Post-match: USA v Argentina, the post-match wrap, 6/8/08 {R}

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by babytiger2001, Jun 8, 2008.

  1. NGV

    NGV Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    In the Bundesliga, as of this past season. I'm not sure why that would count against him.
    He has plenty of caps for a 23 year old defender. Along with his outstanding performances in these last three games, I thought he looked very solid in his previous NT appearances, and I can't think of a recent outside defender for the US who has displayed a similar combination of tough defense and attacking skill.
     
  2. dsp87260

    dsp87260 New Member

    Mar 19, 2005
    Uh...Gold Cup is not our tourney, it's our region?

    ...therefore, IT IS OUR tourney!

    Gold Cup is the Championship of CONCACAF. We are in CONCACAF. So, it's our tourney.

    As far as the three trophies you mention being the only "major" ones, please....:rolleyes:

    They are the most prestigious/storied, but the valuation of trophies by FIFA goes like this...

    World Cup
    Confed Cup
    Euro Cup, Copa America, Gold Cup, African Cup of Nations, Asian Cup, OCEANA Cup (?)
    ...

    the individual Confederation championships are all equal to each other in terms of their "majorness" on the world stage (at the very least as far as FIFA and their ranking system is concerned)...it's fans who put different value to them based on history and prestige.

    And you're wrong, it advanced our team and our preparation for 2010 by getting us into the 2009 Confed Cup.

    As a fan, you can put whatever value you want to on these competitions, but I'll say again that you're being unrealistic as to the facts of the situation....

    and you want see us play against those major teams?...watch us in 2009 in the Confed Cup, which will be much more beneficial to our 2010 hopes and preparation.

    exactly
     
  3. sitruc

    sitruc Member+

    Jul 25, 2006
    Virginia
    I'm glad Waldo isn't on ESPN anymore. If he saw this comment, he would talk about it on-air and his ego would get even bigger. We would never hear the end of it.
    He may not have been complimentary of the US in the quote, but I didn't read it as classless. He made excuses, but they were pretty much valid. Some would make the case that players who were more skilled and had a better understanding of the team even with limited time were actually subbed on for the US which isn't normally the case for most teams. Most of the time when there are a lot of subs things become disjointed while the team loses cohesion and chemistry. Also regardless of where you are from or what you are used to, the conditions weren't easy. It was hot and humid. Should have and could have(but not would have) are a part of coach-speak. Coaches expect results from their players and they expect them to capitalize and make the best of opportunities. I read the quote as coach speak.
    I always thought sounding like a little girl on the Internet would get more people to pay attention.:eek: ... but, yeah. I agreed with the part of the post that I didn't quote.

    I'm glad I hit refresh instead of wasting my time responding to MJ-inBRITAIN. It got old a while ago rehashing why Gold Cup was important. Thankfully, dsp87260 and HouseHead78 did.
     
  4. Swami

    Swami Member

    Mar 5, 2005
    Maurice Edu is simply a better prospect than Michael Bradley. He has more upside and demonstrated the ability to make penetrating offensive passes into tight spots yet again. That is the kind of play from our CMs that we sorely need.

    While his mid-range passing has been good at times, Bradley has not shown that kind of offensive ability. On merit alone, Edu should get more PT than Bradley.
     
  5. Spumanti Jones

    Spumanti Jones New Member

    Jul 12, 2007
    Maurice is a special talent. He has an uncanny nerve on the ball in tight spaces born in part by clearing space around him using his body -- simple, but lacking in the technique of many USMNTers; often augmented by neat changes of direction with first touch or simply letting the ball run a bit & pivot faking off the dummy. Plus he looks like he simply DOES NOT ACCEPT LOSING as an option.
     
  6. JeremyEritrea

    JeremyEritrea Member+

    Jun 29, 2006
    Takoma Park, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    QFT.
     
  7. graywolfe81

    graywolfe81 Member

    Jul 2, 2002
    North Lake Tahoe, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I feel the same way, in a sense, although I'm definitely a glass is half empty fan when it comes to the Bradley regime. i get why some of the more positive posters are annoyed with some of the more negative posters, if this is what we can expect from a certain contingent.

    I came away impressed with Tim, to some degree w/the rest of the team, but again rather unimpressed w/our out of ideas approach once we get anywhere near the opponents goal. It was certainly a better performance in many ways, particularly in comparison to the miserable performance our complete A side had against an Argentine B/C team back in February 2003. This was night and day w/that. We actually appeared to have some ideas, and we weren't completely shell shocked all game.

    I still worry a great deal about a ton of things, I'm not happy w/how Bradley is used, for the love of God, move him up, and make simply use Edu or Mastro as the holding mid/destroyer option allready. I'm not happy with Gooch's inconsistency, I'm not happy w/the fact that our attack is clueless in the final third by and large (although at least we generated a few looks yesterday), but all in all there were some positives. It seems like Pearce and the kid are our left backs, Dolo makes sense as right back, I'd love to know what we're going to do with Spector, Edu solidified himself above Clark, something I expected, he's still raw, he still is inconsistent w/decision making, but he's got loads of potential and is already quite good. The team is obviously night and day better w/Adu or Donovan, or both in the game. When both aren't in the game we'll get beat, and by ANYONE. That much seems obvious at this point.

    Eddie didn't score and like one fish wrap writer mentioned, he seems nervous when he's in position to score, quite reasonably in a "please god, dont let me f this up too!" mode. Which may also explain his desire to play the ball back so often, although I think that has as much to do w/trying to find someone w/a better shot at scoring, as it does w/his confidence, and his understanding of his own limitations. That being said, he didn't look clueless, and his decision to quickly slice the ball back into the box on his breakaway was the right one in my view, the goalie was going to stuff him there, and he saw an Adu that wasn't obviously in the picture in all but one replay. He is playing a bit better. But right now he's not the answer. He's not getting it done.

    If it were my choice, right now I'd play Donovan and Altidore up top (i know Altidore may be limited, praying he can play in the olympics), I'd have Adu as A-mid, Dempsey or Bradley on the right wing, Beasley on the left, and Edu as holding mid. That's my midfield and forwards, I think that collection of talent could generate scoring chances and actually finish. It won't happen, but right now those are probably the best six guys for forward and midfield, mixing some size and toughness (Altidore, Bradley or Dempsey, Edu), and some speed and playmaking skill (Adu, Donovan, Dempsey and Beasley).

    This game hasn't changed my view of Bradley, I still think he's badly in need of replacement and completely over his head, just as the Ecuador win, and the Mexico wins in February and June of '07 didn't change my mind, this draw didn't either (particularly considering that we would have lost by multiple goals w/virtually any other US keeper back there). I think he's incapable of getting it done when it matters, and in friendlies as well. I hope he proves me wrong, because I don't see him getting canned, but again in my view, his formation decisions, tactics, mediocre resume, generally awful subbing, and often poor choices of starting lineups underlines that he's in over his head. Nothing I can do about it besides pray that he learns, and that the team plays wonderfully for him and inspite of him, or that he suddenly transforms into a great coach (obviously highly unlikely).
     
  8. Carcacha

    Carcacha Member+

    Apr 12, 2007
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Argentina's game intensity dropped after the first half. messi was taken out and it was clear that the argies werent going at full speed. frustration set in when they were expecting to jus be handed goals. howard is one hell of a goalie.

    bradley should stop playing his son...he's not ready for big games.

    Adu is jus beggin to be played more...and rightfully so, the kid has potential
     
  9. Swami

    Swami Member

    Mar 5, 2005
    This is not accurate. People hate the executive branch of our current government and their philosophy. That's no different from 50% plus of our own country.

    Other than that, we get the jibes and pot shots that any big dog should expect, but for the most part, there is genuine friendliness among peoples.
     
  10. graywolfe81

    graywolfe81 Member

    Jul 2, 2002
    North Lake Tahoe, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From what I remember, I think we drew them on the road, and then at home were tied around half time, and then the bloodletting began. I recall a 5 or 6-0 win, but it was so long ago I can't remember w/certainty (i think it was around November of 2000).

    I don't get all the people talking about shellacking Barbados. It's certainly possible, and with options in the midfield and at forward that could include (in a best case scenario) Eddie Johnson, Landon Donovan, Jozy Altidore, Freddy Adu, Clint Dempsey, DeMarcus Beasley, and hell maybe Michael Bradley for starters, and compare that to the guys we had in early '00 qualifying, other than McBride, and really it seems like we should shred them. But let's remember that this US team didn't score a single goal in this 3 round faux group play set of friendlies, and that we haven't scored in the run of play with consistency since freaking mid 2005 or thereabouts.

    Now I'll grant that maybe we'll look like dynamo's next week, but it's just as likely our stunted, stumbling, clueless attack will just get by, inspite of Bradley's inept tactics to 1-0 and 2-0 wins or something of that sort? A blow out is certainly possible, but nothing we've done lately suggests its going to happen other than the talent disparity.
     
  11. Swami

    Swami Member

    Mar 5, 2005
    Huh? Is there any part of this that makes any sense?
     
  12. JeremyEritrea

    JeremyEritrea Member+

    Jun 29, 2006
    Takoma Park, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Scroll back to post 153.

    We beat the 7-0 at home in August, and 4-0 on the road in November.

    The idea of a mutli-goal destruction of Barbados is not all that far-fetched, and IMO is the only acceptable outcome.

    We should be them by at least 4 goals.
     
  13. dsp87260

    dsp87260 New Member

    Mar 19, 2005
    This was already answered earlier in the thread ;)

    we beat them 7-0 here in the US and beat them 4-0 in Barbados
     
  14. dsp87260

    dsp87260 New Member

    Mar 19, 2005
    it makes sense to me...

    (pm me if you want me to explain it to you ;) )
     
  15. Swami

    Swami Member

    Mar 5, 2005
    What are you talking about? You are using one example to justify the statement that there is a "ton" of America bashing?

    The US is viewed as more of a threat because we are the sole superpower, which has just engaged in an offensive war based on the notion of pre-emption and has unsurpassed military strength. What kind of military capability do Iran and Syria have?
     
  16. Swami

    Swami Member

    Mar 5, 2005
    You generally seem to have a problem with constructive criticism. Would you like a skirt and some pom-poms?
     
  17. JeremyEritrea

    JeremyEritrea Member+

    Jun 29, 2006
    Takoma Park, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here's a thought - how about taking all the political shit to the politics forum?
     
  18. oldguyfc

    oldguyfc New Member

    Sep 26, 2006
    Chicago
    Jeremy, can we still use them anecdotally?:)
     
  19. dsp87260

    dsp87260 New Member

    Mar 19, 2005
    If I can be forgiven for speaking for others besides myself, I would say that us "cheerleaders" don't have a problem with constructive criticism per se.....just that too much of the so-called "constructive criticism" isn't really constructive at all and is purely spiteful and knee-jerk in nature.
     
  20. bungadiri

    bungadiri Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 25, 2002
    Acnestia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Seconded.
     
  21. MtMike

    MtMike Member+

    Nov 18, 1999
    the 417
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I apologize for being one of the starters of the political stuff. I responded to someone who said that we are hated all over the world. I didn't think that was appropriate for this forum (or really, ever.) My mistake was responding to the point instead of doing what some of you have done, telling him to take it to the politics forum. I apologize to anyone who was offended
     
  22. sitruc

    sitruc Member+

    Jul 25, 2006
    Virginia
    If I can be forgiven for watching any amount of American Gladiators tonight, I would say that a former "cheerleader" beat a former CSU football player... I don't have a problem with worthless soccer discussion, but this is not the politics board(unless we're talking about player selection;)). This is the place for overreaching statements relating to soccer and not political or idealogical viewpoints that are not in-line with your own.

    //I really should hit refresh more often.
     
  23. Swami

    Swami Member

    Mar 5, 2005
    Yeah, I was at the game, and it was right in front of me. That was the problem. I'm surprised it hadn't been mentioned earlier.

    It appeared that we were playing an assymetric 4-4-2 initially either by design or accident with Dempsey pinched in centrally to fill in the space left by the empty bucket. The problem was that he couldn't or wasn't supposed to cover the wing into the defensive third. If it was by design, the DMs were not sliding quickly enough to provide support. Unsurprisingly, it was particularly a problem against Argentina's 3-4-3 formation, which could load the wing.

    That's why Argentina had all those opportunities at the beginning of the game. Either Dempsey started to do his job properly, or the original tactics were changed.
     
  24. sitruc

    sitruc Member+

    Jul 25, 2006
    Virginia
    In my earlier response regarding this post, I left out that I thought Bradley's quotes regarding Adu were more troubling than the words from Argentina's coach.
    //not quite as OT as my last post
     
  25. Swami

    Swami Member

    Mar 5, 2005
    Yeah, it was special...everyone collectively took it up a notch, and you could sense something special in the air...not very many people left their seats for cover...new york has great soccer fans...we just haven't had too much to get excited about.
     

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