US-Curaçao, post game

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by superdave, Jun 30, 2019.

  1. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    Right he didn't need that second term, he managed to destroy the whole program in the first one.
     
  2. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ...and I stop reading.

    BECAUSE HE CAN’T BE IN TWO PLACES AT THE SAME TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
    Mr Martin and tomásbernal repped this.
  3. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    Or their rankings. They ranked 79th, Canada 78th, Panama 75th.
     
  4. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Notice I didn't say "for this tournament". For next call up, absolutely. Even for this tourney I'd prefer McKennie at the 6 and Roldan at the 8.
     
  5. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    This is very offensive to Ralston, who was an excellent MLS player and I believe still the third in assists. He was above Bedoya-Arriola level. I guess you never watched him. Trapp is in mediocre to slightly above average MLS range.
     
  6. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That actually helps his point, if you ask me. The "big" league that has the least foreign player restrictions is also the same league that is taking the most players from MLS, or MLS academies, by far. Maybe that means that MLS trained players are not automatically as monumentally far behind as people want to believe. And at the same time shows that the impediments to movement has a bit more to do with where one ends up than we care to admit.

    I have to agree with duke here. If I am told you can have a random BL player or a random MLS player to start your team, I would clearly say "gimme the BL player" because the odds are in my favor that I will randomly get a better player from the BL. But what I tend to see here is the notion that once we have identified the ACTUAL player (no longer a random draw), that by virtue of the league each is in, the answer is still nearly automatically the same … the BL player wins, due to that CV. That is the line I can't cross. Would I rather have a fit Morales over Bradley and Trapp? You damn right I would. But that's based on their play, and not simply on their league of choice. Because, for years, if you had given me a choice between Olvaldo Alonso and a Morales type, I would have taken Alonso (people can disagree). There simply has to be a bit more nuance to the broader argument.
     
    superdave, Mr Martin and tomásbernal repped this.
  7. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    you seem like maybe you need to talk to someone off the board for a while.

    daves results were garbage because they were all friendlies a lot of against teams that weren't fielding their best teams.

    you seem to get lost on the same topics that you dont understand and they are like ur go to for every conversation

    did you know the us tied france.....I mean clearly the us was a top two team in the world a year ago with julian green leading the offense not that loser pulisic. lol

    move on
     
  8. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If Berhalter brings him into camp and decides not to play him over Bradley or Trapp, then BS still won't have seen him play and everyone can continue complaining that he's better. It would be a win-loss for the Morales fans, but since it would be a complete loss for the "maybe Morales isn't really better and Berhalter is actually scouting him" types then it will really amount to a win-win for you.
     
  9. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One thing I remember about Bob Bradley's time as coach is that I always expected the second half to be better than the first. It always seemed like whatever his initial game plan was ended up not being great, but his halftime changes were usually spot on. We definitely didn't get that from Berhalter against Curacao, and I haven't really seen much of it in any other game yet. But, I'll still give him a little more time (6 months?) to instill his style in the pool and bring in some of the more promising young guys and work out kinks before I join the "Eff the Egg" crowd.
     
    Pegasus, superdave and DHC1 repped this.
  10. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I disagree completely on the last bit. I hated Klinsmann because, after years of giving him slack and being hopeful that whatever he was doing would work, he showed himself to be little more than an arrogant prick, bad man manager, and terrible tactician. The Donovan snub was the icing on top, but that decision never really factored much into my opinion of him.
     
    Craig P, Mr Martin and russ repped this.
  11. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There are a hell of a lot more professional soccer players in the world than baseball or basketball players.
     
  12. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    His tactical executions have not been at all around compensating for Bradley. I'm not saying Bradley is a strong defender or our best six, but his tactical adjustments haven't been about this.

    The vast majority of his tactical adjustments have offensive, not defensive in nature. And they've been around the fact that this team cannot advance the balance in any concerted manner without overloading the midfield.

    This is a post game thread and 90% of the posts around 23 man roster selections and players who are hurt. There's almost no real discussion of the match -- just reactions that bleed back to the argument you had before.

    Are any of you actually interested in anything except winning the ONE argument you've been having with the world for years?

    I'd love to actually talk this match. If I wanted to beat my head against the same damn argument over and over, I'd go to the Andrew Carleton thread.
     
    Mr Martin repped this.
  13. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Is this a joke? You wrote lol but I don't think you get the concept of a joke.

    It has some of the same principles, but the execution is significantly different. Berhalter had Higuan plus some of the best attacking fullbacks in MLS. He's rarely played at all like he did in Columbus.

    Also, why would a gk, a striker and a DM that doesn't play have any bearing on tactical cohesion?

    I did. Berhalter has been very good at making tactical adjustments so far in this Gold Cup (and before). I didn't see significant change in shape in this match despite the struggle -- I don't know if that was by choice or the players couldn't execute it.

    Plenty of times players can't execute a game plan. Frankly, given the number of easy giveaways, I could easily suggest poor performance.

    This isn't a hard concept.

    How many games has Adams even played? Answer me that one. Here, I'll give it to you. One match. Two days of practice. He looked pretty good. His heat map looked like a DM.

    But let's even say it's a disaster with Adams at DM. HE'S NEVER PLAYED AGAIN. How is Berhalter inflexible with he's seen him for 90 minutes with no practice and it looked pretty good? How can someone even change something when a person only plays once?

    Lima has played both as an aggressive attacker up the right wing. He's played the Adams role. This last game he stayed back and the winger stayed high. The LB has played a variety of roles as well.

    That's the definition of flexible. What else could the RB be doing? We could be sitting him back ... but then again, we haven't conceded yet, so why would we do that.

    You want to know what I think? I think there's so many complaints about player selection because almost no one here actually knows enough about other elements of the game to complain about it.
     
    Craig P, Mr Martin and tomásbernal repped this.
  14. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I don't really agree on the Pulisic position, but let's set that aside.

    I somewhat agree on the pool. But let me ask you -- if you had the team, you could pick your selection, your formation, your tactics.

    What do you do when you get the ball in your defensive third without an immediate counterattack?

    I'm curious, because what I saw during JK, Arena and Sarachan drives me to a lot of my support for Berhalter's tactical choices (and I don't agree with all elements of his player selection).
     
  15. y-lee-coyote

    y-lee-coyote Member+

    Dec 4, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I thought he was out coached in this game. The "semi" press thing was a waste and Curacao was willing to play for a close game and try and nick it late.

    Curacao really had the best of it to start the second half, and on some sultry night in Curacao they could manage a point or three in Curacao and knock us out of the world cup.
     
    TheHoustonHoyaFan repped this.
  16. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Agreed. I'm not a fan of the mismatched press. I would say our defense has looked pretty organized if not always individually brilliant.

    Where I remain somewhat confused is that I really didn't like the results of either using Zardes centrally or the fullbacks on the wings to help the ball forward. This was after routing to Boyd was a complete bust, so maybe he felt he was out of good options.
     
  17. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    I prefer roldan at the 8...for the sounders and he should stay there.
     
  18. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    imagine saying this about the national team right now

    why would a gk, a striker and a dm that doesn't play.....steffan...trapp..zardes...

    I mean its tough to not get it but to ask what a goalkeeper of a team who wants to play out of the back has to do with tactics is pretty funny.

    then to ask a dmid who has the second most caps under gb(you say he doesn't play lol) on a team whose first pass is to a cb and the second literally to the dmid...what does he have to do with the tactics I mean there is not getting it and then there is whatever you are trying to do.

    I have to be honest I didn't get past this line because if you can't get simple things right I know you aren't going to get the rest
     
  19. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    I admit I went back here is another crazy opinion

    the answer to this is simple...not if they are well coached this doesn't happen 'plenty of times'. GB knows most of these players and if he is puttin gthem on the field with a plan they can't handle then we know for sure he is in over his head because that means he doesn't have a clue.
     
  20. matabala

    matabala Member+

    Sep 25, 2002
    And you would be wrong. The starter on the bottom team in the "better" league may well be a lesser player than the starter on the best team in the "worse" league.
     
  21. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Your point was that Steffen & Co shouldn't have any issues with the tactical setup because they came with Berhalter.

    Has Steffen been an issue from tactical integration?

    More and more I realize you don't have anything to add. But keep running from any logical conversation!
     
    tomásbernal repped this.
  22. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    It hasn't happened plenty of times, though.
     
  23. NGV

    NGV Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    https://us.soccerway.com/players/darryl-lachman/102830/
    https://us.soccerway.com/players/cuco-martina/57652/

    Martina also had a bunch of Premier League starts a few years back.

    I'm not claiming that these guys are world-beaters by any stretch of the imagination (and the rest of the lineup is weaker), but that's actually a stronger resume than most of the defenders that we've been sending out recently. So there's no reason to expect (non-Pulisic) US attackers to automatically generate a ton of chances against them.

    The game was genuinely disappointing; on our home field, the USA's overall superior talent should have translated into more control of possession and a bigger advantage in the number of scoring opportunities. Still, a 1-0 victory isn't automatically a disastrous scoreline, as it would be against other small Caribbean countries.
     
    gnk and gogorath repped this.
  24. sXeWesley

    sXeWesley Member+

    Jun 18, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    3G’s analysis:

    https://www.espn.com/soccer/united-states/story/3891746/berhalter-us-needs-win-for-gold-cup-success

    "We allowed them too much space," said Berhalter about Curacao. "We allowed them to play balls into their striker too easily. That would have made things easier for us in the game.

    Berhalter also expressed concern about his team's offensive spacing during the match, calling it disconnected.

    "Michael [Bradley] would drop on the other side of the line and have only Weston
    [McKennie] central, or Michael would be central and we would have five guys high, and that's just not proper spacing," he said. "It becomes very difficult to get any kind of offensive flow when that's what you're shape looks like."

    So we have the exact same problems we had last cycle, before you arrived Gregg... problems so obvious Curaçao can exploit them? Sweet system bro.
     
  25. Silky_Johnson

    Silky_Johnson New Member

    LA galaxy
    United States
    Jun 23, 2019
    Mexico barely beat haiti......................................................................
     

Share This Page