 2009
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    For me, the difference came down to two things:

    1 - Gregg showed a willingness to be pragmatic... finally. I've been a vocal critic and even made some regrettable comments about hoping we looked poor assuming we were going to do the same things. I give Gregg credit. All of our goals came from direct attacks. Canada basically played right into Gregg's gameplan. He definitely had the element of surprise working in his favor. Credit where credit is due. Now, will he show a willingness to see how well parts of this tactical shift worked going forward?

    2 - The midfield:
    • Lletget is a big improvement over Roldan. I've taken some flack on here for suggesting he should be starting. I don't think Lletget is a star but I think he's the only guy in our pool who can even do a fair impression of a 10. He did last night. It was massive for our success. Very much kept Canada honest.
    • Yuell is a big improvement over Bradley. Look, the 6 should still be Adams spot but Yuell has admittedly surprised me in a positive way. I assumed he was the next white, suburbanite soccer savior who was being pushed on us by USSF but I was wrong. He is not a traffic cone on defense and sprung several counters with a quick pass that wasn't a long diagonal! He can be Adams backup for me going forward. He's rangy enough and willing to make tackles that he won't be a net loss for us like Trapp and Bradley are.
    Several of us discussed how we don't have a functional midfield largely because we have been playing three 8's. Last night, we played a guy who isn't really a 6 but can do a reasonable impression of the part (Yuell) and another guy who isn't a true 10 but can play the part to a degree (Lletget) and it was the best our midfield has looked under Gregg. That's no coincidence. Imagine if we had an Adams, McKennie, Ledezma (as the starting 10 at PSV) midfield in 2022. I hope we keep this formula.
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  24. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    United States
    May 12, 2019
    There may be a place for someone who isn't a bulldog, but you can't have more than 1 or at most 2. And one of those slots is reserved for Pulisic. So unless you are very talented, you better play D.

    What does reading too many negatives into McKennie's performance mean? I think he lacked intensity and focus. He's still uber talented, still should be a long term starter and is still part of our core. He just needs to bring it.

    Right now all I'm focused on is being good enough to qualify in 10 months. Everything else is secondary. That's not a great standard but since it's in doubt, it needs to be the focus.
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  25. Winoman

    Winoman Drinkin' Wine Spo-De-O-De!

    Jul 26, 2000
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is the result that should have happened in the first CAN-USA game.
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