^best post of this thread. This guy gets it. That's what I was getting at, with the example of Germany. As the richest country in the world, we should pay a small fortune to someone like Guardiola or Hiddink; so much money that they'd have to accept, and have some real talent at the manager level, and then beef up our academy system. It's not about kids playing pick-up soccer all day long. Mexican kids do that and Mexico is not that good at the international level. Not even Brazil is, anymore, given that soccer has evolved and they also need more modern management which they don't have (Scolari was a joke, and Dunga is a joke). So, just having kids play soccer non stop in under-developed countries no longer makes the national team a winning one.
Paying through the nose for a top coach is fine. Paying that much for some clown who had never won anything before* is dumb. --- PS: I mean as a coach. It's as bad as picking Maradona to coach your NT.
As someone who has lived in Hamburg for two years, I disagree with your premise. Yeah, you don't see German kids play the stereotypical "street soccer" like Brazilian and Mexican kids do but all you have to do is have a walk and most community fields have some sort of pick-up game. The difference between Germany and the US is that soccer has been Germany's #1 sport for some time now. In the US, soccer has to compete with baseball, football, basketball, and hockey. You can put as much money into your program as Germany but if 90% of your player pool aspires to play in one of the four more popular sports in America, then you're not gonna get the same results.
More effective still would be paying a ton of good-to-better coaches to teach the young players at the lower age levels in academies throughout the country, not to mention referees.
Coaching is vital from the start, teaching proper footwork and how to shoot and pass. Through the years more skills are added and refined. We should heavily invest in young coaches, teaching the game at a basic level, then our style will develop organically. You cant force our player pool to play in a way they cant. Stoke cant be Barcelona, Barcelona cant be Stoke. You develop players to do the small things right, evaluate their talent, then adjust to fit their needs. Good defensively, then play that way. I like to watch total football but countering is just as beautiful. We cant progress until we progress our youth development. U12 and up should be identifying talents, teaching positioning, and refining, not hunking the ball down the field to your 1 good player and watch them do it all. JK has recruited dual nationals because of their developmental background, and because most under the US system are behind because they have to get brought up to speed in most cases. At the senior level, you cant waste time doing that, or youre even further back. Invest in youth coaches and leagues, good players will follow.
Not to start a shiitestorm, but serious question.... How different a result would it be if we just called up homegrown Americans? No European or Mexican mercenaries. I have a feeling we would've at least been more organized and "together". That's just me A lineup like this could've won the Gold Cup or gotten the job done yesterday: Besler Cameron Bradley Altidore Dempsey Feilhaber Yedlin Lichaj/Ream Zardes Lleget Would it have been pretty, free flowing, attacking football from the US? Hell no imo, but I know that this unit would've been a very compact, together, like-minded group. For us, the sum has always been greater than its parts.
And I'm not a Jurgen basher by any means, but he seems to he talking out of both sides of his mouth when it comes to funneling players into our senior team. He preaches youth development, but is constantly looking for FIFA loopholes he can exploit to get players from places outside of the States on our team. What kind of message is this sending to our youth? How can our youth players relate to guys who never stepped foot on US soil or never thought of doing it until they were rejected by their home country's national team? Not blaming those guys whatsoever or saying they're bad people. They have to do what they have to do. Just a thought...
Or how about re arranging priorities? i.o.w, instead of calling all dual nats and foreign based players and fill gaps with MLS players, how about starting with a domestic based team and filling holes with guys who have proven superiority abroad.
Let me give you an example of the practical meaning of my method. You will recall we were continually calling up Cameron. Cameron is a good footballer but not the full back Klinsi wanted. So why did he call him up? Because he plays in Europe in the prem. Klinsi really wanted him at cb but his club did not play him there. Cameron was one of ou highest rated players yesterday, something that hasn't happened before in my memory. Why is that? Because he began plaing cb for his club in premier league. So now was the time to call him when he was obvfiously playing at a superior level, not previously when he was being called just because he was a Euro in the prem. See what I mean?j All this times he was just taking away the opportunity or an MLS player getting his chance.
Kind of, but I think we're on different pages. I'm not against foreign club based players. That's great if they're actually doing something like Cameron is, and even like Bobby. But I'm just at a point where I'm tired of the mercenary culture that has taken over our program, and spits in the face of players who've crafted their trade on US soil. I like Fabian Johnson, he's doing major things on a major club. I get it. But this whole calling up dual nats just because they're dual nats imo is not healthy for the cultural fabric of our team. I'll take a Fabian, hell I'll take Jones, but wth is so much more special about Chandler and Williams than Cameron and Feilhaber?
I don't think the problem is Americans vs imports. Guys like Jermaine Jones, Fabian Johnson, Aron Johannsson, and Mix Diskerud have shown that you can get quality play and competitive spirit both home and abroad. I think the roster we had at the Gold Cup c0uld have won it, just like the roster from Saturday could have won that game. The problem is the players are being deployed incorrectly. Instead of creating a solid back four, we shuffle center backs in and out like a blackjack dealer. Wingers and fullbacks are put out haphazardly, never knowing who is overlapping and how far up the pitch anyone should be. Bradley is doing yeoman's work out of position, but is still clearly out of position and hasn't been as effective since 2011 (and STILL helped create two goals Saturday). No one knows where or how they are supposed to play. With a competent manager, these guys could win. Yes, in some cases (cough, BECKERMAN, cough) it's an incorrect selection of players, but more often it's the players that are picked being used incorrectly.
With two sub-17 world cups won and a gold in Olympics I would say that Mexico is pretty competitive and going in the right direction with the youth. The problem has always been with the mentality of the Mexican player but it's getting better. Getting back on topic a little bit the american press is a joke when it comes to soccer and I know that other sports are more important in this country but it seems to me that even the press that does give it coverage always go about it in a light hearted manner. Hearing the questions that the press asked JK after the game were a joke. He is too too comfortable there. what do you think?
Unquestionably. It seems the press is intimidated by him. Yet many members of the press, guys like Wahl, Glockner, etc are vocally criticizing him and pointing out the hypocrisy in his post-match comments. So why then are these guys not there to challenge the answers?
One of the things I've always thought lacked in making the MLS better is that there is no second division the teams can go down to if they have a really bad season or two. With a second division awaiting teams that do bad would make the league that much more competitive. Where am I going with this? with a second division you would see alot more progress with youth and have that much more local talent which contributes to the national team. but this country is not used to that in any other sports. if you have a really bad season or two oh well there is always next season thats the mentality. Please dont think im trying to rip on the mls or anything but having a second division is key in soccer to making your league better and producing more talent.
ALL the "Mexican" players called by Klinsmann were born in the USA. Conflating them with the players actually born in Europe (Germany, Iceland, Norway) is strange.
Yeah, I'm not sure how guys like Bedoya are "Mexican." It looks like people are just eliminating anything that looks like a Hispanic name and saying it's a list free of "Mexican rejects".
Sure that does happen in Germany. I remember playing football pretty much every day after school when the weather was good enough all the way until the age of 12-14 or so , when people either stopped playing or where already playing in some club somewhere. I wasn't even that into football in general, it's just what you did with your friends after school. And if I take a walk in the summer anywhere I see that happening still. But I would agree that this is only part of it. I was born in a small village with less than 4000 inhabitants and we have a football club with competitive teams for every youth level and a competitive adult team. So does the next village over and that over as well etc. And there are pretty much competitive leagues for every football club no matter how good or bad you are you can still play and there is always a way up with your club to a better league or for yourself to a better club if you are good enough all the way to the Bundesliga. Depending on where you live and how many clubs are playing you have ~7-15 different league levels to go through. That provides a seamless transition of talent from the bottom to the very top. That system is also a byproduct of football culture of a lot of people of all levels playing the sport, wanting to compete. You can not buy something like that or design it from the top down, it has to grow over time. That most of Europe is very densely populated is also a big help in that regard I think. In the lowest levels of play you pretty much stay where you are and there are still plenty of teams to play against no need for long drives.
Why? What is the population of the Netherlands? 17,000,000. What is the population of Dutch males between 15 and 24? 1,046,323. I'll write that again. 1,046,323. What is the population of the US? 326,000,000. What is the population of US males between 15 and 24? 23,000,000 + I'll write that again. TWENTY-THREE MILLION PLUS. We have 23 strapping young men available (not counting dual nationals living abroad) for every 1 Dutch male. So even if only 10% of your top athletes dedicate themselves to soccer you still have 2.3 players for every dutch player. It is simply not a demographic issue. Portugal has 650,000 men 15 - 24. Belgium has 625,000. Spain has 2,350,000. Italy has 3,000,000. Even if it is just 10% of our young males that pursue soccer. We have as big or bigger a pool than every one of those 5 countries, save Italy. I have lived in Germany too. It is deeper than demographics.
I wonder, of those 23 million, what percent of those are simply not athletic enough to ever contribute? Considering our obesity ratings, how many would never have a chance simply because they don't take care of themselves remotely starting from a young age? I know...even if it's half, you still have a much larger base to pull from. But when you consider that kids are playing football, basketball, and baseball before soccer (I know, huge youth system, but those numbers drop off precipitously at high school age) it thins down the herd quite a bit.
Soccer is taken seriously by probably under 5% of the US population: even second-generation Latin American, European and African immigrants move to football or basketball, or stop caring about soccer in general. Our total pool is even smaller, since many who take it seriously are going to choose college anyway. We're lucky if we have 3 million young men who see soccer as a valid option for their future.
You would have to machine gun the herd from a bullet train to get to the Dutch, Belgian, Portuguese numbers - and trust me, there are more that a couple of porcine little Flems running around the low countries. There are not enough transfats out there to level that playing field. We have the bodies. We have the athletes. We don't have the infrastructure, focus and drive at the level that it needs to be. We could. But we don't, yet.
But 3 million young men who see soccer as a valid option is 3 times the entire 15-24 male population of the Netherlands. 5 x the entire 15-24 male population of Portugal or Belgium. It is not a demographic problem.