US U-23 camp in Spain. November 2019

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by bshredder, Nov 6, 2019.

  1. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Chris Cappis is one I think might get a USMNT opportunity sooner rather than later.

    And I don't think he's going to be at Hobro much longer..........................
     
  2. Jlpurelove

    Jlpurelove Member

    Jun 3, 2016
    charlotte nc
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Peru
    You are wrong. If Glad had read the situation accordingly, the moment number 5 passes the ball to Cunho (number 9 who scores the goal), Glad had the opportunity to immediately press hard on Cunho and not let him control de ball so EASILY (with his back to our goalie) and prevent any pass attempt to the other two brazilians that you are mentioning. This is called IQ in soccer and he does not have it. As a result of this, Cunho scored easily.
     
  3. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    Nope, 2 guys are open and Cunho doesn't need any time to pass them the ball unless Glad takes him down before the first touch. What Glad can't anticipate is that Freese will be using "flop on your stomach and crawl" technique which should have been coached out of him at age of 9.
     
  4. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It will almost never be the case that all players performed well or poorly. A team functions that way because of weak or strong links, or the strategy of the manager.

    Ledezma played pretty well. Pestered but couldn't win the ball by himself much and go though. And due to poor build-up but insistence upon it, when he picked it up it was deeper, which just resulted in an outlet, which the guy would screw up.

    He needed a complement like Aaronson to help collectively trap, win the ball himself, serve forward, and go. When Aaronson came in, that was the fuse piece. It worked sufficiently at that second level, and he could dribble a little to service the wingers.

    A winger like Saucedo gave additional build-up help as a winger. Necessary because of the style we were playing and having trouble gaining possession high, but had drawback of leaving Toye isolated. Made his day tough, as often seems to be the case for cf's in this system. Then we wonder why they were invisible.

    Lewis stayed higher as a wide fw basically. But got terrible service. So hard to say he played poorly. Lewis isn't very tactically flexible. Guess one could make that critique. Doesn't mean he's still not of use.

    The style and cb's made Dotson's job really tough too. Plopped him in the middle just outside his box with no teammates near him. Cb's wouldn't take impetus to dribble into space in front and draw to create space. Allowed Brasil to press high, then said you figure it out. Plus didn't have options. See this happening often at senior level.

    When Cappis came in at least he had Aaronson's support. Don't think he could have made some of Dotson's recoveries or retained possession w/ no options off that hospital ball which led to the goal.

    Clear weak links were McKenzie, Glad, Vines, Mihailovic, the system, and complements. Everybody else there wasn't enough info for and a few even managed to overcome, i.e. Aaronson, Saucedo, Cappis, and Ledezma too. So stock up imo.

    Wish we had another real game to evaluate. Big loss and not maximized opportunity.
     
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  5. Jlpurelove

    Jlpurelove Member

    Jun 3, 2016
    charlotte nc
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Peru
    Exactly!! Glad has to anticipate the pass and Cunho's first touch. He needed to prevent an easy control by Cunho and position his body so that Cunho has a hard time trying to pass the ball to the other two brazilians. But he chose to back away and we already know what happened next. So, based on the outcome, Did Glad make a good decision?
     
  6. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    The choice was between backing up and fouling immidiately. If you know that your keeper won't be able to deal with a shot you should foul, but how the hell do you know that? Anyway that's not the worst Glad's game in that game.
     
  7. hellraiser-82

    hellraiser-82 Member

    May 17, 2004
    buffalo ny
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can't believe Antonee Robinson and Cameron Carter-Vickers did not play in this game against Brazil why call them in to the team if your not going to play them this shit is stupid Kreis bias.
     
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  8. Jlpurelove

    Jlpurelove Member

    Jun 3, 2016
    charlotte nc
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Peru
    #208 Jlpurelove, Nov 15, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
    He did not even need to foul. All he had to do is press hard and not allow Cunho to control the ball so easily. This would have bought some time for our defense to get back in position. Either way, as a defender, you do not back away from a player that is in a perfect position to blast the ball. You have to prevent this regardless if other players are wide open.
     
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  9. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    This doesn’t make any sense. Glad is one of the best players in his age group. He shows it week after week with his club team. This is a meaningless game for a team that is poorly coached and selected. Why make judgments based on a game by this team against a clearly superior team than what they do with their club teams?
     
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  10. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    What’s his bias?
     
  11. ielag

    ielag Member+

    Jul 20, 2010
    Glad plateaued a bit in 2018 but was very good this season. RSL’s GD with and w/o Glad this season was enormously in favor of when he was playing.
     
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  12. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I agree. I think we put too much stock into these U-23 games. Brazil is clearly superior to begin with and this team is completely makeshift. They’ve had very few camps, the head coach is not even full time and most of the best players in this age group aren’t even on this team. Why does everyone care so much? Is anyone surprised when these players who we all know are very average (for the most part) lose to Brazil?
     
  13. Eighteen Alpha

    Eighteen Alpha Member+

    Aug 17, 2016
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    How does the second statement prove the first? Serious question, not trolling.
     
  14. autobus39

    autobus39 Member+

    Jun 28, 2006
    Scranton, PA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  15. Thundering165

    Thundering165 Member+

    North Carolina FC
    United States
    May 1, 2017
    Raleigh
    Additional thoughts on rewatching:

    1.) The 4-2-4 system the USA uses to press has a real vulnerability between the winger and the fullback. Here's an example: https://streamable.com/igmcw

    If the FB isn't aggressive, he's given up space in a soft part of the field and there are at minimum 4 defenders past the ball. If he is aggressive, the CB has to make an outside run to cover the overlapping fullback.


    2.) Ledezma is not a good fit for that leading midfielder role here. Look at when they get the ball in transition here: https://streamable.com/zm92l

    We've seen than same opportunity for him at PSV but usually he's a little deeper lying with options on the left, right, and middle. Here he's got no one and by the time the pass is necessary he has to force it. I'd rather have him a little further back and have a larger player more adept at holding up the play at the "10".

    3.) Dotson was bad. There's no way around it. He was physically dominated in multiple ways and though you can't put the goal 100% on him he really misplayed the ball.. Mihailovic was bad passing. Missed a bunch of easy ones.


    4.) Back line lacks good technique. Too many awful, errant passes in all direction. When the ball is played to CBS or CDMs the placement has to be on point because when they have to chase it bad things happen.


    All in all I feel ok about Olympic qualifying, though I doubt that a few of the guys we saw will be on the qualifying roster. The roster needs upgrades pretty much everywhere.
     
  16. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    By comparing the players in the '97 age group. Glad is a well-above average starting CB in MLS. There aren't more than a few (if even that) 97's who are doing better at club level. This team should be picked on current ability, not potential. I get Glad isn't in good with the hipster crowd because he's not in a youth team at the academy of a big club, but are we trying to win or not? If you are trying to win games and you are going to complain about Glad, you should end up with less than 10 players to not complain about. He's far from a problem with this U-23 team.
     
  17. run_it_out

    run_it_out Member+

    Earthquakes
    United States
    Jun 19, 2018
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  18. hellraiser-82

    hellraiser-82 Member

    May 17, 2004
    buffalo ny
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Favoring MLS/NORTH AMERICAN players.
     
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  19. Eighteen Alpha

    Eighteen Alpha Member+

    Aug 17, 2016
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    Thank you.

    But that isn’t precisely what I was asking. Take Glad out of the equation and just say “ X is one of the best players in his age group (globally). He shows it week after week with his team (all leagues and levels).” Then the statement kind of falls apart.

    Why couldn’t you say for example: “Richards is one of the best players in his age group because he attracted the attention of a top 10 team in the world and was a best XI in a tournament that included all the best players (globally) in his age group?”

    Potential cannot be totally divorced from ability. The best teams in the world are not pulling out their checkbooks for the top performers in AYSO or NCAA. Every team in every league and level has a best player. That says absolutely nothing about their ability relative to their age cohort globally but does lead to the kind of mindset that makes Zardes a national team regular.

    Again, I am not trying to troll. I have just been thinking a lot about this recently.
     
  20. Eighteen Alpha

    Eighteen Alpha Member+

    Aug 17, 2016
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    #220 Eighteen Alpha, Nov 16, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2019
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  21. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Then why are European-based youth players like Richards, Mendez, Ledezma on the team? Do you think the whole team should be your favorite pet projects who play youth games over first team professionals?
     
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  22. hellraiser-82

    hellraiser-82 Member

    May 17, 2004
    buffalo ny
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Did you watch the brazil goal he backed of the brazilian player freeing him up for a wide open shot on goal.
     
  23. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    There should be some of both that is taken into consideration, but we have seen in the past that we run into problems in this age group when coaches pick their favorite pet projects instead of guys who perform at the club level. Part of it is that its statistically harder to project potential into production than a more-finished product into production and part of it is that it takes a very good eye for talent to accurately pick their favorite pet projects and accurately predict it correctly.

    Thats why in a team like this (U-23's), I'll go with the best club players. Glad is one of the most accomplished guys in the oldest year of the U-23 age group. Based on that, which I think is a pretty objective standard that I think most would agree with, I think he's far from a problem. Some disagree and want their favorite pet projects picked. I think the team would be more fun to watch if my favorite pet projects were on the team, but I also don't think I'm a good enough judge of talent that I can afford to disregard current week in, week out club production, if we want good U-23 results. I don't think any of us are, nor do I think a coach like Kreis is either. I think there are probably only a handful of coaches whose decision-making you'll buy into over club production.
     
  24. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I did watch, and I don't agree with your assessment. I also think you miss the larger point of how this team should be picked. I think you are advocating for player selection that we saw last cycle fails to qualify us for the Olympics.
     
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  25. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    Glad is one of the better CBs of that age group, but he had uncharacteristically mediocre first half. And I don't mean the goal, his passing game was suspect.
     

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