USA Roster for 2011 CONCACAF Gold Cup

Mike and Jones played together 4 times, that's the only way you can compare their performances. Poland (4-4-2, Jones clearly much better), Colombia (4-3-3, both mediocre), Argentina 1st half (4-3-3, both mediocre), Paraguay 2nd half (4-4-2, both excellent).

So Mike was clearly not better than Jones for the US national team when they play together. Not to mention when they are playing in the same leagues (Bundesliga, EPL) Jones is undisputedly the better player.

 

I'm not going to wade into this back and forth you're having with GVPATS, but there are a ton of assumptions in what you are saying about Jones vs Mike, especially in their league comparison.

 

Why don't you put up an argument then, let see if your assumption or my assumption is closer to the truth.

 

Because you said Jones was indisputably better. So if he can't dispute, there is nothing left to do.

 

Like I said, I don't care to get into who's better between MB and Jones, but you say Jones has outperformed Bradley in both Germany and England seemingly ignoring the differences in quality surrounding the two differences in managing and managing quality. There are plenty of contributing factors to performance outside of "my guy is better than your guy" so to speak.

 

You sound like Palin telling everyone that Paul Revere's ride was technically warning the British too. I have eyes and I know soccer too, and I thought Bradley was markedly better against Colombia, Argentina, and Paraguay.

Next up for the discussion - who the F cares? It's all about posters agendas rather than the team or anything else, everyone has made that obvious. You have your opinion (speaking broadly now, not just at you, Nam), and miraculously you keep interpreting the events on the field in support of the same. No events on the field could change your mind. So this has gotten rather insane.

They're obviously two CM's we need to perform well in differing roles, so stop pitting them against each other and grow up.

 

Any one else here agree with HouseHead that Mike was markedly better than Jones in these 3 games when they were on the field together? This is the reason why I defended Jones in the first place.

Really? So now I am the one that's putting down one midfielder to prop up another?

Why don't you go back to the start of the argument to see that GVPATS77 was the one that said that Mike was clearly the much better midfielder than Jones. All I did was I laid out a reasonable argument that it wasn't the case. I defended Jones and because of that I now have an agenda and is putting down Mike? There are Mike's hater out there but I was never one of them, I don't hate any USMNT players.

Maybe you should look in the mirror before calling someone "clueless" Palin.

 

I didn't ignore anything. You can ask any reasonable person and they would tell you that Jones have out performed Mike in the Bundesliga and EPL.

Don't tell me you think otherwise.

 

Let's drop the combative posts and name calling and engage in constructive discourse, please.

 

Well, Jones had a much stronger 2008-09 Bundesliga season than MB. But then he missed the 2009-10 season with the leg injury, so there is not comparison that year. Then in the 2010-11 season he was pretty poor for Schalke and got benched in October. Meanwhile, MB scored 3 goals and had 3 assists for Gladbach in League play (and another goal in cup play) and was rated by Kicker as Gladbach's 2nd best player of the 1st half, while Torfabrik praised him many times and called him a Derbykampfschwein, or a Derby-battle-boar.

Jones did have a good spring with Blackburn, but that was a team desperate for a real DM, since all they had for that job were young pro newbies age 19 and 21. MB had a difficult spring, unable to beat out the French manager's hand-picked French DM aquisition (Makoun) or the team Captain (Petrov) or the team Vice-Captain (Reo-Coker). So, Jones' last 4 club months were better than Bradley's.

As for US games: Jones was better in the Poland game. Both Jones and Bradley were pedestrian vs Columbia. Bradley was better vs Argentina thanks to a solid 2nd half. Bradley was strong all game vs Paraguay, while Jones was good in the 2nd half that game. Bradley was far better than a disinterested Jones vs Spain.

Bradley was the incumbant CM from the last cycle based on merit. So far this cycle he hasn't lost his starting spot based on Nat's performances. Nobody has out-performed MB, which is how you lose your job.

However, Jones has made a case for being MB's partner at CM, out-playing Edu who has had several US stinkers. It really isn't about MB vs Jones at this point, but about Jones vs Edu, and I rate Jones slightly better.

And obviously, Holden's injury is a big blow, but not much anyone can do about that for months to come.

 

Jones was a starter for Schalke for many seasons, a much better team than Mike's Mönchengladbach. He was rated by the Germans as one of the best DM in the league while Mike was always an average Bundesliga player. Overall, Jones had a better Bundesliga career than Mike, is there even a doubt in that?

Jones was called the best DM they had in a while by many Blackburn supporters. So in conclusion, no matter what the excuses are, Jones played very well in the EPL while Mike didn't play much.

There is nothing wrong with my statement that Jones had a better Bundesliga and EPL career than Mike.

Jones has played a total of 3.5 games for the US. You can only compare performances when both are on the field together, anything else is disingenuous. And do you agree with my statement that so far they are having similar performances when they are on the field together or do you agree with a couple of other posters who said that Mike was markedly better than Jones?

Did I say anything about benching Mike? Why is it that every time someone say something about Mike there has to be an agenda behind it? My preferred partner in midfield was always Jones and Mike, until Holden comes back. My problem with some of the posters in this forum is that they talked as if Mike performed much better than Jones, which I have problem with and why I defended Jones in the first place.

 

Understood. The thing is, for the time being, I'm starting to think that Mike is a better USMNT center midfielder than Jones is. (Not necessarily a better player per se, but a better CM in Bob's system.) Jones still does not seem all that comfortable with his role on this team, playing roughly level with another guy, and sharing the defensive and attacking and linking duties roughly equally.

Whether or not that's the system we should be playing or not is totally up for debate, IMO, but that's another debate entirely.

Given time, he might acclimate himself to it. And in fits and spurts he and Mike have looked pretty good together. In the 2nd half of the Paraguay match they made a good duo.

If by the time Holden comes back Jones has gotten a grip on his USMNT role, I assume there will be a real battle royal for the starting spots in CM on this squad, between three of its best players overall (apart from Donovan, Dempsey, and Howard), plus a pretty capable darkhorse (Edu).

 

I've never thought about comparing the two or their professional accomplishments.

But if you insist that I compare them, then Mikey was a far better Eridivisie player than Jones.

 

Jones may well have played well in the EPL but as soon as Bradley came in the improvement was very noticeable.
As for using a bunch of info from his past season in the EPL, why?
How about you just go on how he's played in a U.S shirt instead of pleasuring yourself to Jones clips from Blackburn games.

 

NamDynamo - I apologize for the tone of my post - was getting frustrated and took it out on your post. I did mention that I was speaking broadly, not just at you - I just picked your post as an example. As I read my post now, I realize I was over the line and rude, so again, I apologize.

Do I get a pass because I was on my second big tumbler of Crown Royal?

But I do stand by my two points that (a) Bradley was markedly better (again, by my eyes) in the games I mentioned, and that posters are simply aligning their interpretations of events on the field to fit their personal narratives so the discussion is pointless anyway.

Damn, we need tonight's game to come so we can have new stuff to argue about!

 

Yeah, I'd agree with that statement.
Jones needs to step it up, no question about it.

 

Originally Posted by Namdynamo
"You can only compare performances when both are on the field together, anything else is disingenuous."

Well there goes every comparison of every player ever in every sport....

 

Read my post again. I wasn't attacking anyone. You initiated a comparison of Jones and Bradley in a prior post, and I was spelling out how I would compare Jones and Bradley. I compared the years in which both played in the Bundesliga and their USA matches. In some cases I said Jones was better and in some I said Bradley was better.

 

That's about how I rate it.

I still think Jones could be a real force for us (for as long as his legs hold up) once he figures out his role with this team. Or Bob finds an acceptable way to tweak his set-up to take advantage of the way Jones wants to play...

 

Too bad Bradley only brought three players (Jones, Bradley and Edu) to the Gold Cup. That roster looks a little thin . . .

 

probably only 2 of them will play at the same time. we are a lot thinner at the outside mids. who is after LD & Demps?... quality really goes down hills. let's hope for a non injury tournament.

 

Knowing Bradley and Jones, after cards and accumulation at some point in the tournament we'll be down to just Edu. Maybe even after the first 15 minutes.

 

Hey, no problem my friend. We are all US supporters first and foremost. We all want the best for the USMNT!!!

 

I actually watched a bunch of Blackburn games this past season, don't be an ass.

Jones has played a total of 3.5 games for the US, 1.5 of those games were in a stupid 4-3-3 formation and .5 of another game was with a B team against Spain's A team. The other 1.5 games he played with the A team in a 4-4-2 formation and he was class. Why don't you guys let him play more games before making such strong opinion about his performance in the shirt? Form is temporary, class is permanent. Jones is a class player, that's how he is able to do so well for many years in the Bundesliga and now the EPL. He just need some time to integrate in to the USMNT.

Anyone here remember how many in BS wanted to bench both Dempsey and Donovan after some bad games before?