US v Mexico Rivalry from MLS 2013/14 CCL Quarterfinal Thread

Discussion in 'Gold Cup' started by tab5g, Feb 6, 2014.

  1. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Country:
    United States
    Fine, then I'm making the claim that the U.S. is clearly better than Mexico because at the 2010 WC it took extra time in the Round of 16 to eliminate them while Mexico lost by 2 in regulation. Plus Mexico only finished 2nd in their group while the U.S. finished 1st.

    What, if you're going to use a tournament where the team will probably not play a common opponent to decide who's better then why can't we use the already played 2010 tournament instead of the yet to be played 2014 one?
     
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  2. It's called FOOTBALL

    It's called FOOTBALL BigSoccer Yellow Card

    May 4, 2009
    Because the 2011 Gold Cup was the new measuring stick after the 2010 WC. Your argument has actually been used by posters here.

    I didn't buy that argument when it was made since both teams ended up being R16 losers. So they were equal.
     
  3. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Country:
    United States
    And both teams have won a Gold Cup since then, so they are (at least) equal. But only one of them had to go through a playoff to qualify for Brazil...

    Somehow in your mind no other tournament matters except the 2011 Gold Cup. Of course, since that's the only tournament in the last 5 years that Mexico has outplayed the U.S. in, that might have something to do with it...

    (U.S. finished ahead of Mexico in 2010 and 2014 WCQs, the 2013 Gold Cup, and arguably the 2010 WC, based on your logic. You'd have to go back to the "meaningless" 2009 Gold Cup to find the last time other than 2011 Mexico beat the U.S. Too bad the "meaningful" Gold Cup in 2007 was won by the U.S.)
     
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  4. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Country:
    United States
    Someone should have told Zusi that regional dominance was still on the line...even though we had already won the Hex before the opening whistle in Panama. :D
     
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  5. EvilTree

    EvilTree Member+

    Canadian S.C
    Canada
    Nov 20, 2007
    Frozen Swampland, Soviet Canuckistan
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Country:
    Canada
    I deeply regret Zusi doing what he did. Shutting mexicans up for at least a few months about how they are better than the Yanks might have been worth it.
     
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  6. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Country:
    Bolivia
    [​IMG]
     
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  7. It's called FOOTBALL

    It's called FOOTBALL BigSoccer Yellow Card

    May 4, 2009
    Equal is fine, and that goes for the 4 CONCACAF qualified teams. They all accomplished the same thing in 2013, a WC berth. None of the berths is more valuable than the other.

    No one said only the 2011 GC matters, don't be silly. I already said why the 2013 GC didn't trump the 2011 edition. Because it was for 1/2 of a CC berth, not a full one.

    Finishing ahead in the hex, when both teams qualify, is meaningless. There's a poster in the CONCACAF forum here who keeps bringing up "winning the hex", and he keeps getting laughed out of the thread. Winning the hex means less than winning the Supporters Shield, because at least when you win the SS, you get home field advantage throughout the playoffs. "Winning the hex" gets you nothing more than the other 3 berths. At all.
     
  8. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Country:
    United States
    Excuse me? Finishing top 3 in the hex gets you a full WC spot, while finishing 4th gets you half a spot. You know, the same logic you used to discount the 2013 Gold Cup. By your own logic Mexico is worse than the U.S., Costa Rica, and Honduras. QED
     
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  9. Last Line of Defense

    Jul 2, 2013
    Minnesota
    Club:
    Minnesota United FC
    Country:
    United States
    This is true, but the U.S. was the better team. How anyone can say Mexico is better than the U.S. right now is laughable. We finished at the top, and we had to save the Concacaf "giants," so they could ride our coattail into the World Cup. Sometimes I wish Zusi would have missed on purpose, but there is no class in that.
     
  10. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Just stop replying. The U.S. might be the better team today, but the Mexican fans are definitely better trollers.
     
  11. BLRNerd

    BLRNerd Member

    Jan 5, 2014
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Why are we talking about national teams in a Champs League thread?
     
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  12. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    United States
    Maybe because the Champions League resumes on March 10.
     
  13. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Country:
    United States
    Yeah, but I need some place to take my aggression out and at the moment there are no stupid threads in You Be The Don to use.
     
  14. sitruc

    sitruc Member+

    Jul 25, 2006
    Virginia
    They're all on the General board right now.
     
  15. Totoro

    Totoro Member+

    Dec 3, 2009
    Colorado
    I can think of 8 straight reasons why people would rather talk about the national teams in this thread on the MLS forum.
     
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  16. PTFC in KCMO

    PTFC in KCMO Member+

    Aug 12, 2012
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    I can think of 2 reasons the USA is better than mexico, but 0 reasons mexico is better than the USA;)
     
  17. EvilTree

    EvilTree Member+

    Canadian S.C
    Canada
    Nov 20, 2007
    Frozen Swampland, Soviet Canuckistan
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Country:
    Canada
    dos a zero! dos a zero!
     
  18. It's called FOOTBALL

    It's called FOOTBALL BigSoccer Yellow Card

    May 4, 2009
    Mexico had a 1/2 spot for only a month, and now it's a full spot. Maybe that news didn't get to you. So it's not the same as the 2013 GC example.

    It's simply not conclusive enough that 1 C'CAF team is superior to the other 3, because the 4 all earned the same thing. The final weed out process is 4 months away.
     
  19. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Country:
    United States
    Hey look, those goalposts are moving again. Keep spinning, I guess you have to do something to avoid facing the reality of the disaster that was the Mexican qualifying campaign.
     
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  20. EvilTree

    EvilTree Member+

    Canadian S.C
    Canada
    Nov 20, 2007
    Frozen Swampland, Soviet Canuckistan
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Country:
    Canada
    So what you are really saying is USA is equal to Mexico...
     
  21. drgonzo

    drgonzo Member+

    Jun 1, 2011
    Club:
    San Diego Flash
    Country:
    United States
    I think he's referring to the one where they didn't get humiliated.
     
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  22. trip76

    trip76 Member

    Jul 17, 2007
    North East USA
    your ignoring the fact that all 4 team in concacaf played each other, home and away, and were ranked by the results, which is the gold standard of comparison. mexico in its most recent attempts has shown itself to be of substantially lower quality then the US right now.
     
  23. It's called FOOTBALL

    It's called FOOTBALL BigSoccer Yellow Card

    May 4, 2009
    #48 It's called FOOTBALL, Feb 18, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2014
    You're ignoring the fact that the goal is to qualify, not necessarily to have the most WCQ points overall. That's why you gotta take point total among the qualified teams, with a grain of salt. It's happened before where the "hex winner" turned out to not be the best team. Like 2002 for example.

    That's why it's inconclusive. If only the top points-getter qualified, then they are the undisputed best. But we don't know who would have been #1 if that were the case. Different rules can produce different results.
     
  24. Namrog The Just

    L.A. Galaxy
    United States
    Jul 2, 2007
    Los Angeles, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Country:
    United States
    This just keeps get better and better.
     
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  25. blacksun

    blacksun Member+

    Mar 30, 2006
    Seoul, Korea
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Country:
    United States
    You make a reasonable point (for a change) that the hex winner may not be the best team if they qualified early and lost some games at the end playing less than full strength lineups. Of course that logic still has the US as the better team since they qualified with 2 hex games to spare and Mexico qualified with -2 hex games to spare.
     
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