UK General Election 2017

A definition of hypocrisy?

Taking in 20.000 refugees over 5 years - about as many as arrive in Munich on a single day.

 

Who wouldn't choose Germany where it's sunny 24/7 as opposed to the dark and stormy Isles!

 

I guess any further question on why the UK should leave asap is obviously superfluous now.

Or as one of Angies aides put it: You're wreckers!

 

That's one... but there are others...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34172729

There is an economic and demographic backdrop to the differential policies towards asylum-seekers of Germany and the UK - to Germany's relatively open door, that compares with the UK's heavily fortified portal (which will be opened just a bit by David Cameron later today).

The two relevant points (leaving aside moral ones) are that:
​

1. 1. the UK's population is rising fast, whereas Germany's is falling fast;
   2. the dependency ratio (the proportion of expensive older people in the population relative to able-bodied, tax-generating workers) is rising much quicker in Germany than in the UK.

So to put it another way, it is arguably particularly useful to Germany to have an influx of young grateful families from Syria or elsewhere, who may well be keen to toil and strive to rebuild their lives and prove to their hosts that they are not a burden - in the way that successive immigrant waves have done all over the world (including Jews like my family in London's East End).

Here are the European Commission's projections from its Ageing Report that was published earlier this year.

It projects that Germany's population will shrink from 81.3 million in 2013 to 70.8 million in 2060, whereas the UK's will rise from 64.1 million to 80.1 million.​

Of course, this is also in the context of the fact that Germany has paid about half what the UK does in foreign aid for the past several decades.

So, importing a new, younger, (and now, grateful), demographic and portraying it as demonstrating your 'caring' and 'compassionate' side... yeah, that's another example of hypocrisy

This is also in the context of the UK having spent more than all it's 'so-called' European partners, put together on funding the refugee camps.

To be clear, I think we should be allowing in more than the 5,000 we already have and the 20,000 we're talking about now but, of course, the ones we're taking are from the vulnerable persons program, usually children and women with children, sometimes sick, (there was a kid with Leukaemia interviewed the other day on the BBC).

IMO nobody comes out of this looking good. It's been a catalogue of evasion, hypocrisy and political point-scoring from all concerned.

Indeed, it's hard to get away from the suspicion that Merkel is using this as a way to undermine call-me-dave's efforts at 'renegotiation'. If that IS the case, (and she's a politician so I wouldn't put it past her), I don't know why she's bothering... he'll feck it up on his own without HER help.

It's not like Germany has ever shown much desire to help the poor abroad as I've already mentioned.

 

Thats bullshit. Nobody's helping and applauding refugees in stations for economic reasons. Thats disgusting to suggest Germany would think like that. This is one of those easy answers to difficult questions/problems. "Wow, the Germans seem more compassionate than we do, no this can be the case!"

The UK under Dave has been pictured as some horde of special forces kicking refugees of the Eurostar. On the other hand this is a new Germany liking to help and this has given us the moral high ground and finally some signs of central power leadership.

 

Like they did with Greece, y'mean?

Come on... what are yer, 9 years old? She's a politician and they've ALL got one eye on their voters. She'll get some grief for this from some quarters in Germany but she's bringing in people who are reasonably well educated and literate AND will be very grateful and hard working.

Isn't it strange how the same people that tell us about economic realities when it's the Greeks and have been notably absent when it comes to putting their hands in their pockets for DECADES for money to help poor people abroad, (y'know, the ones that AREN'T on the TV???), are now the SAME people lecturing people about moral responsibilities.

How very odd!

 

Well, Greece was on their on democratically elected ticket out of the EU. Not much to do or show leadership for(or against).

So you're talking about Merkel or her govt?

I was refering to the people handing out sweets, donating old stuff and applauding refugges in train stations.

What would happen in Dover if there were ferries bringing 20.000 refugees into the country?

Or are you saying those people were paid by Merkel?

There is nothing odd about this. What should be odd? Greece is treated fairly well. Theyve recieved generous solidarity by other Europeans. Go and ask the nurse in Portugal or the govt employee in Finland. Germany, as net contributor, has also given generous development aid here in Europe through structural funds. Apart from that was Germany never a colony power of magnitude. So to clean up the mess that was left in Africa and elsewhere, their wealth was robbed by the same colony powers over centuries as you know all too well, is the task and duty of those very powers.



Anyways, Im sorry to see a British self-declared lefty has got such a deranged conception of the human being. You might be right about some careerist politicans to the right and we can debate if that includes Angie, but you are more so wrong about the rest. You guys once used to be the safe haven of moral - you are not anymore.

 

Merkel and the German government, obviously. People are pretty much the same all over. The amount of difference is negligible and can be altered by the 'meeja', which, I freely admit, is pretty crap over here.

 

So is this thread going to keep going until the Brits vote to leave the EU?

 

I doubt that's going to happen, tbh, but we'll see.

We've still got the labour leadership election campaign and the tories are busy screwing up the economy so, y'know... stuff

 

From Europe's pov, you are already gone:

http://nation.com.pk/international/10-Sep-2015/eu-unveils-bold-plan-to-share-160-000-refugees

 

Was talking with my brother, (who's not a labour supporter particularly), about this and he said he suspected the tories might have a greater problem arguing against Corbyn than against the right of the party who, essentially, agree with everything they say.

 

People always say that if the party was closer to the base they would have done better in the election.

Well here it is Labor doing just that.

So we will see if this is true. Perhaps the base gets fired up and in the next election Labor gets back to power.

IMO more likely, Labor is going to take the biggest ass whopping ever (if Corbyn even makes it that far).

I am sure there will be some Labor people that will claim Corbyn was not left enough.



Backwards, comrades!
Jeremy Corbyn is leading Britain’s left into a political timewarp. Some old ideological battles must be re-fought

http://www.economist.com/news/leade...litical-timewarp-some-old-ideological-battles

 

Didn't Labour try that once

 

Actually that's the real danger. Not the left leading to electoral defeat but the right, unable to actually win any of the arguments, decides to leave and join the tories form a new middle-ground party which is what happened, of course.

 

From that bastion of free political thinking and unbiased analysis, 'The Economist'

If he does what he says he's going to do, allow debate and development of ideas, then it'll be fine because, in reality, most of the stuff he's come out with, (regarding anti-austerity for example), is supported by mainstream economic thought.

Some of the other stuff won't work and/or is too expensive/difficult to implement. It's just a question of sorting the wheat from the chaff.

But there's a difference between the way the 'meeja' portray him and what he's like in reality.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Corbyn#Parliamentary_career

At the 1983 general election he was elected Member of Parliamentfor Islington North and immediately joined the Socialist Campaign Group, marking him out as one of the most left-wingLabour MPs, and he then sat on theParliamentary London Regional Select Committee from 1983 to 1987. Shortly after being elected to parliament he began writing a regular column in TheMorning Star, which he continues to the present day. He later sat on the Social Security Select Committee from 1992 to 1997, the London Regional Select Committee for a second time from 2009 to 2010, and the Justice Select Committee from 2010 to 2015.​

So he's sat on two of the bigger and more important select committees, (social security and justice), and, AFAIK, has NEVER stood apart from their findings so he clearly CAN work with people who disagree with him and find a compromise.

Some of the other stuff is supported by large sections of the public, (70%+), such as building more houses and not re-issuing the train franchises when they run out.

So we'll see...

 

https://twitter.com/search?q=piggate

 

Yea like you have never done that.

 

Whose gonna stop that communist lunatic Corbyn? Please tell me there will be a military coup once he gets close to the big red switch?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...892383/Jeremy-Corbyn-911-was-manipulated.html

 

I'm pretty sure one of his positions is to make sure the UK has no more big red switch.

 

His ideas will stop him. Plus he hates nukes, so the red switch would do nothing if he had his way.