Dude. We aren’t Germany. And it’s pretty well documented that MLS does a shit job of developing young talent. We don’t have the player who did nothing for his club but became a great international player because we never gave that opportunity to the young players. We have an entire generation that did absolutely nothing and countless young players rotting in the USL.
some of us were saying bring Sargent to Gold Cup. Suppose he had played in GC - in addition to u17 and u20 WC's. Now he's prepped for an appearance in Trinidad.
Leaving aside the fact a couple of good plays in a off year Gold Cup Group Stage is hardly a legendary international career...Rowe wasn't at Camp Cupcake in 2017. Somehow, he was discovered and brought to a tournament without ever having been assessed for untapped talent. Rowe actually proves my point.
If we had better talent from 22-28 then we wouldn't need to call in kids. We would have qualified and now be debating about who's on the roster in June. But we don't have that talent. We have a ton of scrubs who washed out, plenty who never even got to the point of washing out in MLS, and kids. So yes in this situation when absolutely nothing is on the line and the generation that should be leading us is abysmal call in the kids. Bringing 30 kids into a camp and finding out that 28 aren't ready is valuable. It highlights the two that are and allows you to point out to the others what they need to work on. It also allows USSF to move onto the next thirty kids. In addition every call up for guys like Parks, Hyndman, Sergeant, Torres etc means we can mix and match and figure out what are true depth chart is and what lineup suits our current group of talent. Not to mention if we're worried about our kids getting games against men, (we should be) then bringing in Durkin to test him against older players and putting him out there to hopefully shine just might encourage DC United to play him or allow him to force their hand and sell him. Every camp, every practice, every friendly is a chance to learn and grow for these kids and should be embraced by fans and the federation alike.
Ex mentioned Rowe. I'll add the likes of Cameron, Holden, and Besler. They were guys who languished in MLS for several years without getting a significant opportunity. Then they got shots in January Camp and ran with it. Sapong appears to be another one of these guys. He impressed in Portugal, although that was after a big year in MLS. And he looked good at a January Camp years earlier. Between he was just a guy in MLS. Germany is not an analog to the U.S. in this situation in many ways. Firstly, of course are a couple levels above in terms of talent production so their standard should naturally be much higher. Secondly, they don't have much of a schedule opening to have a similar huge, bonus camp like the U.S. has. You've already been edified in this thread that's because of weather differences. Thirdly, Germany houses has a big domestic league, and it's surrounded by others without very restrictive rules to them. The U.S.' domestic league is MLS. Not only are the top European leagues restrictive about incoming transfers from places like America, the U.S. themselves are restrictive of outgoing transfers. Then there are the dp/allocation rules being biased towards those with leverage from outside leagues leading to them being artificially suppressed since they make a lot more money and owners want R.O.I. So it's a battle for a domestic American to make their way their way to club prominence, one the vast majority of time those good enough need help from the national team manager to win. It's remarkable some people still think it's rational to see through a country with such different circumstances like Germany's lens, just because they are a traditional power, when we just saw a manager with the same mindset fall flat on his face as American manager. If you were longer-sighted you'd see the practice laid the foundation for missing the World Cup. And then the guy who replaced him didn't turn things around enough like 90+% of manager probably would have because he neglected sizable parts of the pool as well, just in a different way. Lesson learned - don't neglect any part of the pool out of irrational prejudice. Don't get stuck in a revolving door of dysfunction through a false dilemma like voting for republicans and democrats. Neither are the God damn solution!
And btw, a 30-man camp solely comprised of European-based players, only a few of whom could be vets - would have a lot of riffraff on it too. But so what, if we could still learn something from it. It just never makes sense in the schedule and MLS is much more amenable about releasing players outside international dates than European leagues.
FYI Iceland just played an international friendly on a non-FIFA date because many of their players are in their offseason, losers. I think very few people actually think that MLS is currently a top league but there are significant number of people who believe that a few players could play in better leagues. There are, of course, fools. MLS has a goal of being a top league and a vested interest in selling quality to the soccer market because that's what they want to buy. When that marketing strays too far from being aspirational it rings false. Bruce has always been very political in his press comments and unfortunately our soccer political climate is ********ed. Klinsmann saw his role as a truth teller who wanted to create conflict to bring about change. MLS saw that as ********ing with their money. Instead of positive change, the divides simmering underneath our soccer culture polarized (meaning they got less logical and cooperative and more tribal), our team fell apart, people started looking out for their own (tribal) interests more and here we are. Klinsmann could have done everything concrete he wanted to do (steer players to Europe) with no real reaction from MLS if he had taken a different public relations strategy. Oh, and being a good manager would have helped. "Cap him now" is a joke for a reason. The best way to evaluate a player is to see them in person, against their competition, over a decent amount of time. This is the opposite of looking at one moment against dodgy opposition and making a decision. The logic of not wanting to get stuck with bad players because of personal familiarity would lead one to only select players with extensively proven track records. It's interesting that you fear Camp Cupcake (scary name? Gluten allergy?) and point to the 2010 cycle as an example of a good roster. I think most would say that the manager of that cycle did a better job of using this camp for what it is (a chance to see a bunch of guys over a long period of time who, on average, did very well in the preceeding season in MLS or on a YNT) than his successor. Also consider that the best way to get offers from European clubs is to do well in an international competition and previous managers would game the old U.K. work permit rules to facilitate moves. Who the ******** gives a shit about a goddamn MLS club's press release or a tweet? What kind of shallow inferiority complex bullshit are we running on here? If I had a table to flip over that's what I'd do now. Pick the players that make the best team. That is all that matters. Right now, the best players available to look at are in leagues out of season. Pick the best among them that need to be evaluated and evaluate. Then rank them against the best players overall at each position and call-up accordingly.
I knew that would be the first response. I said the same thing when we hadn't missed the World Cup. Didn't think Green deserved call ups, didn't think Wood did when he was sent down to the reserves as punishment. IT sends a bad message, whether we are the best team in the world or the worst. You can call in the kids and not be calling in random highly-rated young players who've proven nothing against pros. There are kids who are pros and are playing well who should be called in. But there's no guarantee with Sargent, no guarantee with Carleton, no guarantee with Durkin. They probably all will be NT players within a year or two of getting regular pro minutes, but calling them in before they prove themselves is counter-productive for their careers and for the NT. We have plenty of players who deserve call ups, and there's only one match for this friendly. We don't even need 30 players. I would've called in no more than 23, probably only like 18. If that is the case, like it was with EPB, I actually have no problem calling that player in, as long as they have enough professional games and experience of being in a pro team for a while. I wanted EPB called up to the Gold Cup. He should've been playing every week in MLS, and was better than many his age who were playing every week. But none of these situations are yet like that. There's no reason to rush these guys into the NT.
I would love to have a 30 man, multi-week, evaluation camp for European based players. I like having a couple young promising guys in camps for our European friendlies and calling in rosters larger than who can just be capped. I hope Tillman and Sargent and Perez are on our next Euro friendly roster even if they don't make the gameday. I'll be pissed if Siebatcheau isn't called in and, if he accepts, plays.
Bosnia is bringing 28 players, only 3 of them have over 10 caps and 18 have never played for their NT. 20 of the 28 are local players from the Bosnian league. https://www.blic.rs/vesti/republika...neju-reprezentacije-prosinecki-pozvao/9t133p7
Problem is that our summers are very busy with official competitions. This one, you may have heard, we have a lot of free time. But I'd rather use that opening for a u-23 tourney with the other notable failures. That could include a number of those borderline European players. They'd be more apt to be young enough having operated outside the collegiate system. In a normal year, if they could find a gap where those players would be available, I suppose. But it would be more of a challenge than doing it for MLS/Nordic players.
These examples of players are getting worse! Again, Rowe wasn't at Camp Cupcake. He wasn't evaluated on a whim and found to be a hidden gem. He played well in MLS and got a call to a camp on a FIFA date. Cameron and Holden; that is a long time ago. Cameron was a Rookie of the Year finalist the season before he was called. Pretty obvious he stood out in MLS. Holden was a stand out on youth teams including the U20 and 2008 Olympic Team before being invited to Camp Cupcake. Neither was unknown or discovered at January camp. Besler?!? He was the MLS Defender of the Year in 2012 and got called into Camp Cupcake in 2013. I would think his club form got him the call. Please, every year call in any American Rookie of the Year finalists and Defender of the Year winners. But don't say they didn't stand out in MLS. There are no players playing badly in MLS that will get called in and discovered. Great players in MLS are the only ones that should ever get into a NT camp with the express purpose of show casing them to European teams. Sometimes, post-hype prospects that are between clubs are called in to help them move like Rubio Rubin and before guys like Kitchen, Wood, et al. That seems harmless. I'm astounded that people think there are guys doing nothing in MLS that could be international stars for the NT. Really ludicrous.
I don't really understand who you think it is that the USSF should be calling up to this January camp outside of the guys they are calling up. There's a USYNT summit right now with the U20/U19/U18/U17 teams that are going to form the core of our U23 team for 2020. And the U20 coaching staff wants to work with those players in preparation for the U20 CONCACAF Championships and U20 World Cup. [If we don't give the coaching staff the opportunity to work with those players, and we fail to qualify for the U20 or U17 World Cups..............people freak the eff out.] I know this is going to be a shock to people, but what the USSF is doing here is taking MLS' products (plus Scandinavia) and giving them a chance to show they deserve a USSF role going forward.. If ya think the materials the USSF has to work with aren't good enough...........................that's MLS' fault. If players FAIL to show they're good enough to move forward with, that's also a positive outcome. We've learned they're not good enough. That's the point of the camp. Its a tryout for future USMNT events/camps/etc. If only ONE player demonstrates the potential to move forward with, then its a been a useful exercise. Maybe that player will be Zack Steffen or Justen Glad or Christian Ramirez. I don't know. We'll find out.
I think they should call all the eligible players they can. If it isn't worth it to have Bradley, Besler, Altidore, etc. then it isn't worth it to have a camp. I want to see the real deserving, like Glad and Adams go up against the real team in training and play with what we have of the senior team in the friendly. Having them train with guys undeserving of the cap and play with them for a coach that is incompetent seems a waste of time. Ok. I think it would have been a good year to leave the senior team at home and have had a U23 camp. All the guys we really think have potential, Adams, Acosta, Glad are eligible for the 2020 Olympic team.
There's nothing wrong with taking unknown promising players to a national team camp where there's only 1 game. 2 weeks with the team gives a good starting relationship and eval. But you would only want to bring 5-7 for Jan camp. Of course this is only during non tournament or qualifying camps where the last 5 spots are meaningful.
I don't understand the patience that many show here for talented youth and trying something different when the present sucks so hard. This was the same argument for brining in Zusi, Beasley, Howard, etc when there was good alternatives available with legs and reflexes that were pining in MLS or playing some in Europe. If you've got a solid lineup of professionals in their mid to late 20's that have proven success in international play then the argument of patience is a good one. If not, it's a bad argument.
It's going to be a long year. January Camps have a different focus each year and the focus generally rotates each year. The first January Camp after a WC is generally focused on introducing new players into the pool and how US Soccer operates. The invites are geared more towards who has earned it. Also, the first JC after a WC also brings in players who are seen as vital to the next cycle but weren't major players in the previous cycle: Howard and Bocanegra in 2003, Rico Clark in 2007, Bedoya 2011, etc. Then you have January camps to round out Gold Cup rosters and WC rosters. These are used primarily to determine depth. In 2010, we only had 4 guys who were MLS players on the WC squad. Therefore, the 2010 JC was looking for three guys (the fourth was Donovan) who could round out that roster. We had Feilhaber (a rare Scandinavian call up), Bernstein (who battled it out with Heath Pearce for the LB spot), and Findley (Ugh) make the WC roster that year from the JC roster. Buddle was the fourth MLS player after blowing it up for the Galaxy early that season. This year would've also been one of those "Call in 30, hope 2-3 stick for spots 21-23 on the WC roster" camps. This year is the first, ever, to be very confusing. We don't have a WC coming up this summer and we don't have any important games coming up any time soon. I think what most of us hoped for happened with this camp, a focus on youth who could help us out in 5 years. This is an opportunity camp and each of these players should use it as such. For the young guys with lots of promise (Adams, Steffen, and Glad are three I can think of) it's an opportunity to show that they can be a part of this team for this cycle. For some of the more experienced guys (Hamid, Arriola, Roldan, Rowe, Agudelo, Sapong) it's an opportunity for them to push into the 23 or so players who can be reliably called upon to perform for the USMNT. For others like Ramirez and Opara, it's a chance for them to show the staff what they have to offer. Harkes, Canouse, Bono, Lima, Lennon, Hairston, Delgado all also have an opportunity for the coaching staff to see what they offer and if these players like the experience, they can fight tooth and nail at their clubs during the season to earn more call ups. If guys like Harkes and Canouse like this camp, they are sent away with their experience with the USMNT and the improvements they need to make in order to stick around. They then make those improvements or they don't. It doesn't hurt to plant the seed. Of course, the most confusing part of this is that there is a nearest to 0% chance that Sarachan will remain as head coach of the USMNT in a couple of months. While some might say that this fact makes this camp unnecessary or useless, I disagree. You're still giving guys the experience of being in this camp and hopefully a motivation to produce this upcoming season. In a day when MLS execs seem to love bringing in young talent from overseas, it gives the US players that extra motivation to train smarter and harder to get playing time for their clubs. Hopefully, this motivation is being poured on the U-20s tenfold as many of them should be breaking into the lineups of their clubs.
Good luck with that one. No one in the US will even be remotely interested in sponsoring it. Remember when Fox tried floating it? Everyone immediately started calling it The Losers Cup.
The emphasis should be on the u-23 aspect. It should be framed as a youth competition geared toward not making the same mistakes as last cycle, and it's something those teams would have the luxury of doing because none of the eligible players would be occupied with the WC. Making lemonade out of lemons.
Looks and feels like the USSF spinning its wheels and going through the hollow motions. This is nothing but the Fed (and its place holders) being fed. The footballing aspect is negligible.
Sure, maybe for US Soccer, this is just spinning the wheels, getting something out there. Maybe the footballing aspect is negligible from their point of view. For 30 players, I really doubt the footballing aspect is negligible for them, and these guys are the ones I care more about.