Underrated Americans

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by Pl@ymaker, Jun 24, 2012.

  1. Pl@ymaker

    Pl@ymaker Member+

    Feb 8, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why are players who produce less than American players worth more? Why is it that Dempsey can score a lot of goals in the EPL but is stuck at Fulham? A player like Jack Mac has a better record than an Argentine player Sergio Araujo but is worth much much less??

    When are we gonna start getting more respect from the rest of the world? :mad:
     
  2. Gamecock14

    Gamecock14 Member+

    May 27, 2010
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    They play in different leagues so you cant compare the two. A more apt comparison would be Mcinerney and Agudelo in terms of goals per minute. Actually, Agudelo versus a lot of young strikers in goals per minutes played would be a good comparison.
     
  3. ImaPuppy

    ImaPuppy Member+

    Aug 10, 2009
    Using too many parentheses
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    In this game, a lot of it has to do with body mechanics and how a player "looks" while doing what he does, unfortunately.

    Jack Mac is effective, but in my opinion his physical attributes and "how he moves" cause people to underrate him, if thats how you feel about it.

    That's why guys like Pontius and Agudelo are preferred over guys like Wondo by many here. It is because they look the part when they move, just my 2 cents and of course this isn't the WHOLE story.
     
  4. El Niño Orgulloso

    Jul 5, 2009
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    This reminds me of the days, when Adu & Di Maria were in Portugal. Everyone would talk about how much Di Maria sucked & shouldn't be playing ahead of Adu. It was all because one was from Argentina, the other from USA.
     
  5. ScrappytheSeal4

    Jun 5, 2010
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He scores 2 goals in one game and immediately gets his own thread?
     
  6. Pl@ymaker

    Pl@ymaker Member+

    Feb 8, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This thread is not just about him. I've been following Jack since he was a U17 and he has always scored goals.

    Jack 1992
    Market value: 175.000 £

    2010–​
    Philadelphia Union
    41​
    (6)​
    2010​
    Harrisburg City Islanders(loan)
    1​
    (0)​
    National team‡​
    2008–2009​
    United States U17
    15​
    (11)​
    2010–​
    United States U20
    1​
    (1)​
    2011–​
    United States U23
    2​
    (0)​
    1 in a scrimmage vs. the USMNT


    Sergio Araujo 1992
    Market value: 1.100.000 £

    Team
    Apps†
    (Gls)†
    2009–​
    Boca Juniors
    15​
    (2)​
    National team​
    2009​
    Argentina U-17
    8​
    (6)​
    2011​
    Argentina U-20
    7​
    (1)​
    2011–​
    Argentina U-23
     
  7. chad

    chad Member+

    Jun 24, 1999
    Manhattan Beach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I recall a tournament in which he did not. Didn't he miss a lot?
     
  8. Pl@ymaker

    Pl@ymaker Member+

    Feb 8, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Which?
     
  9. chad

    chad Member+

    Jun 24, 1999
    Manhattan Beach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought in the U-17 that while he scored 2 or 3, he also was very very wasteful.
     
  10. Clenbuterol

    Clenbuterol Red Card

    Aug 25, 2011
    Club:
    --other--
    A lot of it has to do with reputation, traditions, scouting and agents.

    Look at basketball. American Scouts look at Euros and say okay that guy is putting up stats in Spain and Italy but can he do it in the NBA?????
    It is hard to translate stats from different leagues and cultures. There is always a risk.

    When an American puts up good stats it is eye catching a bit but there is still the American stigma to deal with. A precedent has not been set for decades like Argentines and Brazillians in the EPL.

    But it happens all over. There are threads like this in the Colombian section among others.
     
    Pl@ymaker repped this.
  11. Aduesque

    Aduesque Member

    Atlanta United
    May 11, 2010
    Georgia
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Till Di Maria went to Real Madrid is one of the best players in the world and Freddy is back in the MLS.
     
  12. SPA2TACU5

    SPA2TACU5 Member+

    Jul 27, 2001
    ATX
    Examples?
     
  13. BimmerBenz95

    BimmerBenz95 Member+

    Feb 24, 2012
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Di Maria is a really high quality player but he is not one of the best players in the world he is a Top 20 IMO.
     
  14. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's a great point and often missed. To often with our better MLS youngsters, the argument is well, they aren't tearing apart MLS so why would they be able to keep up in one of the better Euro leagues. Problem is, that argument is usually centered around stats, not the talent, technical ability or tactical acumen a scout will look at, and then picture those skills fitting into the system of the club he represents.

    Too many fans simply look at goals or assists, and draw their conclusions from them. Scouts don't. Sure stats weigh into the discussion somewhat, but scouts are mostly looking at a players talent and overall skill level and picturing it in a different system. Scouts also look positively or negatively at how a player here is used by his coach, the level of talent surrounding that player, the tactics the players coach uses and whether that player fits best into that system or not, and so on. Far, far too many fans on BS simply say, well that player isn't scoring as many goals as say, Wondo, so what the hell would a Euro club want with him? Quite ridiculous to not realize different talent fits differently elsewhere based on various systems and different surroundings. It's also not uncommon for a Euro scout to like a player, and competely disagree with how that players MLS coach is using him, and figure the club and coach they represent can bring more out of the player and put him in better positions to succeed.

    Going back to the NBA comparison to Euro leagues, it's common knowledge in basketball Euro stats don't represent a players value in the NBA due to a different, slower style of play. Look at Rubio, who with FC Barcelona barely averaged 6pt and 5 asts. Many casual fans, as we have many casual soccer fans here who do the same with MLS players, just blew him off due to those stats. Yet NBA scouts knew damn well it was the system and surroundings which greatly effected Rubio's stats, he came over here and averaged considerably better stats in a better league, his first year here. Same with Manu Ginobili when he came over from Italy. Juan Carlos Navarro played in Mem for a few years, went back to Spain and his numbers look worse there than they did here, in the world best league.

    The point of all this, is to stop acting like stats tell the whole story and start looking at how talent can fit into different systems, especially with coaches abroad who are superior tactically to many coaches in MLS, where a player will be surrounded with guys who think/see/play the game at a faster pace, and where foreign coaches feel many times they could use an Agudelo/Shea/Cameron more effectively than their coaches here have. Happens overseas as well. Verbeek has been much better bringing out Jozy's talent/skill than anyone at Villareal did, and AZ's scouts did not judge Jozy based on his stats, but rather his talent/skill and how they might better develop it.
     
  15. Adiaga Two

    Adiaga Two Member+

    Oct 4, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just making it on to the field for the Boca Juniors first team and Argentina youth squads is more difficult to do than scoring 6 goals in three years for Philly Union. Those prices are pretty justified if you are realistic about the gap in talent produced between MLS and the Argentine league.

    And why this Araujo guy of all people to pick on? He hasn't even been bought by a European club, so he's not even "overrated" yet except on the internetz. Maybe if Real Madrid had already bought this guy for 20 million Euros on those numbers, then your point would have a little more weight.
     
    SPA2TACU5 repped this.
  16. Pl@ymaker

    Pl@ymaker Member+

    Feb 8, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I chose Araujo to make the comparison because I've been a fan of his since the 2009 U17 World Cup also.
     
  17. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Christen Press's armpit
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Actually scouts are also affected by this, how people "move" especially if they are scouting player from a lower league where stats won't necessarily translate to a different or better league.

    This is why Agudelo was wanted by Atletico Madrid and why Pontius got invited to an A team camp in Europe without ever having to go to a January camp.
     
  18. ImaPuppy

    ImaPuppy Member+

    Aug 10, 2009
    Using too many parentheses
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    Yep, especially in a sport which isn't stat-heavy (unlike baseball). Scouting this sport is incredibly difficult compared to other major American sports in my opinion.
     
  19. ScrappytheSeal4

    Jun 5, 2010
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    False.
     
  20. WondoSoWonderful

    May 3, 2012
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Wondolowski=most underrated US player. He will probably go down in history as the greatest American MLS goalscorer ever, but JK can't figure out a way to get him on the field for the nats
     
  21. Adiaga Two

    Adiaga Two Member+

    Oct 4, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wouldn't be the first time.

    see Kreis, Jason and Cunningham, Jeff.
     
    soccerusa517 repped this.
  22. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's gotten a few chances with the NT lately. It's Wondo who can't find a way to beat out Jozy/Gomez/Boyd in training. If he wasn't being called in at all I might somewhat agree, but since he is you can easily make an argument someone like Brad Davis is the most underrated as he can't even get a shot.
     

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