U20 World Cup Thread

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by Glove Stinks, Aug 1, 2018.

  1. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Off-topic here, but maybe more than a pair: Nagano and Ueki have already being called for Senior Team camps although they didn't debut yet, and I guess others as Endo, or maybe even Minami could get a chance (as for Minami, we'll need CBs option, when the likes of Kumagai, Utsugi and Sameshima will be aging).

    As for USWNT, you're probably right that there is no immediate Senior NT material in this U-20 team, but, having seen two US matches in Concarneau a pair weeks ago, I'd say that maybe Sophia Smith could become an interesting player (especially if she learns that her impressive run is good but is not everything).
     
  2. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well said.
     
  3. MiLLeNNiuM

    MiLLeNNiuM Member+

    Aug 28, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just don't tell @jackdoggy that winning doesn't matter. :D

    On a more serious note, I wonder what practice techniques Japan and Spain use to train their teams to play so cohesively with such fine passing skills?

    Our youth teams cannot handle being pressed. It irks me for years now watching them struggle against the press.

    I would've loved to see our U-20's training against our U-23's to gain experience, confidence, and composure against tougher opponents.
     
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  4. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    actually problem would of been fixed; if the US could of won it's Concacaf qualifiers final vs Mexico, then would of been higher seeded/in another group

    the hero that day, winning the PK shootout(at Concacaf finals), the Mexican GK.

    Emily Alavarado
    born & raised in El Paso
    select club; Texas Rush
    college club; TCU

    you could say, we were beaten by our own game!
    a bit of a high figure; nationwide. less than 10% of high school players go on to college ball. Most parents wouldn't invest on club soccer if they didn't think that their kids would eventually want to play college. There's probably some club kids though that might give up on college ball if they get a better academic offer.


    but we are!


    black soccer culture in Atlanta
     
  5. jackdoggy

    jackdoggy Member+

    May 16, 2014
    Big D
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hey, I said 3rd not 1st.:D:D
    The last 2 matches, U-20 Japan looked like Senior Japan from 6 years ago.
    I am no Spanish Cultural Attache, but it appears that the lightbulb has come on and they realize that young ladies can play futbol too. + the Dutch......LOOK OUT.
     
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  6. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I have not seen a Japanese practice session in quite a long time and I have never seen a Spanish one on the women's side BUT from watching the two play I do know one thing that must always be an emphasis that makes everything else work. First touch. The best players both individually and in a team context can take a ball coming to them, no matter how badly it is hit, and place it exactly where it needs to be to make the next touch, pass or dribble or other, as easy as possible, Most of the US players, man woman young or old, lack that skill to one degree or another while it is rare to find a Japanese or Spanish player that does not at least have that skill to one degree or another well beyond what is the norm over here. If the players have a good first touch skill then it is MUCH easier to teach team skills as the practice does not break down every time a pass is a little off.

    Unfortunately the first touch skill is not well suited to "team" practice and it is hard to practice alone. In the US we tend to not practice away from the regular practices in groups of two to four. In other countries kids play in small groups with a soccer ball and they learn first touch almost by accident and they enter the formal programs better prepaired and that means that coaches can work on the team without having to spend as much time on basic individual skills.

    Everything builds from the basics and it takes a good while to get younger US players up to the point where team skills can be taught effectively.

    It is fortunate for the US that basic skills can be developed over time and by the time US kids are ready to play at the higher levels the basic skill set needed have often been developed. The problem with that approach is that the ability to think as a team is delayed.

    I think that is a reason why the US often seems to trail in team skills at the younger age groups then seems to catch up later.

    One other thing is basic attitude. In the US we encourage the most skilled players to work to get even better and excel on the field. In many other countries (Japan for sure) the best players are tasked with using their skills to make other players better and that also makes team coaching more effective.
     
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  7. RevsRule

    RevsRule Member+

    NE Revs, LAFC
    Jun 9, 1999
    N. Eastern, Mass
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #257 RevsRule, Aug 21, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2018
    I don't know about all this one way or another but what I do see when watching Japan play is a high degree of Individual skill coupled with a high degree of organization. There is a good reason their triangles work. Their movement to get open is a pleasure to watch. They simply wore England down then had their way with them. Once they went up 2-0 they seemed to take their foot off the gas to a high degree and conserved a lot of energy.

    I like the way Japan plays the game but it's totally different than the USA game. They seem to realize that they cannot physically overwhelm people so they found something different that works. The bigger Germans/English were no match for their game. We still depend on more on athletic ability over skill and positioning and this is the real problem with US Soccer. Other teams are getting more sophisticated and we're not. Until we get coaches that move us towards the Japan/Spain style game... were going to have problems. Even now on the Sr team.... we have problems with teams that pack it in. We cannot break them down if there's little transition and have no other solution other than cross it and prey. It's going to take coaching changes from top to bottom but that wouldnt be popular as long as we are managing to still win with our present system. Long term we need to move beyond that. Maybe we should hire a Japanese coach to revamp our younger teams? lol Im sure it would have to all blow up before that would ever happen. Maybe its no accident that those two teams have advanced to the final

    I totally expect Japan to take Spain apart in the final, just as they did England and Germany
     
  8. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member+

    Jul 6, 2000
    fun videos, but they only illustrate spot (& growing of course) enthusiasm.

    this COUNTRY tho, is not a soccer culture.

    culture is more than rivalries and enthusiastic fandom in certain spots - cascadia, ny, atlanta etc., especially in a country with other historically dominant sports cultures. culture is definitely more than the NUMBER of girls playing the game -. especially when most of them are playing to save their parents having to pay college tuition.

    culture includes the ease with which the niceties & nuances of the game are passed on from generation to generation in backyard/street/pickup games (not common in u.s. soccer, but abundant in basketball), AND in coaching at every level (seriously lacking in the u.s. in soccer, but again abundant in basketball).

    we're definitely not a soccer culture.
     
  9. First: you can practice it by bouncing against a wall and vary distance and position.
    Second: You only need one other person to practice it without a wall.
    So no, not difficult to do outside team practice.
     
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  10. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I guess you did not read my next sentence: "In the US we tend to not practice away from the regular practices in groups of two to four."

    Kids just have not been taught, in the US, that it is OK to have fun and practice in small groups. Hard to practice does not mean it cannot be done it just means that kids find it to be "work" and not "fun." If the kids here finally discover just how much fun it can be to get just a few kids together and play with a soccer ball first touch will be learned without the kids feeling like they are practicing.

    Practicing against a wall is "possible" but it is not fun so the kids that would tend to do it here are the very ones that need it the least.

    For the most part kids do not learn how to do things at practice, they learn by doing and screwing up a LOT and they are much more likely to learn new skills when the adults are not involved.
     
  11. MiLLeNNiuM

    MiLLeNNiuM Member+

    Aug 28, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would absolutely agree on the men's side.
    However, on the women's side, what other women's sport has higher attendance records?
    Women's basketball (WNBA)? Maybe.
     
  12. Let them look at youtube videos on practicing in the street that is fun to do.
     
  13. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    If we could get them to watch videos like that all they show is players having fun that already have the skill we want to develop.

    The best way, and the way I have seen work, is to just let the kids play with no adult intervention. Just get a group of two to four in an area that is safe from cars or other dangers and give them a soccer ball as their only toy. Then let them create their own games and simply have fun. We need to get the adults out of the earliest training.

    To quote a rather famous AAU exec at his retirement dinner: "The only problem with youth sports in this country is the adults."

    Structure is good for the adults at the earliest ages but it is not good for the kids. I REALLY hate the "organized" soccer programs for U8 and below. The only good such programs do is keep the adults off the streets. The kids to NOT benefit from organized sports until at least 9-10. The only benefit is that the adults are made to feel good.

    Just give them a ball and a safe place to play and the kids will make it work.
     
  14. That's why the Dutch FA has ruled that parents and coaches have to stay at least 25 meters from the pitch when our young kids have a "match".
    The point is to make them enthusiastic to try it themselves.
     
  15. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I have been thinking about this and if Japan's full side adds Endo and if the extra physicality does not throw her off her game then that one addition could jump their game a full level. Japan is already very dangerous to any team in the world with that one addition the could well jump from "dangerous" to "lethal."

    The other's you mention are also impact players but Endo's play makes everyone around her better.

    It is a huge and maybe unwarranted comparison but the last player I saw that young that impressed me as much is named "Marta" and I actually think in a few years Endo could be better over all. Marta was all Marta but she has always been hampered by her type of skill where a lot of times players around her watched her play because she always looked for her shot or move first and the pass second. Endo seems to balance those and players do not relax around her because, if they do, her passes could make them look silly for not being ready.

    If she is not "cap tied" to Japan by having played a full international with them I wonder how she would feel about immigration. ;):cool: I an very unlikely to travel much anymore and I would like to easily see her continued development.
     
  16. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Now if we could get the "refs" and other officials even farther away then we might have something.

    Also I think "matches" are not needed at the youngest ages.unless they are VERY small sided, no larger than 3v3. There is only one "toy" on the field and all the kids want to play with it.

    I think the best way to do that is to just let them do it. Using videos or demonstrations as motivational tool just does not work until the kids are at least 10 and the love of the game needs to be learned before then.

    I will end my say on this with a story, probably made up, that I heard years ago:
    A father enrolled his 8 year old daughter in an organized soccer program and she proved to be a star and could dribble and score several times a game and was always the leading scorer.
    But he noticed that each week she seemed to be sadder and sadder after the games until one week as soon as the game ended she ran to their car and just started crying uncontrollably.
    After much effort and hugs he finally calmed her down and asked her what was wrong.
    She said, "I want to be on the other team."
    He asked, "Why?"
    She said, "The uniforms."
    He said, "But honey you have a nice uniform for your team."
    She said, "Yes, but they get to wear a different one each week."

    We, adults, need to realize that what we find important or fun may not be what kids want or even notice.
     
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  17. jnielsen

    jnielsen Member+

    May 12, 2012
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    So, when's the final?
     
  18. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member+

    Jul 6, 2000
    even if it has the highest attendance, that doesn't spell soccer culture.

    first, because highest attendance in this case would be more amusing than meaningful, since the support for woso is very embarrassing.

    second, as has been pointed out before, (& we keep making this mistake), numbers do not necessarily a soccer culture make.
     
  19. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Regarding women's soccer, the US has the deepest culture in the world except possibly for Japan. Sure, Argentina has a great men's soccer culture, but women's? No, I talked to some Argentina men visiting Nike about it and they said women's soccer is barely a sport there. Sure, England has a great men's soccer culture, but women's? No, I talked to a friend who played professional women's soccer there and she said girls playing there were considered odd -- although recently, it looks like that's picking up, but it's not close to the US culture. France? China? Germany? Maybe the last two were tops for a couple of years, but a true culture requires staying power. I'd say Australia probably comes next after the US.

    This is a bit of a rant, but I get tired of posters extending men's soccer culture to the women's game. They're different games and cultures. Get used to it.
     
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  20. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    For records, you can cross out Italy from that list also. Men's soccer (actually "Football" :rolleyes:) culture is ingrained in Italy's everyday life to a level that probably few countries share (that's quite annoying, actually, both in general and especially when its ways transfer to other areas, as politics), but women's soccer suffers from one of the more misogynistic approaches I've seen in the world and until a few years ago girls playing soccer were actively made fun of, here (sometimes they still are! :x3:).
     
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  21. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Ok, although this kind of discussion is quite off-topic here on the US boards, I'll bite. Endo has been incredibly impactful in this U-20 WWC so far, but the only problem with her is that she's less experienced at the Senior level than the other young players I've mentioned.

    Fuka Nagano is around since the successful U-17 WWC 2014 campaign, already starred in another U-20 WWC in 2016 and now plays overseas in the club that's currently champion of South Korea, Incheon Hyunday Steel Red Angels. Riko Ueki is rostered by Nippon TV Beleza, that won the last three Nadeshiko League titles (this year they're strongly challanged by INAC Kobe Leonessa), and she gets playing time on a regular basis.
    Jun Endo, instead, still plays for a 2nd Division team, although an high profile one (JFA Academy Fukushima, that's the federation-fuelled team specialized in developing young players), so she somehow still has to show that's she's ready for the next level, while some of her team-mates already made that "jump".

    For sure she made a case for herself in this tournament and it's now hard to overlook her.
    I am not sure if you followed my reports from Concarneau, earlier during U-20 WWC (I had made them mostly on Nadeshiko Japan thread, but I had put a link to them on U-20 WWC official thread on international boards), but when I was at the stadium watching USA-Japan, I had the luck of meeting Ms Asako Takakura, head coach of the Senior Team, who was there for "scouting" duties. After asking her for an autograph, I tried to know from her if she felt like there were any U-20 players that were ready for Senior World Cup next year and she laughed as she answered: "Maybe... I am here to check!". Later that night, after the game, I saw her hugging Nagano and chatting with her for some minutes, but I am sure she's not the only player she's laid her eyes on. ;)
     
  22. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    we learn how to dribble too, but in the good ole USA, you spend mucho dinero for an school to teach it to kids


    if it's only woso;
    famed French player, Amandine Henry, took a huge pay cut last year to play for the Portland Thorns over her usual club,6 time Euro/CL league champs, Lyon, because in her own words "the soccer culture is so much better"

    personally I think soccer culture over here is most personified in youth tourney's. This is the biggest soccer park in my region(it's in Baton Rouge)there's probably bigger ones around the country. It's one circular drive is over to 2 miles long, on a busy weekend, it takes over half an hour to get out of the parking lot


    now find basketball courts that long, lol
     
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  23. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    The opinions she held in the early stages may have dramatically changed over the run of the tournament.

    Of course she may feel that Endo is just too young but I really do not think so.

    If Endo has an even average performance in the final I do not think there is anyone else that can have more than a mention for the best player in the tournament. She is as close to a lock for that award as I have seen.

    Did you not notice my attempt to put this on topic?
     
  24. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Eh, eh, it's not impossible that Endo decides to try the US adventure (after all, we currently have for instance a player in University of Kentuky, Yuura Kurosaki, who just scored twice in the first two matches of the college season). I'll let you know if she does. ;)
     
  25. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member+

    Jul 6, 2000
    portland is certainly not the country. the portland argument dies once you take the realistic full view, since it's known to be an outlier that doesn't have the competition from too many big sports that other large population centers have.

    plus, being better than france where they still largely look askance on women who play the game doesn't give you soccer culture.

    yes.

    that familiar place where billions of girls gather to kick, run, and out-physical other girls in front of college coaches who will save their parents the cost of a college degree...all the while barely paying attention to the skills, nuances, and tactics of the game that soccer cultures pass on so easily.

    I see we're back to the big numbers and big size as culture argument again.

    it's not.
     

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