Trump Presidency Tweets Too

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by crazypete13, Mar 2, 2018.

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  1. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There is a difference between "respecting" another person's point of view and allowing them to spout absolute garbage. I'm all for Fundies, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Taoists and even supply-side economists to have their views on things. I don't share those opinions, but it's OK as long as they also respect others' rights to differ.

    I won't "respect the opinions of" someone who promotes racism, homophobia, as legit schools of thought. They are not. By and large, they are lazy thinkers and can't go very far with a legitimate challenge.

    The idea of relying on a text that was written thousands of years ago, by many different authors over a long period of time, in several different languages that has been edited and often poorly translated, as the ultimate authority is downright laughable. Sure, if you want to take the general gist of the Bible as how to live your live (10 Commandments, Beatitudes, etc.) that's fine, but a literal interpretation is ridiculous. Does anyone really think that someone living in the Ancient World, when people were lucky to live past 50 actually lived to be 175 years old like Moses or Abraham allegedly did? Sure, they might have lived a lot longer than the average person, but let's not get carried away here...

    I remember someone posted a while back about how the Bible does not actually condemn homosexuality, because the ancient Greek word they used was actually a different term. If they were referring to homosexuality, there was a different word they would have used, but that never stopped the closeted foot-tapping Republicans from taking the cabana boy back to the log-cabin.
     
  2. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Olympia
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Because I get them to discover it themselves, just as I did. When you discover it yourself, you tend to be more open to it.


    Of course the Bible justifies it - the Bible is entirely based on it because those ancient cultures were patriarchal. You cannot remove the texts from the culture they were written in. That's my entire point.

    The patriarchy shows up in interesting but very clear ways. For example, Leviticus 18 gives a long list of people you cannot have sex with. Included in the list is your uncle's wife on the paternal side. Not on the list is your uncle's wife on the maternal side. With my students I have them figure out why that is. The answer, of course, goes to the heart of patrilineal kinship system found in patriarchal societies, which was practiced in ancient Israel but is not practiced in Western society. And that's just one example of many.

    Which leads to a question for them. Does that mean, if we take the Bible as "Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth" (a popular evangelical notion), that God ordained patrilineal systems and so our bilateral kinship system is going against God's wishes? This one question and answer will not change their minds at all, but it is one brick removed from the wall. It's these types of things that get my students thinking about the role culture played in the Bible. And culture is everything. If culture played a significant role in the Bible, which it did, then the door is opened to understanding it's context and if and how it can be applied to modern society.

    Liberal Christians recognized this - you'll also note that liberal Christians are not the problem when it comes to destroying democracy, imposing unjust laws on women, hatred of gays, etc.
     
  3. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Olympia
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    The Bible is used to defend their views. Take away their defense and expose those emotional beliefs for what they really are. At the moment we cannot get to the core because they use the cloak of Scripture to protect themselves. And because it is taboo to go after someone's religious texts in society, that cloak works.
     
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  4. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    Those emotional beliefs are who they really are. There is no magical Bible studying that is going to change their life views.
     
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  5. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Olympia
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Yes, people do believe that.

    There actually was no term in ancient Greek for homosexuality. Their concept of it was different than ours. The Greek word Paul uses twice in the New Testament that is today translated by some as "homosexual" is cloudy at best in what he meant, given it is not found in any text prior to him as a single word and he only includes it in a list. It probably is a reference to Leviticus 18:22, if I remember correctly, because it uses two words translated into Greek that are side by side in the Septuagint (Greek translation of the Hebrew). If so, then it does reference an aspect of male sexuality, and possibly male homosexuality, but it clearly does not include lesbianism. As such, there is no way it would be a condemnation of all homosexuals. And that's just the starting point on the critique of Paul's word choice and the modern translation. The first English Bible to translate those occurrences into "homosexuals" was the RSV in the late 1940s. No English translation (or other language translation I know of), translated it as such before then, nor did the King James Version translate it as "sodomites", which would have been the closest term at that time.
     
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  6. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Olympia
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    I know enough former evangelicals who believed those things to know you are not correct.
     
  7. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    There are exceptions but that is why total changes in world views are interesting, they are so rare. Also much change in people as seen on the surface, as you dig down you find that it is not as significant as you think.
     
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  8. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    They're even selective in their quoting of Leviticus. They're down with that book when it comes to homosexuality.

    But not immigration:

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+19:33-34&version=NIV

    333 “‘When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. 34 The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as you love yourself. For you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God. ​

     
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  9. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    This has come up before, so allow me to chime in with people I know with PhD's in humanities fields that are just as limited once you drift outside their areas of specialization. Dangerously limited, because they're ignorant of their ignorance.
     
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  10. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, it is used to defend, but some (many?) have the beliefs not because of The Bible, but outside The Bible. It is as emotional as people being told their lives will be better if we lower taxes and they get more money in their paycheck. The key is not going after The Bible, but going after the core beliefs.
     
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  11. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is amazing.



    This is pathetic.

     
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  12. Kazuma

    Kazuma Member+

    Chelsea
    Jul 30, 2007
    Detroit
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Oh, most definitely, granted my experience with this sort of thing is always engineers. I've had a few try to tell me how my profession (journalism and advertising works) and it's just nope.

    Greatest irony is I'm a computer science student at the moment and have had a much easier time with those classes so far than I have with my humanities classes. If I ever read Chaucer again it'll be too soon.
     
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  13. Q*bert Jones III

    Q*bert Jones III The People's Poet

    Feb 12, 2005
    Woodstock, NY
    Club:
    DC United
    This is not normal.
     
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  14. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Moare Weenneeeing!!!!

    1131201050197684225 is not a valid tweet id



    Shocker, I'm telling you..



    This is not going to end well:

     
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  15. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Olympia
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Ok then, what are the core beliefs and how do you go after them without addressing the Bible?

    And by the way, while you do that, they're going after your children. There's a reason why the wanted an evangelical as Secretary of Education and why they've had a concerted effort at getting evangelicals on school boards since the 80s and 90s.
     
  16. Q*bert Jones III

    Q*bert Jones III The People's Poet

    Feb 12, 2005
    Woodstock, NY
    Club:
    DC United
    Chaucer's easy. You just have to read it out loud.
     
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  17. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
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  18. Ismitje

    Ismitje Super Moderator

    Dec 30, 2000
    The Palouse
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To me, it isn't so much that Ben Carson didn't know much about the housing sector when appointed by Trump in early 2017 - that's par for the course in this administration - its that he continues not to understand key aspects of the job more than two years later. That's mind-boggling. You can study key concepts - anyone can - and while you might not understand context and nuance, the concept should long since have become part of your knowledge set. That bespeaks not a lack of intelligence but, in another hallmark of the administration, laziness and disinterest.
     
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  19. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Holy Fvck!!!




    Is he that transparent?

     
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  20. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Olympia
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Agreed. It makes you wonder what, if anything, he actually does in his job beside eating Oreos.
     
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  21. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    These talks broke down. Every organism that respired O2 (and some that don't) knew this was going to eventually happen.
     
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  22. Hayaka

    Hayaka Member+

    Jun 21, 2009
    San Francisco North Bay, Bel Marin Keys
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    Actually he doesn't even have that.

    "Using information from a close friend of Ben Carson, the nominee for housing secretary, an earlier version of this article misstated that Mr. Carson spent part of his childhood in public housing. The friend, Armstrong Williams, said Monday that Mr. Carson had never lived in government housing.”

    https://thehill.com/homenews/308908...n-stories-claiming-carson-lived-in-government
     
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  23. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Can't remember the exact joke (keep in mind my dad was an engineer, so I got some of his "humor"), but it was something comparing engineers/computer scientists with those in social services. Something like 11 options. Engineers with see it in binary, the rest of us will see it in Arabic numerals.
     
  24. Kazuma

    Kazuma Member+

    Chelsea
    Jul 30, 2007
    Detroit
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
     
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  25. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is just another sign of having power and not knowing how to use it.
     

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