UNC Tar Heels 2017

Discussion in 'Women's College' started by uncchamps2012, Dec 2, 2016.

  1. Soccerhunter

    Soccerhunter Member+

    Sep 12, 2009
    Nope. No back-up keeper. I really don't know the full story here, but I understand that having identified an undergraduate student who had previous experience playing high school soccer as a keeper, and going through the hoops of getting her properly signed up on the roster, she decided that she didn't want the job after all. (And I can certainly understand that. Perhaps she'd gotten used to and really liked campus life as a non-athlete as she never anticipated playing. And then it's come to all the practices, work really hard, take time out of your schedule to travel to all of the games, and essentially never get on the field.... unless disaster strikes.)

    So my understanding is that there is no designated back-up. It looks like one of the field players will have to change jerseys and give it a try if Sam gets hurt.

    The thing I can't understand is why her name still remains on the roster sheet. Physically she is not present. Sam Leshnak warms up by herself or with an assistant coach.
     
  2. babranski

    babranski Member+

    Dec 15, 2012
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    in one of the broadcasts Anson apparently is quoted as saying Taylor Otto is the back up keeper.
     
  3. Soccerhunter

    Soccerhunter Member+

    Sep 12, 2009
    Babranski, thanks of the great gifs. Loved the one of the score last night. It makes clear two serious defensive mistakes from the Tigers and three good plays by the Heels.

    Madison was completely unmarked in a dangerous position for the throw in (and this with all 11 Tigers within 25 yards of their goal.)
    Good throw in from Julia(?) to the unmarked Madison.
    Madison maneuvers for a shot and gets a good one off from about 22 or 23 yards as 4 defenders close in.
    The key heads-up play was from Dorian who ran around her mark while the ball was in flight to get ready for a rebound.
    The Tiger defender stands still watching the ball and then realizes Dorian has gone around her but it's too late. (She ends up pushing Dorian from the back just as Dorian makes contact with the ball, but to no avail.)
    The ball bounces off the bar and Dorian is in the right spot for a header (right over the keeper who gets her hands up too late.)

    So to score, three Heels make good plays and take advantage of what they were gifted.

    I like your analysis of the play surrounding Sam's extra box excursion. A number of excellent observations. ...But the crux of a near disaster for the Heels was a simple error of Sam not being sure whether she had crossed the line or not. Surely she did not intend to do so and was momentarily confused when the intended chip came straight at her head. You can see the very brief hesitation before instinctively her hands came up even though she could have simply headed the ball. Then, as if she had propelled the ball over the line, she cleared it with her foot. Yes, the ref should have called that and would likely have judged it "deliberate" (even I think it was not) and therefore likely issued a direct red for DOGSO. The result for that game (and the Virginia game with Sam not dressing) would both have been in jeopardy. The night lighting is so weak on that field, that the lines are hard to see using peripheral vision. We fans were not sure if she was over the line or not, I believe that she was confused about her position, and the ref was not sure to the point that no call was made. (If were a Clemson fan, I would be very unhappy.)
     
  4. fanosoccer

    fanosoccer Member

    Jan 17, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    I remember it being with 9 mins or so left in the game and she come way out of the box even though she did not need to as Clemson forward had 2 UNC defenders running with her and she clipped the forward who went down as did Leshnak. Could have easily been called a foul on the GK. And it left an open goal. I remember having a moment of Oh crap when it happened in real time.
     
  5. babranski

    babranski Member+

    Dec 15, 2012
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is the moment I have in & around the time you are suggesting... as you can see Leshnak clearly gets to the ball with her chest... if anything this is a foul (and possibly even a handball) on the Clemson attacker. I also have no problems with Leshnak coming out for this, as it was developing into a break away. Whether Leshnak would have come out for it even if a defender had positioning is another debate.

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  6. Gilmoy

    Gilmoy Member+

    Jun 14, 2005
    Pullman, Washington
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Judging only from that shrunken replay, I see three actions: (1) the collision, (2) possible handball, (3) clothesline.

    1. Collision. GK clearly wins the race, controls the ball, and gets run-into as she's departing the vicinity. Is that -- obstruction? Foul on whom? Some thought-experiments for similar configurations (to plot the boundaries):

    1a) A dribbles, B slides across and pokes ball away, A trips over B's legs. Often not a foul either way.
    1b) A dribbles, B slides through ball and thigh-on-thigh impact trips (and flips) A. Sometimes a foul on B, never on A.
    1c) A clangs ball away, B collects, A slides through (or runs into) B from the flank. Foul on A.
    1d) A begins her shooting motion, B slides across and pokes ball away (and probably would not have collided with A), A follows through with her foot into B's sliding body, then trips over B hard (and got hurt). This was in a FIFA W20(?) WC, and was ruled a foul on B for a penalty kick. On replay, half of viewers thought it was a foul on A, half disagreed :oops: and no consensus has ever been reached :mad:

    As the time gap between B's touch on ball and the A-B collision shrinks toward 0, these cases all start blurring into each other. Nonetheless, I tend to see this replay as (1a): GK clearly had the ball first. (Re GK's trailing left arm, see 3. below.)

    2. Handball. But this video is inconclusive, because the ball is obstructed by a torso. Anyways, it would be ball-to-hand, incidental. (Is the ref permitted to use judgment to ignore some balls-driven-into-arm?)

    3. Clothesline. The collision is actually between the forward's head and the GK's trailing left arm, oddly held straight out behind her at face-height. That was surely for balance (GK is thrusting her chest forward, counterbalancing by thrusting her arms back-and-out). Nonetheless, that portion of it could be deemed obstruction by the GK. Evidently, it did obstruct the forward's run, and was not part of a ball-playing body part or motion.

    I see (1) and (2) as no-calls, but (3) as a foul on the GK. It's not DOGSO, because the forward already lost the ball by this point, but it's comparable to this:

    3e) Longball way out of A's reach, but then B extends a leg and trips A flat.

    Man, I'm glad I neither ref for a living, nor review refs later in the week.
     
  7. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't see a foul by the GK on any of the GIFs I've seen. On the one in the post here, she's got to be allowed to chest the ball as she did, she got there first and possessed the ball. I don't see any foul by the GK. It's a "no call."

    On the other hand, there was a definite hand ball by the GK at the top of the box, on another play, that was missed call and what seems like a pretty obvious one.
     
  8. UNCway

    UNCway Member

    Jun 13, 2012
    Help me out here, folks. So it's okay that Sam is wearing the same color red-orange as UVA? A stealth keeper? Maybe Sam's is only red? The first time I could check into the game was just before halftime and at first wondered where the UVA keeper was with action in front of their goal--then I realized it was in front of our goal when Sam in red picked up the ball!
     
  9. uncchamps2012

    uncchamps2012 Member

    Jul 9, 2011
    UVa game.... they interviewed both coaches with headsets on while the game was going on, I am not sure I have ever seen this before in any sport- a coach interviewed when play was live. Anyways, I did not totally here what he said, but I thought he said that they could not start Bailey due to an NCAA rule. What is this about? Concussion?
     
  10. babranski

    babranski Member+

    Dec 15, 2012
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hockey does it all the time.

    I was also really confused when I heard Anson say this. There is a rule that's preventing Bailey from starting but it's OK for her to come off the bench? What rule? Concussion? Eligibility? Something to do with academia? I'm wondering if he was just trying to make highlight how deep his squad is & messed up the "rules" comment by trying to point to substitution rules.
     
  11. uncchamps2012

    uncchamps2012 Member

    Jul 9, 2011
    Yeah, I thought that maybe it was a flubbed comment about substitution rules, too, but doesn't college have basically the lossest sub rules in all of soccer past U10?!
     
  12. Soccerhunter

    Soccerhunter Member+

    Sep 12, 2009
    #362 Soccerhunter, Sep 24, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2017
    Back from Charlottesville..... Beautiful day; intense soccer game; good result for the Tarheels; better refereeing than Thursday; story of two halves.

    First, at tip of the hat to Virginia administration for making parking available for the soccer game in the midst of the concert series. Thousands of (music) fans streaming all over the place, dozens of police cruisers with flashing lights and cops directing traffic and swarms of people to various venues and all we had to do was go to the nearby parking lot and receive a friendly welcome when we said we were here for the soccer game...no questions asked.

    Also appreciation (as always when we are at Klockner) goes to friendly personnel (who thanked us for coming) and over a thousand avid (and appropriately noisy) UVA fans who were friendly and polite to UNC fans and cheered positively for their team. A class operation with classy fans. (Similar to our experience at Notre Dame.)

    OK. A tale of two halves. UNC controlled much the first half and scored their goals with two beautiful passing sequences. For these goals, the UVA defense didn't really make any serious errors; the Heels just pulled off beautifully executed goals. It was a pleasure to watch. (Go see the goals on youtube.)

    One play that didn't make the highlights was almost scoring in the second minute where more excellent Tarheel passing almost pulled off an early goal but for a deflection off a defender. And there was lots of great anticipation to the ball and good passing for the first 45 minutes.

    The UVA goal was deserved, but could be seen as a fluke in that Taylor's attempted clearance was deflected (not intentionally) off Zeimer's leg straight back to Sutton for a one touch blast off the underside of the bar at the left upper 90. Deserved because of Zeimer's hustle to get her leg in the way, and if one does not cleanly clear, bad things can happen.

    Second half, the Cavaliers came out charged up and played hard for the entire half. The Tarheels, by contrast did not seem to have the spark they had in the first half. But the Heels did play good enough to hold the UVA attack at bay, but it sure was a nail biter at times. Sam's fabulous save coming out to grab the ball off of Taryn Torres' shooting foot was the high light.

    Other random thoughts.

    I wonder about what is going on with Maya. As a defender she used to go 90 minutes and with full speed. Today (and on Thursday) she came out for significant minutes and did not appear to be that fast ....

    Zoe looked good for her 10-minutes-in- each-half, but not with her former intensity and speed. I trust that she will continue to improve. One through ball to her that had a little too much pace could have been a sure fire goal of it had been struck a little softer. (It went too far in front of Zoe straight to the keeper.)

    I have never seen any Tarheel take a dive or even embellish a hit for the benefit of the referee. I saw quite a bit of that behavior on Thursday, a huge (successful) example in the South Carolina game last year, and even a little today in desperation near the end of the game. I am pretty darn confident that Steve Swanson would never support or condone that, so does this come out of prior training? (The refs did't fall for it today or on Thursday.)
     
    uncchamps2012 repped this.
  13. babranski

    babranski Member+

    Dec 15, 2012
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh Soccerhunter, I have some UNC tinted shades on as well, but they're not THAT blue. No team is exempt from having some of it's player embellish contact trying to get a call.

    I think UNC has always done a good job coaching their players to avoid the unsportsmanlike conduct we've seen from the likes of Clemson & FSU. They don't complain to officials constantly or roll on the ground looking for calls even if one was deserved. At the most they'll look a little shocked or confused, have that "WTF?" face, & then get on with it. That's normal... well normal for UNC.

    That being said, I can name a few players on this team who have a tendency to embellish their falls. They get on with it like I've said when the embellishment doesn't work, but it's still there. There is also one particularly passionate player on this team that has a tendency to complain to officials, but if she was the worst in the NCAA the league would be in a wildly better place in that regard.
     
  14. Soccerhunter

    Soccerhunter Member+

    Sep 12, 2009
    OK. Point well taken, but I think that we would have to get a heck of a lot more specific in defining terms then.

    Yes, I am not counting the stunned look or the WTF face as they get up and get on with the game after what seems like a bad call or even protesting to a ref as the player runs off to join the play and there by accepting the call. I think that that is normal human reaction from many players on all teams and most of us would find ourselves doing the same if we had an immediate reaction that we had just been aggrieved. This is not what I am talking about.

    A good example of this today (on film) which I truly accept and understand is the very human reaction from Taryn Torres as she was upended by Sam who grabbed the ball from off her foot but whose momentum carried her into a collision. I thought Torres handled herself very well in the immediate aftermath of that interaction. Her facial expression and hand gestures were a human reaction to a perceived wrong, but she got up and went on. I thought she handled her emotions maturely and I applaud her. And while we all understand that most refs would no-call a keeper coming out aggressively if they got to the ball before or at the same time body contact was made (as it is the general assumption that if the keeper has her hands on the ball and is vulnerable on the ground then the field player should try to avoid contact.) So I can fully understand Torres' reaction, and were it I, I might not have behaved as maturely as Torres.) To repeat, this is not what I thought I was making reference to in my above post.

    I also am not talking about overly aggressive play and from time to time over the years we have had a few Tarheel players who have done that and it embarrasses me. Because it's obvious, the refs always call it for what it is and whistle fouls and pull cards. Embarrassing to me, but deserved. (It usually is freshmen and damps out in later years, and these players in most all cases have not been starters.)

    What I am talking about is faking contact, or purposefully inducing contact, or grossly exaggerating contact so as to "sell" the ref a (non-existent) foul. I may have Carolina Blue corneas, but I do pride myself in trying to be fair and as objective as I can be, and I just have not seen this kind of behavior from UNC players to any significant extent (and also in general have not seen this behavior in the vast majority of college teams.) But I certainly highly respect your observations and opinions, and because of that I will even more closely look critically at players in Carolina Blue to see if I am wrong.
     
  15. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    Did Dorrance shift Fox to more of a defensive role in the second half --and put her on a different side as opposed to the first half, or am I just dreaming?

    North Carolina played a strong first half--but I thought their first goal deflected off a Cavalier defender and went in. Isn't that what happened? UNC was pretty flat and defensive in the second half and kind of fortunate not to give up the tying goal during the 15-minute flurry by UVA to start the second. After that the game became kind of snoozy. It was a very hot day and that surely was a factor. Both teams are young.

    Nobody embellishes like McCaskill of South Carolina. Stoutest player on the field and guaranteed to go down whenever there is more than cursory contact. And both she and her teammates whine a lot. I do not like the gamecocks or their coach. Some kids will embellish periodically, but when somebody is consistently taking a tumble that player needs to be called it.
     
    babranski repped this.
  16. Holmes12

    Holmes12 Member

    May 15, 2016
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    #366 Holmes12, Sep 25, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2017
    There's bad blood between UNC/USC, right? Didn't UNC snag a verbal to the Smiths a couple of years ago?
     
  17. Soccerhunter

    Soccerhunter Member+

    Sep 12, 2009
    Not as far as I know. Anson and UNC officialdom are very careful about not directly criticizing players, coaches, or programs. So there is no "bad blood" that you are looking for there.

    On the other hand some fans have been critical, but Big Soccer posters and other fans do not speak for UNC or the soccer team.
     
  18. Holmes12

    Holmes12 Member

    May 15, 2016
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    #368 Holmes12, Sep 25, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2017
    hunter, note the first line or two of her UNC bio with respect to the fourth para in the linque below...an intelligence failure on the UNC's staff's part? CB's spreadsheet was functioning at the time, after-all. To me, the player herself initiated the jump pre-letter. She went to UNC's camp on her own while "verballed"...so it's perfectly "legit"..."verbal" is a two-way street. Too many times do coaches use "verbal" to apply pressure. But the Smiths..they mad at AD for feigning ignorance. I think it's funny, i love the competitive gamemanship. Too many of these soccer coaches are buds,

    http://www.thestate.com/sports/high-school/article22286529.html
     
  19. Crazyhorse

    Crazyhorse Member

    Dec 29, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What are you talking about? I have been following FSU for a very long time, and haven't heard them accused of unsportsmanlike conduct that I can recall.
     
  20. babranski

    babranski Member+

    Dec 15, 2012
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    then as much as we have a UNC tint on our glasses, you have FSU blinders on yours. There is no team that has been more unsportsmanlike in the country in the past few years than FSU, & it starts at the top with their coach.

    I have a thread of gifs pinned to my twitter account for the UNC vs FSU game. The original list of gifs was significantly longer. In the end, for the sake of time, I cut most of the gifs of the systematic FSU bullshit out. I left a few up, notably these two.

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  21. Crazyhorse

    Crazyhorse Member

    Dec 29, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think your alone in your assessment regarding unsportsmanlike. Mark is one of the most respected coaches in the country.
     
  22. uncchamps2012

    uncchamps2012 Member

    Jul 9, 2011
    #3 RPI- was anyone (other than cpthomas ) expecting that?
     
  23. uncchamps2012

    uncchamps2012 Member

    Jul 9, 2011
    I am not following what you are trying to say here. Try us again?
     
  24. European football fan

    Dec 16, 2015
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Go back to the Heels. I just came back from Brazil and the first thing I have done watching the replay of UNC vs UVA. This was a kind of game that could have gone either way. Probably a tie would have been a reasonable result.A couple of observations.
    Russo is really good, but she is not a CF, neither Andrejewski. They are excellent wing players. Talking about wing. The right wing was excellent in the first half. The left wing did not exist until Schultz came in. Bailey's goal was excellent. Again right wing got behind the defense and sent a low cross in and Bailey finished it perfectly.
    I thing the final starting forward line up in a month will be Russo on he left, Andrzejewski on the right and Redei in the middle. It could be a very powerful lineup.
    I thing Redei is fully recovered and she just need more time to get in form.
    I have more concerns about the defense. I do not agree with Soccerhunter that the defense played well. Many times they looked very disorganized. They ran each other etc. They got beaten many times.
    Leshnak. She is very interesting. I have seen her in the U17 NT and her mental lapses were always a concern. However, she is fearless and if she learns how to control her nerves she will be a great keeper.
    My favorite players Boyles and Buckingham did not have a good game.
    I believe this team has a great potential if they stay healthy.
     
  25. babranski

    babranski Member+

    Dec 15, 2012
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I will never respect a coach that sneers at an opposing player after a perceived missed call. It's one thing to chew out officials, it's another thing to spew garbage at a player. It was caught on TV for all to here during the ACC Championship game last year. Darcy McFarlane took a throw in that he perceived as illegal, he first yelled loudly at the official, & then lowered his voice & growled at Darcy "I guess you need the help."

    I'm sorry, with that & everything that can be plainly seen in game after game, it's clear that Mark sets the example that his players follow, & an FSU fan isn't about to convince me otherwise with hearsay.
     

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