UEFA Nations League

Discussion in 'UEFA and Europe' started by CShine, Oct 10, 2013.

  1. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    That idea is being floated to increase FA's revenue ... it could be one of the "innovations" in 2018.
     
  2. Ed-D

    Ed-D Member

    Spurs
    United States
    Jun 13, 2005
    NY
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh. Not sure how I feel about that. But I suppose I would get used to it...
     
  3. fridge46

    fridge46 Member

    Oct 23, 2011
    Infographic

    There is one thing however I am struggling to get my head around...

    The "play-offs" feature 16 teams. These are formed according to the original NL groups (ie 4 countries in NLA will play in the League A playoffs, 4 from NLB in League B playoffs, etc..). Where there arent enough countries, the highest ranked from the League below takes vacant spots.

    So my question: In the case of a vacancy in League A playoffs does i) the best team in NLB move up to League A playoffs? or ii) do they stay in the League B playoffs and the best NLB country not to qualify for the League B playoffs move up to League A playoffs?

    Let me try and paint a picture:

    I have grouped the countries according to the last UEFA rankings I could find; and at the end they ranked according to the lastest FIFA rankings. Additionally, after EURO 2020 qualifiers, the top 20 according to FIFA qualify directly for the finals (in red):
    upload_2014-12-5_1-12-42.png

    So would the playoffs be:
    i)
    League A: SWE, HUN, SVN, SRB
    League B: TUR, IRL, NOR, ISL
    League C: WAL, SCO, POL, MNE
    League D: NIR, ALB, CYP, LTU

    or

    ii)
    League A: TUR, IRL, NOR, MNE
    League B: SWE, HUN, SVN, SRB
    League C: ISL, WAL, SCO, POL
    League D: NIR, ALB, CYP, LTU

    ?
     

    Attached Files:

  4. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    What a bad idea. This is applying the Champions League logic and recipe to international football. A monstrous concept, solely intended to protect the larger markets. :thumbsdown:
     
  5. Timanfaya

    Timanfaya Member+

    May 31, 2005
    Southampton
    I'd been assuming it's ii) because that tends to benefit the group winners rather than the runners-up. Could be wrong though!
     
  6. NorwegianViking

    NorwegianViking New Member

    Nov 24, 2014
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    As i understand it one team in each division (a,b,c,d) will qualify through a play-off.

    I would prefer many small regional groups instead. That will give some intense neighbour matches that attract many people. Short travel for the fans.

    This under just an example where the team can be switched each qualification.

    Benelux group:(Belgium,Holland,Luxembourg)

    E.g two UK+ireland group (England,Wales,Gibraltar)
    -------------------------------(Scotland,Ireland, Northern Ireland)

    Two balkan groups:(serbia,bosnia,Macedonia,Slovenia)
    -----------------------(Croatia,Montenegro, Albania,Greece).

    Two nordic groups:(Denmark,Norway,Faroe Islands)
    -----------------------(Sweden,Iceland,Finland)
    --------etc.

    And then this regional champions can go into paly-offs against the winners in each group to play for the euro championship. With four teams qualifing for the championship.
     
  7. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013

    From what I've read, it would be your i) play-offs.
    If there are less than 4 teams in a league (that didn't qualify through the EURO 2020 qualifiers) that league's play-off berth moves down to the next league. In your example that would mean 0 play-off berths for League A, 1 for League B, 2 for League C and 1 for League D ... probably League A teams (if there are those that haven't qualified yet) and the best placed League B teams are put in the same play-offs ... the remaining league B teams to be grouped with the best from League C ... and so on. This is only an assumption ... we'll have to wait until UEFA publishes the final format.

    I'm surprised that UEFA allows for a huge churn in the promotion/relegation battle ... e.g. in league A 1/3 of those teams will relegate ... Germany or Spain could "easily" be relegated ... promotion/relegation play-offs would make it less slippery (to be played at the same time as the Final 4 competition) ... yet UEFA seems to opt for direct promotion/relegation. I'm guessing that only the group draw will make it less slippery ... at the moment League A looks like (with the results from remaining EURO 2016 qualifiers and final tournament + 2018 World Cup qualifiers still pending):

    Germany, Netherlands, England and France would be top seeds
    Spain, Italy, Ukraine, Belgium would be pot 2 teams
    Czech Republic, Croatia, Portugal, Romania would be the pot 3 teams

    => Germany, Spain and Portugal would be a very hard group
     
  8. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    "The overall UEFA Nations League rankings will determine the composition of the draw pots for the subsequent European Qualifiers" - UEFA

    Unsure if there will be other criteria for those draws (e.g. coefficients) ... your team's performance in the UNL could very well be the only one.
     
  9. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    Nations League update (with the results from remaining EURO 2016 qualifiers and final tournament + 2018 World Cup qualifiers still pending):

    Nations League A (group winners advance to Final 4 and 3rd placed teams are relegated to 2020/21 Nations League B)

    Top seeds: Germany, Belgium, England and France
    Pot 2: Holland, Spain, Portugal and Croatia
    Pot 3: Austria, Romania, Slovakia and Italy

    Nations League B

    Top seeds: Switzerland, Czech Rep., Iceland and Ukraine
    Pot 2: Russia, Poland, Sweden and Bosnia
    Pot 3: Denmark, Slovenia, Hungary and Israel

    Nations League C

    Top seeds: Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Rep. of Ireland
    Pot 2: Norway, Albania, Greece and Turkey
    Pot 3: Montenegro, Serbia, Bulgaria and Lithuania
    Pot 4: Finland and Cyprus

    Nations League D

    Top seeds: Armenia, Azerbaijan, Estonia and Latvia
    Pot 2: Moldova, Macedonia, Belarus and Georgia
    Pot 3: Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Kazakhstan and Faroe Islands
    Pot 4: Malta, San Marino, Andorra and Gibraltar

    PS to serve as an indication, France's ranking is based on 2x their cycle 1 results ... their WC2018 Qs + EURO2016 final event results will eventually be used in cycle 2.
     
  10. SJJ

    SJJ Member

    Sep 20, 1999
    Royal Oak, MI, USA
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Where do you get these rankings from, Blondo? Is there a specific Nations League rankings? The latest UEFA National Team Coefficients show the top four as Germany, Spain, England, Netherlands. (You have Belgium instead of Netherlands.) The second four are Belgium, France, Portugal, Italy (not Croatia). Third four are Croatia, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Romania. (Austria is out of the top 12.): http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/competitions/General/02/23/05/93/2230593_DOWNLOAD.pdf
     
  11. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    http://www.footballseeding.com/national-ranking-uefa/ranking-2017/
     
  12. SJJ

    SJJ Member

    Sep 20, 1999
    Royal Oak, MI, USA
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Got it. You are using a system that doesn't include the 2012-cycle, but somehow does give Russia the points for the 2018-cycle, when no other team can currently get points for that cycle. If you remove those "cycle-3" points, then Russia has 11490, which would put them 16th (which would closely match the current UEFA ranking of 18th).
     
  13. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    Yes it's based on partial results (to be updated when more results pour in) ... the coefficient used for the first edition draw will be the one published at the end of the WC2018 Qs ... consisting of:

    - 20% WC2014 Qs and final event (cycle 1)
    - 40% EURO2016 Qs and final event (cycle 2)
    - 40% WC2018 Qs (cycle 3)

    * Because Russia doesn't play qualification of FIFA World Cup 2018, instead that, they will count qualification of UEFA Euro 2016 again - also in Cycle 3.
    * Because France doesn't play qualification of UEFA Euro 2016, instead that, they will count qualification of FIFA World Cup 2018 again - also in Cycle 2 (+ UEFA Euro 2016).


    France is also ranked 4th when sorting solely by cycle 1 results instead of looking for an indication of their cycle 2 results ... with France ahead of them, Russia would then end up in 17th place (after removing their cycle 3 results) ... currently placing them in pot 2 of Nations League B.
     
  14. PaaAllen

    PaaAllen Guest

    I think revenue Influx is key here.More and more Money.
     
  15. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    We're now heading down the home stretch ... only the results from World Cup 2018 Qs still pending

    Nations League A (group winners advance to Final 4 and 3rd placed teams are relegated to 2020/21 NL B)

    Top seeds: Germany, Portugal, France* and Belgium
    Pot 2: England, Spain, Italy and Switzerland
    Pot 3: Austria, Croatia, Poland and Wales

    Iceland (18.174) and Holland (18.085) not that far behind Wales (18.328)
    *only an indication ... Russia to drop below Bosnia (excluding Russia's points from cycle 3)

    Format ... table & standings ... the race is on.

    The inaugural Nations League will be cut-throat ... top sides facing each other straightaway in qualifiers for Final 4 ... e.g. GoD of Germany, Spain and Croatia (tough yet mouth-watering Qs) ... with 1 of these teams being relegated and only 1 qualifying for the Final 4 tournament. Germany could drop down to NL B and no longer be a top seed for the subsequent European Qs (overall UEFA Nations League rankings will determine the composition of the draw pots)

    This could be at stake:

    - Final 4 (inaugural Nations League Championship in June 2019) or promotion to a higher league
    - relegation to a lower league (1 in 3 chance of being relegated while facing tough opponents)
    - 4 EURO berths after play-offs (maybe WC as well)
    - top seed status in European Qs (or ending up in a lower pot ... EURO2020 could already have very uneven Qs)

    It seems that UEFA aims to make this a major tournament ... EURO2016 was awful while the 2018/19 Nations League looks very attractive ... every summer will be a summer of football with a chance to win silverware.
     
  16. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    Yeah, alot will change though with 40% of the equation still unknown. We could see that Pot 3 getting even stronger, with the inclusion of France for instance (replacing Austria with pretty much anyone will make it stronger).
    A lot of surprises in Euro 2016 qualifying so will be interesting to see if that trend continues or if it was just a fluke.
     
  17. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    During the Qs you can keep an eye on table & standings ... will be updated as soon as results pour in.
     
  18. NaBUru38

    NaBUru38 Member+

    Mar 8, 2016
    Las Canteras, Uruguay
    Club:
    Club Nacional de Football
    Rugby, field hockey and volleyball national teams have shirt sponsors.

    Anyway, the smaller federations will oppose it, as they will get less money than larger federations.
    If UEFA centralises sponsors, everyone can get a fair share of sponsor money.
     
  19. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    Not any change in terms of the top 12/composition of Nations League 'A' after last week's matches. But decent results for Netherlands and Iceland on the road, while Poland not taking advantage of having an easier fixture than those 2 teams chasing them. So looking good for NED to get back into the top 12 by year's end as Poland has difficult fixtures @Romania & vDenmark coming up, while NED will surely win at least 2 of their next 3 matches (@Luxembourg, vBulgaria, vFrance).

    Albania meanwhile replaced France to hold a a Nations League 'B' position.

    Though I guess France' position is a bit misleading since they will get double points from here on (since they didn't partake in Euro 2016 qualifying)
     
  20. Hideo

    Hideo Member

    Newcastle United and Shimizu S-Pulse
    Apr 30, 2010
    Newcastle upon Tyne
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I'm quite looking forward to the Nations League kicking off in a couple of year's time. Though I'm not convinced of the merits of giving each league winner a place at the Euros, since one of those will be quite weak.

    On the other hand, as someone who has researched some of the lowliest national teams (see below...) I am rather thrilled at the prospect of San Marino, Gibraltar et al having some meaningful matches that they can realistically win.

    For those at the top I suspect a degree of cynicism may abound at first, but hopefully it will become a worthwhile competition that the top teams take seriously. After all, with only one trophy to compete for every two years, an extra opportunity for silverware is not to be sniffed at.
     
  21. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    I take your point but San Marino and Gibraltar are too small and still won't be winning anything ever. It does however provide an opportunity for the likes of Moldova, Malta, Leichtenstein, etc. to play more competitive games that they can actually win.
     
  22. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    Considering how statistically savvy the designer and maintainer of that website must be, you'd think s/he would rank Russia a bit more logically. For example, I would divide their cycle 3 point total by 10 and then add those 10 pieces one-by-one as we progress through each of the 10 matchdays in WC qualifying.

    If we did that then Russia would have 18,787 points right now and be ranked 15th. That would push Iceland into League "A" and Spain into the top seeded pot of league "A".

    They should do something similarly appropriate for France. Both of those nations current ranking has no basis in reality and therefore slightly messes up the ranking of every other nation in the top 24.
     
  23. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    Here's another source (less frequently updated) ... it doesn't bother me that Russia's coefficient is final ... as an indication I already expected Russia to drop down a league and France to reach top seed status in the top tier league (frenchies really need to screw up royally to fail to end up in League A) ... I'm happy with the standings (+ caveats) that footballseeding provide.
     
  24. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    Coefficients are edging closer to the final ranking ... only 28% left to earn ... 4% in each of the remaining games. Funnily enough, for some countries it might be better that they end up in a lower league ... especially top seed status in League D will mean soft games, against the likes of San Marino, Liechtenstein, etc., in which you can win a play-off spot and EURO2020 berth (+ promotion to a higher league) ... a big incentive for a team that probably never had a chance to play in a big tournament.
     

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