PBP: United States vs Mexico; 10/10; 9:00pm ET

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by AutoPenalti, Oct 10, 2015.

  1. TheLostUniversity

    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Feb 4, 2007
    Greater Boston
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You really really want us to keep our "Ericsson".... it's almost as if you don't have our best interests at heart....;)
     
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  2. JohnnyFutbol

    JohnnyFutbol Member+

    Nov 5, 2009
    Haddonfield
    Club:
    Club Tigres de la UANL
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico

     
  3. Bubba1971

    Bubba1971 Member+

    Nov 12, 2010
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1578 Bubba1971, Oct 11, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2015
    Have you ever been to Mexico or Brazil (or any soccer country) and seen the way kids play? They're out on fields, street and beaches at 8 am playing competetive soccer. The kids that you're talking about in the US are getting a ride in a minivan to a two hour BS AYSO game with no goals. It's an immense difference. That's why I likened it to basketball in the States. When I was a kid we'd play for like 4 hours after school and all day on the weekends. And it wasn't organized kiddie stuff, it was real basketball. Soccer isn't like that in the US, and if you think it is you're delusional.

    The idea that you can take a 13 year old kid and "teach" them a skill that's been mastered by their Mexican counterpart when they were 6 is ridiculous. Soccer is more skill than "athleticism" and until we, as a country, realize that there are going to be a lot more nights like last night.

    Edit: Yeah, it's in our culture all right. It's in our culture as the sport where everyone's a winner and the boys and girls can play together. Good for us, I guess you and I will have to agree to disagree so that we can both be winners. Our team tried last night, and that's what counts, right?

    And it starts with someone running the show who gets that.
     
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  4. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    Our current manager and TD does in fact "get that" and yet has not been effective.
     
  5. Bubba1971

    Bubba1971 Member+

    Nov 12, 2010
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, he doesn't. He hasn't inspired or encouraged more kids to get outside and play. He hasn't moved our youth to craving, and needing to win and being embarrassed when they lose. He's perpetuated the idea of soccer in this country as being the "alternative" sport.

    I want us to start producing some kids with some nasty skill and nasty attitude. I'm sick of the hairdos, tattoos, and gerneral weenieness that is US soccer. You don't get better by wearing warm ups and adidas sandals to school or by playing hacky sack. You get better by getting your ass kicked by better kids until you learn how to beat them or give up and take up baseball.
     
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  6. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    Did we quit when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
     
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  7. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    If it comes down to kids playing on streets then we should have zero expectations for at least another 25 years. Probably longer. It sucks that for all the sport has gotten bigger in the U.S., it's still pretty inconsequential to most American sports fans. Paradoxically, sometimes it feels like the flashes of potential we've seen over the years actually make it harder to be a U.S. fan. Just when you think we might be getting somewhere, reality always hits and it's another "home" loss at the Rose Bowl, or another MLS crashout in the CCL, or another U.S. player failing to make an impact in Europe, etc.

    Sometimes I think the "culture" is either something you have or don't have period, and we're definitely one of the don'ts.
     
  8. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    Evolved? Evolved means you started as something else. When is this mystical cro-magnon time of Estados Joga Bonito? I would love to examine the fossil record.
     
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  9. Bubba1971

    Bubba1971 Member+

    Nov 12, 2010
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't disagree with any of this, except that I think we can make the game more competitive at every level starting tomorrow, and that's a start. We can at least put some weight on kids winning or losing and get rid of the stupid "everyone's a winner" mentality.
     
  10. Nyghtewynd

    Nyghtewynd I'd Rather Walk Alone

    May 30, 2006
    St. Louis, MO
    Club:
    Olympique Lyonnais
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The parents of children who want THAT sort of experience get their kids to play American football. Many parents have their kids play soccer precisely because they DON'T want that.
     
  11. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    Those arguing culture can suck an egg! NZ made the WC and every kid plays rugby. How about you recognize that we will never be Mexico because we are nation whose poor aspire to be great in other sports. I am Ghanian, I am well aware of how big soccer is there but people rely on individual talent and not a solid coaching staff or national program.

    This is the program the USA faces. The size of the country, college structure and player development. We need someone that is aware of this and can make the right changes. Sigi is my guy!!
     
  12. Iforgotwhat8wasfor

    Jun 28, 2007
    Um, Bubba,
    1. The goal of AYSO is encouraging youth physical recreation. Soccer is just the means. They certainly play with goal posts and nets. In any event, AYSO has taught soccer to much of the generations.
    2. The usual criticism is that US youth soccer is too structured. Too much emphasis on competition and weight on winning.
    3. Hairstyles and tattoos. Oh you never see that in international soccer :rolleyes: or jewelry 'cause, like, that's illegal. Or smoking.
    4. Your dream of 8 year olds out at 8AM ain't my dream. You can't make them mad about the game, and why. really, would you want to?
     
  13. Skadrist

    Skadrist Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    El Norte
    New Zealand is also in a very weak region where they are practically guaranteed a half ticket to the World Cup.
     
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  14. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    Yes because at this point we shouldn't expect the USA and Mexico always be top 2 in CCAF.
     
  15. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Kiwis in reality have more like 1/6th of a berth, since they're not going to beat the #4 of C-CAF or #5 of C-BOL, and they only have a 50/50 shot versus the #5 of AFC.
     
  16. Bubba1971

    Bubba1971 Member+

    Nov 12, 2010
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
  17. Skadrist

    Skadrist Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    El Norte
    Menotti said "You can turn a soccer player into an athlete, but you can't turn an athlete into a soccer player." Guys the size of Messi and Aguero would be laughed out of most formal youth academies here in the states for their size.

    Bubba is right about how the informal game develops players way better than formal youth style development. I myself learned more from playing informal soccer than I ever did in a formal environment. It isn't surprising to see Hispanic, African or Eastern European kids smash their peers at similar ages despite not having access to the higher end, camps and tournaments the rich suburban kids have.
     
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  18. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    the problem with this line of reasoning is it looks the wrong way. The countries that succeed at soccer that are most like us are Germany, Netherlands, Italy and Spain.

    Sure, some of that is culture - especially in the latter two, but in the 1st two it Focus, Organization and Money.

    Yes some Dutch and German kids play a ton of pick-up soccer. But most get in organized, serious, competitive (on the individual level, even if team play is not- you are fighting for limited slots.) from an early age. They sink or swim.

    That is why it makes me laugh when BS posters complain about Jurgen's pay. I complain about his pay too. It's too low. If we really want to attract someone who is going move us in big steps, we need to SHOW HIM THE MONEY. And we need to splash the cash all over - but only in REAL, COMPETITIVE, CUT-THROAT academies, along the lines of Ajax, or La Maisa, or Clairefontaine. It must be real money, directed at honest, single-focused academies on a big scale. It will take 10 to 15 years to pay off. It will move us a few notches on the scale - or at least create more consistency.

    But there are too many structural impediments at the moment. So it will instead be a slow grind up the hill, will some slips on the scree, and we will complain because we want a world class coach at also-ran prices and a world class program with entrenched interests still in place.

    Germany overhauled their system because they refuse to be a second tier soccer nation, no matter the costs. We don't have the will yet.
     
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  19. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Member

    Jul 18, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Just thinking, if we had fired JK right after GC and hired an experienced coach like Hiddink plus a few MLS coaches to help him choose players, would we have done better?
     
  20. JJV1994

    JJV1994 Member+

    Jun 16, 2013
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CD Chivas de Guadalajara
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Hahahaha so stupid .
    Listen kid , soccer isn't Football nor Basketball where some kid can play for two , three years and magically become a good pro prospect ala Ansah , Embid .

    Also your problem isn't "White Guys" , though I find it hilarious that you would even attempt to make this point considering the Champions of the World are by in large a White squad .

    Your problem and this isn't an opinion it's quiet frankly a fact , is technical ability.

    How do you solve this issue , I have no idea because as a Mexican - American who follows Tri Football .
    We struggle with technique as well and it is only because you guys are so bad that you make Mexico look so great.

    :coffee:
     
  21. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Yes, because the Mexicans went into this with an interim coach who was still training with his club, was doing this pro-bono, and had no experience managing NTs.

    It's really miraculous that they pulled a win, considering that. Even if their players are better, they presented a make-shift job here, underestimating us (and it could have cost them).

    Sending our team with creative players, and someone younger & faster among the people covering the defense, may have been enough to tip the scale. Not to mention improved passing, with a coach who actually practised it with the players.
     
  22. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Member

    Jul 18, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Why are we talking about player pool now?

    Is the player pool good enough for us to win WC like the ladies? Not at all.
    But is the pool good enough to let us get into the GC final, beating Jamaica and win against Mexico in at least 1 of 2 matches? Yes.
     
  23. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    First, idiot, I'm not Brazilian. Second, you post Argentina making fun of Brazil when Argentina hasn't won zip in two and a half decades (during the same period Brazil won 10 international titles). So, you fail twice.
     
  24. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Yes, we would.
     
  25. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Yes, I've been to soccer countries - lived in Brazil for several years and in Europe for several more. And again, the phenomenon you are referring to, while real, doesn't happen in Germany, and the Germans are still a big soccer powerhouse. So while the phenomenon you are describing is important, it is not essential. But we can agree to disagree on this.

    The part we do agree over, is that our "great" German manager needs to go.
     
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