I watched football tonight because there´s always the odd chance of being entertained. I think that´s why most football fans watch football. I don´t think I´ve ever seen you comment anything positive on Dutch football, apart from on the odd Ajax game. Maybe you should just stick to the occassional Ajax game, and Barcelona. It would save you from a lot of misery. Unless you actually enjoy being miserable, of course.
It would have been a stupid system if we had quality defenders. But we don´t. If we didn´t have that defensive safety built in in midfield we´d probably play a lot more entertaining football and score more goals but we´d also concede more and lose a lot more games.
Alright that little shot at him at the end is unacceptable. I'm still trying to figure out his comment to you about the laundry though, not sure I understand it.....
I rarely disagree with you DSC05 but that was a football related comment. If watching Dutch football makes you feel miserable and if you slag off anything Dutch football related for years on end, then why watch it. A justified comment I should think. As for the laundry thing, I´ll let other posters judge for themselves.
I already posted before, the defender argument is the only argument you 'german style fans' come up with. These defenders aren't as rubbish as you make them look. In the dutch game, every player is also a defender. So in defense the defenders are supported by 7 other players. The traditional Dutch game, is attacking, but also defensive. When you have the ball, the other team doesn't. So look what Barca is doing, when they lost the ball pressure pressure pressure, beginning with the attackers. That was possible.
I think Strootman can count on being invited again next time. Against Brazil he was a little shaky at times, though still decent, but today he was one of the better players on the field.
You should show some respect for the man who's put Dutch football on the map. Who's been one of the few inspirations for positive football in todays era. Need I remind you that we didn't actually win anything under Van Marwijk against some easy games vs Denmark, Japan, Cameroon, Slovakia, Uruguay and the weakest Brazilian side of all time? Winning isn't everything. So we didn't win, we played bad, we further promoted the use of negative tactics and we lost the respect of most football enthusiasts (you know, those guys that enjoy the football rather than the jersey's) around the world. Pretty much sums up a shitty performance if you ask me.
It's nice to see him look forward before looking backwards. We have too many of those type of players already.
I quite agree that the Dutch defend like a team. All I´m saying is that you can´t compare the quality of this Dutch squad to the 1998 one, let alone this Barcelona squad. Matthijsen for example is a decent enough defender but a total footballer he is not. He is sadly lacking in the build up game. So you need a defensive midfielder in front of him who can contribute to build up play. I mean we´ve seen this time and again. In a 4-3-3 system, the traditional Dutch style, time and again we saw a huge gap between our midfield and the attack, simply because our defenders are limited and our midfielders had too much to do to help out defensively. The 4-2-3-1 might not be the most elegant of solutions, and it certainly isn´t Cruyffian, but it does work for this particular Holland squad. I mean when you look at how Holland play vs weaker opposition they do at times play spectacular football, they do push up then, even under Van Marwijk´s leadership. But against stronger opposition you have to make up for the weaknesses in your squad. Don´t get me wrong I would like to see Holland play more adventurous football against weaker opposition in particular. Affelay on the left wing and Robben on the right in particular, I like the idea of that. But Dutch football depends on team play rather than on individual strength. So I can sort of understand Van Marwijk that he wants to build a solid basis, first and foremost.
I'm positive when I see positive play. I'm not entertained by cowardice. The fact that you have rarely seen me pleased with the national team is because I continue to see negative football. It's a long shot from making me miserable, it's just a damn shame.
Michels availed of a better squad in pretty much every position than Van Marwijk does now. I personally couldn´t care less about what respect we´re getting. You do realise we got laughed at even when playing beautiful football - for losing and allegedly imploding when it mattered. All that did was get us the respect of pretentious elitist journalist who thought playing pretty football was more important than winning. I don´t know what´s worse, being laughed at for being losers or being despised for being negative. Considering the respect Germany is getting for its many world cup wins, I think winning despite being negative gets you more respect, end of the day.
You know bottom line for me is that you seem to be overestimating the quality of Dutch player material. Looking at the Dutch squad and comparing it to the Spanish squad, to me it is a miracle that we were very near winning a world cup final. My opinion is that the 1974 world cup has given the Dutch football community a false sense of entitlement that lingers on to this day. Why not look at each generation, each squad, individually. A relatively small country like the Netherlands is the world´s number two in by far the biggest sport in the world. Let´s put things into perspective please.
We just disagree on our quality...we have top quality, our defenders aren't koekebakkers. We can argue forever but I'm sure about my point, and you are aout yours.
Again fair enough Pablo but we were a quarter final team until Van Marwijk came in, and I don´t think Van Marwijk has better player material than his predecessors did.
No no don't agree. We were quarter final material in 2004 and 2006 when the generation of 1998-2000 just retired, and the 2008-2010 generation wasn't ready for the big work yet. That's something you can have as a small country, a transitional generation.
We got to the final,which is one hell of an accomplishment if you ask me and almost won it to. The most sh*t we seem to get was from the whiny stuck up British press and they love to throw sh*t at everyone(including themselves) and because we dared to criticise their holy Howard Webb. Lot's of others including the Spain national team and Sir Alex Ferguson agreed that we played very good. I have spoken to various orange fans from Egypt to Iran and they all still support us after the world cup. So no worries there.
I have never laughed harder about a football game than watching Uruguay against Costa Rica to qualify for the WC 2010 in the middle of the night here in Europe. My god I swear I was rolling off my sofa, tears came out of my eyes. The national anthem of Uruguay was played "longer'' than the game itself. Repeat after repaet and the guy singing it had all kind of paint on his face and stars like in the eighties. Classic. The whole atmosphere was so loaded. Priceless game. Would never have want to miss that. Better atmosphere than any WC game incluiding the final of the WC. Today they also did a trick on us. Played the anthem of themselves first instead of ours. hahaha, and came late on the field second half. Bad field also. All little things to get us out of our game. You got to love them, except when you are Ghana ofcourse .
I disagree. I people respect Oranje for our past performances rather than laugh at us. And I think positive play generates more respect than negative play. I think Oranje got most respect in '74 than Germany. And I think that nobody likes to talk about Germany's '90 team. I do know what better between playing great football and ending 2nd and playing shit football and ending 2nd. I pick the first. Also, other great teams we've had in the past are entirely irrelevant to the current situation. It's tactically a mistake to think that fielding an extra defensive midfielder makes you a stronger team. Actually, over my time on this forum I've continuously been explaining that fact. As Cruijff has tried to explain to the Dutch nation for at least a decade, to no avail. Playing 1 DM is defensively stronger and allows better build-up. The Spaniards actually made the same mistake in fielding the useless Xabi Alonso instead of an extra forward. That's one of the reasons their team doesn't even get close to playing the football and creating the amount of chances Barça does. The other reason obviously being Messi.
I think v Basten was a bit arrogant on Dutch TV to say we would have won on a good field with out bst 11 with 5-0. But missing your best 2 players, Robben and Sneijder shows that creating winning streaks is a difficult job without players in the ''buitencatogorie''. In the end of the day Brazil and Uruguay where not able to win from us. Australia only won after a red card already in the first half for us. Spain after a red card for Heitinga. The past years we have not lost under v Marwijk when it was 11 vs 11 until the end. That is a very strong stat. Problem is, I can't get excited about the WC we played in 2010. It is not a fond memory as was the EC 2008 where we destroyed Italy and France. Also that nice football came as a surprise as football under v Basten was not that great. A few games of v Marwijk before the WC (Hungary) where pretty nice. After v Marwijk, who will be gone within a year, it's time for Hiddink or de Boer who are maybe able to play nice football more consitently as past two coaches. A nice game of v Marwijk was against Iceland.....oke that says a lot. Hope de Boer showes this comming year something special and can evolve into a great new Dutch NT coach.
No De Boer. We need him for at least 5 more years at Ajax. Or maybe he can make it a duo-job. Would be great to have one of the few coaches in the world who questions the 2 DMs myth. Personally, I would like to see Rijkaard give it another shot. But I'm afraid Van Marwijk will just extend his contract. And Van Bommel and Kuijt will continue to not retire.