Hi All Based in UK but this applies to all countries I suppose. Going to U13s next season and I am looking at a squad of 15/16 considering we are going 11 aside. I will hence take 14 to a game as it allows me to give players alot of time on pitch. All players will be rotated (minus keeper unless I have a backup) to allow equal playing time over the season. But I am starting to get 1, if not 2 players that want to also play in another team on a Saturday, when my league games are on a Sunday. FA/league allow this, just not on same day. Problem I have, is if x player players on a Saturday and picked for Sunday, he wont be 100% fit due to recovery time. Plus if he takes a knock and goes not tell me, I definitely wont have a fit player, let alone allow him to play. That to me is not fair on the player rotated who will be fit etc. I then have to think, weekend they also have to do their school homework so when are they going to have time to do that. Of course, if I base it on this season, its rare I have a full squad with injuries, unavailability etc but does happen, certainly has in last 7 games. Personally, I am in a current mindset to not allow it. Has anyone else been in this situ or care to share any thoughts? Thanks in advance.
At U13 for any level I don't like selecting players and then not letting them play. I don't like the idea of U13 players playing entire games in the goal. I don't like the idea of making fitness important to U13 matches. I know that a lot of coaches don't want players playing for other coaches, but then playing on multiple youth teams and for multiple coaches was a characteristic of our national team players in the past. What puzzles me is that you aren't using all your players but you don't want them playing for anyone else either.
I would tell your players you don't like them playing for another team on Saturdays. They will also miss your practices when the other coach pressures them to come to their practices instead of to yours. If you have 3 players who still want to play on the other team. Then stop worrying about equal playing time for those players. Worry about the others on your team.
I have coach U14 and have three girls that guest play with the boys U14 team. They play multiple games in one day almost weekly. These players do it in tournaments all of the time. They have a very short recovery time at this age. To me it's about their time on the ball and getting the experience. I only have 15 on my team and all get plenty of playing time even when I bring 1 or 2 guest players from the U13 team. As for injuries, well that's part of the game and you can't bubble wrap them on their own time so why would you worry about that when they play for another team? You should have a contingency plan for any player getting injured and be well prepared. IMO, don't hold it against a child for wanting to play more soccer.
Just want to clarify a few things. The league we are in is very competitive, so the players need to be fit. If they are injured, unfit - it does show. I have also had games this season ( playing 9 aside, with a squad of 12) I have had to cross register a few players from my second team to cover me off due to injured/non availables. Next season, I wont have this luxury as second team is going to be playing in same league and we cannot easily cross register. So having a larger squad, playing in same amount of games with a min of 40>45 mins per game ( 35min halves) is needed. But I am well aware changing vast number of players during game caused instability hence why taking 14 players to a 11 aside game works. Where coaches have different opinions on playing time, I think on this forum we all believe in playing time over points, its not about us, its about the players. Now, back to the question, I understand players at this level recover quickly, but not when they are playing games with school aswell and in this case, with another team. Not only does it double the risk of injuries, as the coach that plays on the following day it puts me more at risk. With harder grounds etc ( most teams train in winter on astro turf) I have seen alot of injuries this season. Ref the comment ref tournaments, playing more games in a single day is always better than playing over 2 days. If I had a squad of say 15, I would probably take the risk as rare that I will have everyone available on a Sunday. Not sure I dare take that risk at this time with that number due to what I have seen with other teams who tried it. Over a 32 week season just finishing, I played 29 games - 22 in league, another 7 in cup (reached a final of one).... Thanks for all the replies though, its one of the reasons why I post here.
To be sure we are thinking about fitness the same way, I use "fitness" in this context to mean "match fitness:" the length of time that a player can play before fatigue reduces effectiveness. With liberal substitution policies and a large roster players only need to be fit enough to play about 1/4 of the total match minutes at a time. The need for greater fitness is driven by roster size not the "competitiveness" (not sure what you meant by that--speed of play?) of the league. How you organize your team also creates fitness demands on certain players. Primarily this is a function of the length of runs your system requires. For instance the 442 and 352 creates huge fitness demands on the wing halfs and lessens the demand on on the central players. (Sadly this encourages wing halfs to be selected for fitness rather than crossing ability.) Bunkering and then counterattacking directly instead of defending higher up the field also demands more fitness.This, however, is also a factor within your control.
Ask yourself- why do these kids feel they need to play for another team? There may be a few answers: 1. They just love playing and want to play more. 2. The other team is "more fun" than your team (less pressure) and it gives them a chance to play more freely. 3. The other team is more competitive than your team (opposite of #2 above). Your team is fun, but they need more of a challenge. 4. The other team lets them play different positions. 5. Their parents are crazy and think tha more is more without thinking about the reasons for playing fewer, but more meaningful games. 6. Their friends are on the other team (see #2 above).
If it's in your control, don't let them play Saturdays and Sundays. It's the developmentally correct thing to do for the reasons you mentioned—recovery time. Yeah, no one observes proper rest periods in the US either but doesn't mean we shouldn't enforce it when we can. At that age, you still want a high training to match ratio—like 3 to 1.
The development issue pertains to players playing a full match on both days. There is no theoretical concern about playing a half match each day, which is a common situation in youth matches.
It happens in tournaments, a couple times a season. No problem, right? Every weekend, that's a bit much! I like to carry more players than some. Allows for missing players on game day, encourages the girls to play at a high work rate knowing when the raise their hand they'll get subbed, refreshed and put back in.... In theory anyway...
I disagree with the idea that if not done every weekend, tournaments are not a development problem. The associated fatigue increases the risk of injury and degrades the training value of matches.
Around these parts, 2 tournaments a season is SOP. I agree with your fatigue assessment. That plays a part in my preference for having more players on the team than I typically see, as well as my other reasons. Mind you we're an 05 team. The girls like playing in them because"they're fun". I have lots to learn on everything soccer, it is interesting reflecting on "giving players a break", with growing up thru the summer and running around from Dawn to dusk while also playing sports.
yup tournaments are hypocritical. I don't do it for the money, but they don't pay me enough to go to tournaments. As you mentioned, tournaments are poor development venues. I once switched to a local tourney and parents were unhappy (when aren't they unhappy?) because it was less prestigious and they didn't get to take a little vacation. Really? You enjoy going to some great lakes city with shitty weather to sleep in some hotel room with two adults and two kids after driving 4 hours? To see your kids struggle against regional competition when we could've stayed local and slept in our beds and played an appropriate level of competition? There's always some club/team sandbagging the middle to lower divisions so they can score a trophy. On a side note, I was that sandbagger last June. Not on purpose. We did well in tournaments the year before two first places, one second in the middle tiers. So we got bumped up and we struggled in the top flights. So coming into last spring our tournament "rating" was low but we were better than most midtier teams but were placed with them. We crushed and it was embarrassing to win that way. Opposing coach in the final complained and I just said to take it up with the tournament director—which was the truth.
IDK, tournaments are a good way to test yourself against new competition. Sure there's always a team that shouldn't be in the lower divisions but that's half the fun... going against harder competition. Ive noticed that my teams are more focused going back to league play after competing in a tournament. Sure it's a pain in the butt traveling but its fantastic for team chemistry. I haven't met a single player who would rather not do tournaments.
Maybe not at the younger ages, but I think there is great value in periodically "playing tired". Granted, it should be monitored so as to not unnecessarily increase the risk of injury, but aside from that playing in a modestly degraded state is a tremendous learning opportunity. First, it shows the kids that they can do things they didn't think they could and that they can push themselves harder than they think they can. Some kids you'll have to rein in so they don't hurt themselves, but many of them will let the tired beat them rather than using their brain to find a solution. The determination they develop in this state will serve them well in every part of their lives as they get older. Second, it forces kids who have motors that last a whole game to learn to rest off the ball. The only way they internalize how to rest is having to actually do it. Third, it makes them reassess their fundamentals in a new way that they won't be exposed to when in top condition and, if they're good enough, re-learn the use of basics in lieu of more advanced techniques. It's easy for kids to get lost in more advanced techniques even when well-coached; when they don't have the energy for the advanced technique they rediscover the ability to do the basics in areas they'd forgotten they apply. I'm sure this isn't the most popular opinion around, but it's one I've developed both as a player and in years of watching my and other kids play. Learning to play well when tired is a powerful tool, but one that has to be wielded with care.
Peter, it depends on what you mean by tired and what the training objective is. For instance technical training and speed training should not be performed when players are tired. I was talking about exhaustion and the associated risk of injury and lack of training value. For fit adults there is a energy wall at about 120 minutes where energy stores are depleted. After that all activity becomes aerobic and reduces muscles. Adult soccer matches only last 120 minutes with overtime. With 3 days of recovery, energy levels are restored to 100% of capacity. You should never push players past the anaerobic-energy exhaustion point. There is nothing to be gained. If by tired you mean that the players are still in oxygen debt when beginning the next movement, that is how you make training anaerobic rather than aerobic.
Of course they would. 99% of players don't know what's best for their development. Testing yourself against new competition is a pointless argument for the vast majority of teams. Unless you dominate everyone in your local area then traveling 4 hours is dumb. Unless, geographically you have no competition.
Disagree about "playing tired". They need to learn to play at max effort every time. Best argument to make is that a youth squad will Sub equally and so players only play half a game. So two games is still just one game but there's the second day and most teams don't play equally.
I see your point on the injury front, but I firmly believe that the game is the best teacher. Just let them play. Obviously, if they play for a club team that may be a direct opponent at some time then I would have my reservations
Game is the best teacher... yes? Maybe? Best way to learn carpentry is to build something? Yes, eventually you'll build a bunch of stuff. But can a good mentor or teacher make the learning process quicker because you don't have to learn techniques that were developed years/centuries ago? It's self serving statement, but a good coach can accelerate learning by manipulating the elements of the game. Time, playing area, numbers, restrictions etc. coach can provide critical guidance at just the right time.
I agree with elessar78. When I coached U-10Gs, I followed the conventions. Most other teams had parent coaches that divided the team in 2 and just had them scrimmage at the twice per week practice sessions. After just six weeks of practicing, the other teams made no progress while my players were clearly improving beyond the other teams. If the "game is the best teacher," the other teams would have progressed too. It made me a firm believer in the effectiveness of the classic coaching methods.
To add, not pile on, it's a quote that's used out of context. It's n attack against the use of non-game like drills. Like wind sprints, maybe things like Coerver-style footskills drills.
A lot of teams have two practices and they start play in their league. Or they play in a tirnament at the beginning of the season that is crazy nuts. If you never saw the players play before. The fastest way to see who can do what is divide them up and have them play against each other. Oh I always had my teams playing 15 or 20 minutes against each other at the end of practice. With the idea to use what they just learned in practice or use what they learned in thempractice before. A lot of adult try outs when the players have no player resumes and you have over 100 players trying out. When you only have maybe 5 openings left on the team that these guys are trying out for. Is to ask them what is their best position and divide them up playing two games. A half at their best positions and just let them play. While they are playing you take notes on who did what well. Plus make individual coaching points to see if they are actually listening to what you tell them and if they actually take that advice and use it.