Top preformances in major competitions (Not the World Cup)

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by Tom Stevens, Apr 30, 2014.

  1. Tom Stevens

    Tom Stevens Member+

    Dec 12, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I am really enjoying the discussion in the world cup thread about the top performances ever in a single competition. I would love to start off the same type of discussion for some other major club and international competitions. It would also be great to try to compile any sources we have.

    South American Championships - I tried to stick with tournaments that were well attended by all nations for this preliminary list of top performers. Also a quick question off the top, were the Copa America best player awards given retroactively? If so for how long? A am assuming the more recent tournaments have awarded the best player at the time of the tournament and the older awards are retroactive (Same situation as world cup).

    Also this thread

    https://www.bigsoccer.com/community/threads/best-south-american-players-50s-60s.1383569/page-3

    Has some excellent newspaper ratings for some of the well attended important Copa Americas from the 50s/60s posted by msioux.

    To start out I will go through by year and try to give an idea of how well the tournament was attended and who some candidates are (there is not squad info for a lot of the old tournaments by you can get a decent idea by looking at the goalscorers of what type of team they brought).

    1916: Hosts: Argentina. Participants (4): Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Uruguay. Based on the famous goal scorers for the top sides participating Brazil (Friedenreich), Argentina (Ohaco), and Uruguay (Piendibene) I wold say that the big three had close to top squads. Champion Uruguay. Official top player Isabelino Gradin (All action forward/midfielder top scorer 3 goals). Other possible top performers: José Piendibene (Playmaking forward, some have dubbed him the first false 9, scored twice).

    1917: Hosts: Uruguay. Participants (4): Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Uruguay. Once again based on famous goal scorers the big three had close to top squads: Brazil (Neco, Amilicar), Argentina (Ohaco), and Uruguay (Gradin, Scarone). Champion Uruguay. Official top player Hector Scarone (Legendary Playmaker). Other possible top performers: Angel Romano (Famous lll purpose utility player and forward, top scorer 4 goals).

    1919: Hosts: Brazil. Participants (4): Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Uruguay. Once again based on famous goal scorers Brazil and Uruguay had top squads: Brazil (Friedenreich, Neco, Amilicar), Uruguay (Romano, Scarone). Unsure on Argentina as their goals scorers were Edwin Clarcke and Carlos Izaguirre. Don't know if they were top players or not. Champion Brazil. Official top player Arthur Friedenreich (Legendary striker and joint top scorer 4 goals). Other possible top performers: Neco (Joint top scorer with Friedenreich 4 goals, famous forward for Cornithians), also Amilcar Barbuy the top midfielder of the time (1 goal).

    1920: Hosts: Chile. Participants (4): Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Uruguay. Based on famous goal scorers Argentina and Uruguay had top squads: Argentina (Libonatti), Uruguay (Romano, Piendibene). Unsure on
    Brazil who came in a solid second place but I do not recognize their goalscorers: Machado, Zezé, Candiota. Champion Uruguay. Official top player José Piendibene. Other possible top performers: Angel Romano and José Pérez (Joint top scorer 3 goals).

    1921: Hosts: Argentina. Participants (5): Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Paraguay, Uruguay. Based on famous goal scorers Argentina and Uruguay had top squads: Argentina (Libonatti), Uruguay (Romano, Piendibene). Unsure on Brazil, possibly a B squad as they only scored 1 goal all tourney and it was from Ismael Alvariza.Champion Argentina. Official top player Américo Tesoriere (Argentina Goalkeeper). Other possible top performers: Julio Libonatti (Famous striker who had excellent club and international careers in Argentina and Italy): top scorer 3 goals.

    1922: Hosts: Brazil. Participants (5): Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Paraguay, Uruguay. Brazil had a top team featuring Neco and Almilcar, but no famous names among the Uruguay or Argentina goalscorers so maybe B teams? Paraguay finishing second probably increases the odds that Argentina and Uruguay took B teams. Champion Brazil. Official top player Agostinho Fortes Filho (Brazilian midfielder from Fluminense).
    Other possible top performers: Neco and Amilcar Barbuy, the famous Conithians duo both scored twice for Brazil.

    1923: Hosts: Uruguay. Participants (5): Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Paraguay, Uruguay. Uruguay had the only sure A team here. Famous names missing for Brazil and Argentina. Champion Uruguay. Official top player José Nasazzi (Famous captain and defender of the great Uruguay teams of the time). Other possible top performers: The famous forward line that dominated in South American and International football was now fully present with Pedro Petrone ( joint top scorer 3 goals), Pedro Cea (1 goal), and Hector Scarone (1 goal)
    1924: Hosts: Uruguay. Participants (4): Argentina, Chile, Paraguay, Uruguay. Uruguay had little competition here with Brazil absent and Argentina having a team of unknown quality (no big names on the score sheet). Champion Uruguay. Official top player Pedro Petrone (top scorer 4 goals). Other possible top performers: Angel Romano (2 goals) and Pedro Cea (1 goal).

    1925: Hosts: Argentina. Participants (3): Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay. Argentina (Seoane, and Tarasconi) and Brazil (Friedenreich and Nilo) both brought strong teams, but without Uruguay it was a two horse race. Champion Argentina. Official top player Manuel Seoane (The legendary Argentina striker was top scorer with 6 goals in 4 games including a hat trick vs Brazil). Other possible top performers: none, Seoane was surely the man for this tournament.

    1926: Hosts: Chile. Participants (5): Argentina, Bolivia, Chile, Paraguay, Uruguay. Argentina (Sosa, Cherro, and Tarasconi) and Uruguay (Castro and Scarone) both brought strong teams but maybe not their best? Chile was also very competitive, making this the first time someone outside the big three was a contender. Champion Uruguay. Official top player José Leandro Andrade (The legendary midfielder known as 'The Black Marvel' makes an appearance between his two dominating Olympic performances). Other possible top performers: Hector Scarone and Héctor Castro both scored 6 for the winners. David Arellano scored 7 times as top scorer for Chile.

    1927: Hosts: Peru. Participants (4): Argentina, Bolivia, Peru, Uruguay. Argentina (Carricaberry, Ferreira, and Seoane) and Uruguay (Castro, Petrone, and Scarone) both brought their top teams. Complete two horse race as Bolivia and Peru were miles behind. Champion Argentina. Official top player Manuel Seoane (First player to win the award twice, scored 2 goals in a blowout of Bolivia). Other possible top performers: A lot of possibilities with Manuel Ferreira (famous Argentina striker 2 goals), Alfredo Carricaberry (Famous San Lorenzo striker scored 3 and was joint top scorer), and Hector Scarone (joint top scorer with two of his three goals vs Argentina in a losing effort).

    1929: Hosts: Argentina. Participants (4): Argentina, Paraguay, Peru, Uruguay. Argentina (Ferreira, Evaristo, Cherro, and Peucelle) had a top team and although Uruguay preformed poorly and did not get any goals from their top forwards Andrade did get on the goals sheet showing they brought some top players. Paraguay was strong coming in second with Peru very poor. Champion Argentina. Official top player Manuel Ferreira (Scored 3 goals for the winners). Other possible top performers: Adolfo Zumelzú (top half back for Argentina who scored twice and was part of a defense that only allowed 1 goal). Top scorer of the tournament was Aurelio Benítez (5 goals), one of Paraguay's all time great who lead the team to a second place finish.

    1935: Hosts: Peru. Participants (4): Argentina, Chile, Peru, Uruguay. Two horse race with Argentina (Masantonio) and Uruguay (Castro and Ciocca) having strong teams. Champion Uruguay. Official top player José Nasazzi (joins Seoane as the only other two time winner to this point, led the defense that only allowed 1 goal). Other possible top performers: Anibal Ciocca (3 goals) and Héctor Castro (2 goals) were two of Nacional's all time great forwards and both scored in the decisive match vs Argentina.

    1937: Hosts: Argentina. Participants (6): Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Paraguay, Peru, Uruguay. The first tournament where nearly all nations from South America attend and bring strong teams: Brazil (Luisinho, Patesko, Carvalho Leite, Niginho), Argentina (Zozaya, Varallo, De la Mata), Uruguay (Varela). Champion Argentina. Official top player Vicente de la Mata (The great Independiente forward scored twice in extra time to defeat of Brazil in the final championship deciding match). Other possible top performers: Alberto Zozaya (scored 5 times for Argentina) and Luisinho scored 4 for Brazil as part of the top scoring team in the tournament.

    1939: Hosts: Peru. Participants (5): Chile, Ecuador, Paraguay, Peru, Uruguay. The first participation for Ecuador who struggled, but all the other teams were competitive as Peru, Paraguay and Chile as all reasonably strong teams now, although the tournament suffers greatly from the lack of Brazil and Argentina. Champion Peru. The first team outside the big three to win a Copa America and would remain the only team until 1953. Official top player Teodoro Fernández (One of Peru's greatest and most important player, the striker was the top scorer of the tournament scoring 7 times in 4 games). Other possible top performers: Jorge Alcalde (The Peruvian inside forward scored 5 time including once in the decisive match vs Uruagay) and Severino Varela the great Uruguayan forward who was a star with Penoral and Boca Jr scored 5 times for Uruguay.

    1941: Hosts: Chile. Participants (5): Argentina, Chile, Ecuador, Peru, Uruguay. Argentina and Uruguay were the two best teams by a large margin, both brought strong squads: Argentina (Moreno, Marvezzi, Sastre) and Uruguay (Varela, Porta, Gambetta). Brazil is noticeably absent. Champion Argentina. Official top player Sergio Livingstone (Chile's goalkeeper) is a seemingly strange choice as his team came in a respectable third allowing 3 goals in four games. Other possible top performers: José Manuel Moreno (The legendary forward scored 3 times, twice in a critical 2-1 win over a strong Peru team who were defending champions) and Antonio Sastre (Another Argentine legend makes an appearance scoring the decisive 1-0 winner vs their major rivals Uruguay) both seem to have good claims. Argentina's top scorer and tournament top scorer was Juan Marvezzi, but I do not consider him strongly as all 5 of his goals were vs lowly Ecuador.

    1942: Hosts: Uruguay. Participants (7): Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Ecuador, Paraguay, Peru, Uruguay. For the second time we have a fully attended tournament with the all top teams bringing their top players: Argentina (Masanronio, Moreno, Pedernera), Brazil (Pirillo, Zizinho, Tim), Uruguay (O. Varela, S. Varela, Porta, Gambetta). Champion Uruguay. Official top player Obdulio Varela: The great center half who would later captain Uruguay to world cup glory led Uruguay to a very impressive victory in 1942, going 6-0 with a 21 goals scored and only 2 conceded in a stacked field, beating Brazil and Argentina 1-0. Other possible top performers: Severino Varela was Uruguay's joint top scorer with Roberto Porta, both scoring 5 times. Varela also scored the winner vs Brazil. José Manuel Moreno and Herminio Masantonio were the tournaments joint top scorers, both scoring 7 times, Moreno netting a critical brace in a 3-1 win vs Peru and Masantonio scoring the winner vs Brazil.

    1945: Hosts: Chile. Participants (7): Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Uruguay. Another tournament where the top 3 all brought full strength sides: Argentina (N. Mendez, Martino, Pontoni, De le Mata, Loustau) Brazil (Ademir, Heleno, Jair, Zizinho), Uruguay (O. Varela, A. Garcia, Porta) as well as Chile bring a competitive team, although Bolivia, Colombia, and Ecuador were cannon fodder. Champion Argentina. Official top player Domingos da Guia: The legendary Brazilian defender led a stout defense that only allowed 5 goals in 6 games, but this is a somewhat pzzling selection when you look at the alternatives. Other possible top performers: my choice for top player would be Norberto Méndez, the great Argentine inside forward was the tournaments co-top scorer with 6 goals, including a legendary hat trick in their decisive 3-1 victory over rivals Brazil. Rinaldo Martino: The versatile Argentine forward scored 5 times including the 1-0 winner vs Uruguay. Heleno de Freitas was still Brazil's top striker at this point, shunning Ademir out wide. He was to co-top scorer of the tournament with 6 including Brazil's most critical goals, the winner in the 1-0 victory over Chile and brace in the 3-0 win over Uruguay.

    1946: Hosts: Chile. Participants (6): Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Paraguay, Uruguay. Another strong tournament where the top 3 all brought full strength sides: Argentina (Labruna, N. Mendez, Pedernera, Loustau, Martino, De le Mata) Brazil (Heleno, Jair, Zizinho), Uruguay (Medina, Schiaffino) as well as Chile and Paraguay bringing a competitive teams, only Bolivia was cannon fodder. Champion Argentina. Official top player Adolfo Pedernera: The great deep lying center forward and playmaker scored two goals both in important close wins vs Uruguay and Chile. Was the playmaker of the offense that scored a tournament best 17 goals in 5 games. Other possible top performers: Norberto Méndez again played a huge role scoring 5 times including a brace in the 2-0 win over Brazil in the final tournament deciding game.

    1947: Hosts: Ecuador. Participants (8): Argentina, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Peru, Uruguay. Argentina were the clear favorites here with a very strong team (Di Stefano, N. Mendez, Boye, Lousta, Pontoni, Moreno) in the absence of Brazil. Uruguay lacked some of its top stars but were solid along with Paraguay, Chile, and Peru. Ecuador, Bolivia, and Colombia were poor.Champion Argentina: they did not disappoint going 6-1-0 and scoring 28 goals. Official top player José Manuel Moreno: he returned from his sabbatical in Mexico to River Plate and Argentina, he now was more playmaker than striker, scoring 3 times. Other possible top performers: Norberto Méndez and Alfredo di Stéfano both scored 6 goals and Félix Loustau scored an impressive 4 from the wing.

    1949: Hosts: Brazil. Participants (8): Brazil, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Peru, Uruguay. As with the previous edition there was one clear favorite with Brazil having a very strong team (Ademir, Jair, Tesourinha, Zizinho, Alvim) in the absence of three time defending champion Argentina. Uruguay had a poor squad along with Paraguay being the only threat to Brazil. Champion Brazil: they did not disappoint going 6-0-1 and scoring and amazing 39 goals. Official top player Ademir: one of Brazil's many potent offensive weapons, he scored a hat trick in the decisive final playoff vs Paraguay, scoring 7 in total. Other possible top performers: Jair da Rosa Pinto: the attacking midfielder was the tournaments top scorer with 9 goals, including 2 in the final vs Paraguay. Zizinho: Scored 5 goals himself while being the key playmaker behind Brazil's offensive explosion. Dionisio Arce and Jorge Duilio Benitez were Paraguay's impressive attacking dou that both scored 7 goals, they both scored 1 in Paraguay's 2-0 win over Brazil to force the decisive final playoff which they lost after finishing even on points.

    1953: Hosts: Peru. Participants (7): Brazil, Bolivia, Chile, Ecuador, Paraguay, Peru, Uruguay. Brazil looked to have the strongest squad again (Julinho, Baltazar, Pinga, Ademir, Zizinho, Nilton Santos) with Argentina absent and Uruguay taking a B squad. Champion Paraguay: they would have their revenge from 1949, beating Brazil in the decisive playoff this time, after once again finishing tied on points. Official top player Heriberto Herrera: The defender who played for Atletico Madrid led a strong defense for Paraguay. Other possible top performers: The attacking duo of Ángel Berni and Rubén Fernández both scored 4 goals for Paraguay. Atilio López added 3 goals, including one in both victories over Brazil.

    1955: Hosts: Chile. Participants (6): Argentina, Chile, Ecuador, Paraguay, Peru, Uruguay. Argentina brought a strong squad (Micheli, Borello, Labruna, Grillo), as did Uruguay (Miguez, Abbadie, Borges) for the first time in a number of tournaments. Chile (Hormazabal, Munoz) and Peru (Sanchez, Terry) had both developed strong squads as well. Champion Argentina. Official top player Enrique Hormazabal: the great Chilean inside forward scored 6 goals leading his team to a 2nd place finish. Other possible top performers: Rodolfo Micheli: was the tournaments top scorer with 8 goals for the champions, including the winner in the 1-0 final victory over Chile. Brazil's great winger Julinho was the highest rated player of the tournament (msioux link) and scored an impressive 5 goals from the wing.

    1956: Hosts: Chile. Participants (6): Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Paraguay, Peru, Uruguay. The six strongest teams in South America attended, with only Brazil not bringing an A level squad (although there were still strong players in the team). Champion Uruguay. Official top player Óscar Miguez: the Uruguayan forward scored 3 goals, one each in critical wins vs Paraguay, Peru, and Chile (Highest rated player according to msioux link). Other possible top performers: Víctor Rodríguez Andrade was the second highest rated player of the tournament and keyed Uruguay's defense that only allowed 3 goals. The Chilean attack of was the best in the tournament scoring 11 goals and Leonel Sánchez (2 goals) and Enrique Hormazabal (4 goals and top scorer) were highly rated.

    1957: Hosts: Chile. Participants (7): Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Peru, Uruguay. All the top sides brought their A teams. Champion Argentina:It was an epic victory over the team that wold win the world cup next year and it birthed a legendary group of attackers. Official top player Omar Sívori: one of the "Dirty Faced Angels" he was an amazing dribbler and playmaker scoring 3 goals himself. Other possible top performers: Omar Corbatta shared playmaking duties with with Sivori from the wing, while ruthless finishing from the remaining two dirty faced angels Humberto Maschio (9 goals) and Antonio Angelillo (8 goals) rounded out an amazing attack. Brazil hab an amazing attack of their won lead by Didi who scored an amazing 6 goals from the midfield. Alberto Terry (5 goals), Javier Ambrois (9 goals), and Evaristo (8 goals) also gave excellent performances. All the player listed were rated very highly with Angelillo rated the highest followed by Maschio.

    1959: Hosts: Chile. Participants (7): Argentina, Brazil, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Peru, Uruguay. Another fully attended tournament from all top teams with top squads. Champion Brazil. Official top player Pele: undoubtedly the top player despite coming in second place, top scorer with 8 goals and the top rated player by far. Other possible top performers: Didi and Garrincha were both highly rated. Strangely no Argentine players were highly rated despite their victory. Omar Corbatta was their biggest name regularly coming across the score sheet with 3 goals.

    1959: Hosts: Ecuador. Participants (5): Argentina, Brazil, Ecuador, Paraguay, Uruguay. The big three were hear with Argentina and Uruguay bringing reasonably strong teams while Brazil did not. Champion Uruguay. Official top player Alcides Silveira the midfielder scored 3 goals for the champions. Other possible top performers: José Sanfilippo was the top scorer of the tournament for runners up Argentina, scoring 6 of their 9 goals.

    1963: Hosts: Bolivia. Participants (7): Argentina, Brazil, Bolivia, Colombia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Peru. All of the top teams brought their B squad or worse. No point in delving any deeper. Champion Bolivia.

    1967: Hosts: Uruguay. Participants (6): Argentina, Bolivia, Chile, Paraguay, Uruguay, Venezuela. Uruguay and Argentina brought good squads with Chile also being solid. Champion Uruguay. Official top player Pedro Rocha: the multi-skilled playmaker scored three goals the winner in the 1-0 deciding game with Argentina. Luis Artime was the tournaments top scorer with 5 goals. Montero Castillo Defensive stalwart for Uruguay who scored a goal and was part of the defense that only allowed 2 goals.
     
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  2. Tom Stevens

    Tom Stevens Member+

    Dec 12, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    1975: Hosts: none. Participants (10): Argentina, Brazil, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Peru, Uruguay, Venezuela. All teams participated and all brought strong squads (Brazil's was not its best squad but still a good one). Champion Peru. A very impressive achievement with full attendance from the entire continent. Official top player Teófilo Cubillas: The greatest Peruvian player ever scored three times and led an excellent Peru squad to the title.

    1979: Hosts: none. Participants (10): Argentina, Brazil, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Peru, Uruguay, Venezuela. All teams participated and all brought strong squads. Champion Paraguay. A very impressive achievement with full attendance from the entire continent. Official top player Carlos Caszély: led Chile to the runners up position.

    1983: Hosts: none. Participants (10): Argentina, Brazil, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Peru, Uruguay, Venezuela. The top teams brought decent teams but not their best. Champion Uruguay. A very impressive achievement with full attendance from the entire continent. Official top player Enzo Francescoli: The young Uruguayan was bursting on to the scene and scored in the final vs Brazil.

    1987: Hosts: none. Participants (10): Argentina, Brazil, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Peru, Uruguay, Venezuela. Most nation brought their top teams or close. Champion Uruguay. Official top player Carlos Valderrama: Colombia's best player gave gave a dazzling display.

    1989: Hosts: none. Participants (10): Argentina, Brazil, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Peru, Uruguay, Venezuela. Most nation brought their top teams of close. Champion Brazil. Official top player Ruben Sosa: The uruguayan led his team to Second place, scoring a critical brace in the final stage vs Argentina. I am partial to Bebeto, who led his team to the title as tournament top scorer.

    1991
    : Hosts: none. Participants (10): Argentina, Brazil, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Peru, Uruguay, Venezuela. It was a mix pot with Argentina bringing a strong team, Brazil brought a B team and smaller nations brought good teams. Champion Argentina. Official top player Leonardo Rodríguez, the midfielder was a key component of the victory, although I might favor top scorer Gabriel Batistuta (6 goals) or stopper Oscar Ruggeri.

    1993: Hosts: none. Participants (10): Argentina, Brazil, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Peru, Uruguay, Venezuela. The top teams brought solid young teams but not full A squads. Champion Argentina. Official top player Sergio Goycochea, the goalkeeper was a key component of the victory.

    1995: Hosts: none. Participants (10): Argentina, Brazil, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Peru, Uruguay, Venezuela. The top teams mixed sides with some top players and some young players. Champion
    Uruguay. Official top player Enzo Francescoli: ow in a playmaking role as oppose to a forward.

    1997: Hosts: none. Participants (10): Argentina, Brazil, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Peru, Uruguay, Venezuela. most teams except Brazil Brought B teams. They were smashed by Ro-Ro. Champion
    Brazil. Official top player Rolando.

    1999: Hosts: none. Participants (10): Argentina, Brazil, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Peru, Uruguay, Venezuela. most teams except Brazil Brought B teams. Ronaldo and Rivaldo crushed the competition. Champion Brazil. Official top player Rivaldo.

    2001: Hosts: none. Participants (10): Argentina, Brazil, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Peru, Uruguay, Venezuela. All B teams at best, no point in going further.

    2004: Hosts: none. Participants (10): Argentina, Brazil, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Peru, Uruguay, Venezuela, Costa Rica, Mexico. Brazil and Argentina brought decent teams but not full A squads.
    Champion Brazil. Official top player Adriano.

    2007: Hosts: none. Participants (10): Argentina, Brazil, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Peru, Uruguay, Venezuela, United States, Mexico. Brazil and Argentina (Full strength?) brought decent teams but not full A squads. Champion Brazil. Official top player Robinho.

    2011
    : Hosts: Argentina. Participants (10): Argentina, Brazil, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Peru, Uruguay, Venezuela, United States, Mexico. All full strength sides. Champion Uruguay. Official top player Luis Suarez.

    So to summarize to look for the top performances I would start with tournaments that were at least close to fully attended by top teams:

    1937
    1942
    1945
    1946
    1956
    1957
    1959
    1975
    1979
    1987
    1989
    2011

    The pre 1950s stuff might be hard to get a beat on but i know their are ratings out their for the pother stuff. msouix has already linked to some for the 1950s. I would love to see some, especially for the 1970s.

    Making a shortlist from there.

    Obdulio Varela 1942
    Norberto Méndez 1945
    Adolfo Pedernera 1946
    Norberto Méndez 1946
    Óscar Miguez 1956
    Víctor Rodríguez Andrade 1956
    Omar Sívori 1957
    Humberto Maschio 1957
    Antonio Angelillo 1957
    Didi 1957
    Pele 1959
    Teófilo Cubillas 1975
    Hector Chumpitaz 1975?
    Carlos Valderrama 1987
    Ruben Sosa 1989
    Bebeto 1989
    Luis Suarez 2011

    From what little knowledge i have the ones that stick out to me from there as the cream of the crop are.

    Obdulio Varela 1942
    Norberto Méndez 1945
    Omar Sívori 1957
    Humberto Maschio 1957
    Antonio Angelillo 1957
    Pele 1959
    Teófilo Cubillas 1975

    Totally open for debate and input. Once we exhaust what resources/willpower we have to discuss Copa Americas we can move on to European Cup/Champions Leagues, European Championships, Copa Libertadores.
     
  3. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    #3 msioux75, May 1, 2014
    Last edited: May 1, 2014
    Nice thread mate :cool:
    and thanks for your kind words

    About the awards for Copa America, as the autor from RSSSf said, was based mainly in publications by El País (Uru) and El Grafico (Arg), both published at late 90s. (also, both publications born at late 1910s)
    http://www.rsssf.com/tabless/sachampfull.HTML
    So, my feelings is that those awards were retroactively (esp. the older ones)


    btw, in another thread, some of us discussed about Bs.As. South American championship 1959
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/community/...-if-pele-in-place-of-maradona.1993025/page-15

    For RSSSF: Pele was 1st.
    For El Grafico: Didi-1st, Pele-2nd and Garrincha (3rd?)
    For La Prensa: Pele-1st, Asca-2nd and Didi, Mouriño, Garrincha (around 3rd). Ratings until 5th round.

    So, crossing sources, in CA'1959 i'd rated both Pele and Didi very close and in high level.
     
    Once repped this.
  4. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    #4 JamesBH11, May 1, 2014
    Last edited: May 1, 2014
    Pele was officially best player at copa 1959 period (plus topscorer of the tourney)
    8goals+2,3as/5.5games
    Garrincha only played in last 3 games, he could not possibly be 3rd -
    There was no "best player prize" back then but only topscorer (Pele won it) - years later Copa made an official selection *following WC goldenball to select MVP/best player to distinguish with topscorer. Pele was surely the one there.

    ============================================
    This is the sum up of that Copa tourney

    • Copa América 1959
    • Argentina Overcome Pelé’s Brazil

      Not even with their 1958 World Cup champions, Garrincha, Didi, Nilton Santos, Zagallo, Djalma Santos and, above all, Pelé, did Brazil manage to prevent hosts Argentina from lifting the 1959 Copa América. Staged at the Monumental de Núnez Stadium, in Buenos Aires, the competition was the first and also the last King Pelé took part in. With eight goals in six matches, Pelé became the top scorer of the tournament, but was unable to clinch the title, the only one missing in his trophy cabinet.
     
  5. Tom Stevens

    Tom Stevens Member+

    Dec 12, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I was interested in Argentina's ratings at the CA.

    Hear are the Rating you posted

    Sudamericano Buenos Aires 1959

    Sudamericano Bs.As.1959, Best Players by position until 5th round
    (WM variant was the most usual system)

    R.ASCA - 7,80
    Castilho - 7,00
    J.Negri - 5,60
    ---------------
    D.SANTOS - 7,33
    W.Fleming - 7,00
    F.Lombardo - 6,50

    V.BENITEZ - 6,60
    J.Griffa - 6,33
    W.Martinez - 6,00

    J.FERNANDEZ - 5,60
    JC.Mesias - 5,50
    JC.Murua - 5,50
    ---------------
    FORMIGA - 6,67
    Zito - 6,33
    M.Grimaldo - 6,00

    E.MOURIÑO - 7,33
    A.Silveyra - 6,67
    C.Sanabria - 6,40
    ---------------
    GARRINCHA - 7,33
    O.Gomez Sanchez - 6,00
    Dorval - 5,50

    DIDI - 7,20
    M.Loayza - 6,60
    H.Demarco - 6,00

    P.VALENTIM - 7,00
    J.Joya - 6,80
    R.Aveiro - 6,00

    PELE - 8,00
    E.Calla - 6,40
    A.Terry - 6,20

    G.ESCALADA - 6,50
    R.Belen - 6,20
    J.Seminario - 5,80

    http://www.rsssf.com/tables/59-1safull.html
    Source: La Prensa (peruvian newspaper), march 1959.

    Best Argentina players:

    Eliseo Mouriño 7.33
    Juan Francisco Lombardo 6,50
    Pedro Calla 6,40
    Jorge Griffa 6,33
    Raúl Belén 6,20
    Osvaldo Negri 5,60
    Juan Carlos Murúa 5,50

    I am not very familiar with any of these guys. Was this Argentina's A sqaud? Omar Corbatta and Ruben Sosa are some more famous names that also played but were not rated. It is strange that 1) Full strength Brazil was unable to overcome an Argentina side who just lost their top three attackers and who may not have been a full A squad even without them. 2) That Brazil's players were so much higher rated than Argentina's.

    Combined Ratings:

    Pele 8,00
    Garrincha 7,33
    Djalma Santos 7,33

    Eliseo Mouriño 7.33
    Didi 7,20
    Paulo Valentim 7,00
    Formiga 6,67

    Juan Francisco Lombardo 6,50
    Pedro Calla 6,40

    Zito 6,33
    Jorge Griffa 6,33
    Raúl Belén 6,20
    Osvaldo Negri 5,60

    Dorval 5,50
    Juan Carlos Murúa 5,50
     
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  6. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Regarding that 1959 tournament:

    - Which footage does actually exist from that tournament? Are, for example, all Brazil + Argentina goals captured on film?
    - Was it possible for journalists to follow the whole tournament in entirety?
    - How is it possible that Brazil their best players have better ratings than Argentina and yet lost the round-robin tournament?
     
  7. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    #7 JamesBH11, May 1, 2014
    Last edited: May 1, 2014
    yes all games were available
    Argentina won for they got more WIN games (not becuase the beat Brazil) Pele scored a tied goal in 1-1 vs Argentina last game was NOT enough to beat Argentina in round robin.
    Actually Pele needed (or Brazil) to score 3goals in that game to get the trophy!!!

    how possibly Cruyff won WC74 goldenball while Germany lifting the WC trophy?
    how Ronaldo won Wc98 goldenball when Fance got the WC??
    how Forlan won WC goldenball while his team was only in #3 place ...????
     
  8. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Some answers.
    The Copa America 1959, was played in River's stadium. In fact, the tradition until 60s was that one city held the tournament and wasn't named Copa America yet.
    So, the names were something like.
    - "Sudamericano de Lima 1935" (all matches played in "Estadio Nacional")
    - "Sudamericano de Buenos Aires 1959" (all matches played in Monumental de Nuñez)

    It was very common by then, some days schedule a "double match", with the most important played at the end of the day. So, many of those tournaments were played in only one stadium.


    In the CA 1959, Argentina line-up a Racing/Boca based team, both having strong defenses. Eliseo Mouriño was the best argentine mid in the 50s (behind Rossi), Lombardo one of their best RBs ever and Griffa was sold to Atlético Madrid after that (being highly rated there).

    Among the FWs, Corbatta seems in low form, being replaced in the last rounds. Manfredini and Sosa alternate in the CF role. Raul "the witch" Belen was arguably the best LW that tournament. Calla was a very good player but irregular, a kind of "one season wonder" and the most experienced player, Pizzuti, played at his best in last rounds.

    Sadly i missed the last two rounds ratings, just when Argentina played its best matches: 4-1 win vs Uruguay and a tie vs Brazil.
    The Argentina-Brazil played in Bs.As. was a derby, already. But also, could be said that Brazil lost the title in its amazing draw vs Peru in the 1st round.
     
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  9. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Checked the 'Pelé Eterno' DVD but somehow goals from CA do not feature. Unlike the Paulista goals or "O'Higgins Cup". It's entirely skipped.
     
  10. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Brazil 3 - Uruguay 1
    BRA: Castilho (Gilmar) - Djalma Santos, Bellini, Coronel (Paulo Valentim) - Orlando, Formiga - Garrincha (Dorval), Didí, Almir, Pelé, Chinezinho
    URU: Leiva - Davoine, Martínez, Mesías - Gonçalves, Silveira - Borges (46 Fernández), Demarco, Douksas, Sasía, Escalada (46 Aguilera)
    0:1 Escalada 36, 1:1 Paulo Valentim 62, 1:2 Paulo Valentim 80, 1:3 Paulo Valentim 89
    sent off: Orlando (32), Almir (32) / Davoine (32), Gonçalves (32)


    That match had a superb fight



    The Final game
    Argentina 1 - Brazil 1
    ARG: Negri - Lombardo (46 Simeone), Griffa (50 Cardoso), Murúa - Mouriño, Cap - Nardiello, Pizzuti, Sosa, Callá (60 Rodríguez), Belén
    BRA: Gilmar - Djalma Santos, Bellini, Orlando, Coronel - Dino Sani, Didí - Garrincha, Paulo Valentim (Almir), Pelé, Chinezinho
    1:0 Pizzuti 40, 1:1 Pelé 58
     
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  11. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    #11 JamesBH11, May 1, 2014
    Last edited: May 1, 2014
    so? it did not mean those games were not existed.
    I owned at least 2 games 59 of Pele in VHS and I surely watched most of them (available) in Brazil.

    Some might not be full length game, and some might not have audio sounds ...and all in black and white with low quality
     
  12. Tom Stevens

    Tom Stevens Member+

    Dec 12, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Great post the ratings you posted make a little more sense now, with Argentina's last two games missing.
     
  13. Once

    Once Member+

    Apr 16, 2011
    Do you happen to know why Sanfilippo did not play that tournament? He played the other one that same year and scored 6 goals in 4 games. Top scorer in Argentina in 1958 and 1959 it would have been great to have him and Pelé fight for top scorer here. I know he was not in Boca nor Racing at the time, but neither was Callá (Argentinos Jrs) and he was a starter...
     
  14. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Interesting question.
    I think he also was an initial starter in 1957 and until early 60s one of the best Southamerican Inside Left.
    Maybe, new coach prefered a Racing style, by then (the 5 men of the FW line were in the roaster

    Arguably, Sanfilippo and Corbatta were the only star FWs remaining in Argentina and weren't big factor in his 1959 win.
    Maybe some argentinian poster, can throw some light.
     
  15. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    #15 Vegan10, May 1, 2014
    Last edited: May 1, 2014
    I believe I mentioned this in the past. I cannot speak for countries outside of Argentina, but inside the country mostly every major newspaper and sports magazines covered this event. As far as I'm concerned, there existed no ratings in the Argentine press, only analysis. And as I mentioned before, Argentina fielded a new squad, without the experience of teams from the past after the debacle of WC58, while many other teams were rebuilding.

    Previously mentioned a review done by Moreno in regards to this event and the teams.
    And El Grafico's review:
    According to them, this may have been their top man:
    [​IMG]
     
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  16. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    I've a question?
    In the EC'1964 didn't participated teams as Scotland, W.Germany.
    And the previous one had more withdraw countries. Are you considered those tourneys as "fully attended".

    I mean, in South America for the pre-70s editions. Some of them with the attendance by 2 of the big-3 and two of the underdogs (Peru, Chile and Paraguay).
    In a tournament with at least 5 countries, it gives a good idea about the overall level of the NTs inside the continent, imho.
     
  17. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    Hi msioux, do you know if Peru sent correspondents to cover the 1959 events in their entirety? Is there any breakdown of the events from your side? Thanks.
     
  18. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Hi Vegan, good to see you again.
    The reports you posted are great and a complete overview from the event.

    For the peruvian press asisted the most prominent (esp. La Prensa and El Comercio). The first one, out of circulation, and the 2nd don't have a digital archive. The magazines had at best, one year of circulation.

    The breakdown come before/after the match vs Argentina, seems to had been a tight match, and Peru missing a better luck to get a draw. After that, affected us the fitness, the amount of club's scouts distracting players, etc.
    http://dechalaca.com/hemeroteca/que-level/que-level-una-chalaca-monumental

    Just a couple of months after Copa America, we smashing England 4-1 in a friendly. And then, our team was completely dismantled.
     
  19. Tom Stevens

    Tom Stevens Member+

    Dec 12, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I would not consider those ECs fully attended, especially 1960, and would be unlikely to select a performance from one of those tournaments as one of the greatest EC performances of all time. However, a few top teams missing from an EC is far less detrimental to the tournaments quality that a few top teams missing from a CA. A EC in the 60s missing England and Italy has a far stronger field than a CA in the 60s missing Brazil and Argentina.

    I agree that some of the CA tournaments that are missing a top side can still be important competitions but if we are looking for the best of the best performances I would look to fully attended tournaments first.
     
  20. Tom Stevens

    Tom Stevens Member+

    Dec 12, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    msioux, since you are Peruvian I wanted to ask you about CA 75. Are there any Ratings available? Who were considered the top performers outside of Cubillas?
     
  21. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Well, i don't see any ratings or Best XI for CA 75.
    But i checked a peruvian magazine "Ovacion" and main newspapers for an approx. ratings for some players:
    Take it with a grain of salt:

    CHI 1 - PER 1: Cubillas & Rojas (very good), Oblitas (good), Meléndez & Velasquez (correct)
    BOL 0 - PER 1: Meléndez & Sartor (excellent), Chumpitaz (very good), Cubillas, Ramirez & Rojas (good)
    PER 3 - BOL 1: Oblitas & Cueto (good), Ramírez (correct)
    PER 3 - CHI 1: Meléndez & Rojas (excellent), Oblitas & Sartor (very good), Cubillas (correct)
    BRA 1 - PER 3: Cubillas (excellent), Chumpitaz, Oblitas, Meléndez, Casaretto & Ojeda (very good)
    PER 0 - BRA 2: Casaretto (bad)
    COL 1 - PER 0: Sartor (bad)
    .......
    PER 1 - COL 0: Cubillas (very good)

    In general, i think, Cubillas was our best performer, closely follow by Chumpitaz, Meléndez & Oblitas.
     
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  22. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    In general, i understand your point.

    btw, some notes:
    - In the 1922 edition, attended 5/6 afiliated countries, but Uruguay and Argentina had a cisma in their leagues.
    - In 1937, attended 6/8 afiliated countries to Conmebol, the six were the stronger teams.
    - In 1947, attended 8/9 afiliated countries (only missing Brazil).
    - In 1949, attended 8/9 afiliated countries (missing Argentina and Uruguay sending a B-team)
    - In 1953, attended 7/9 (missing Argentina)
    - In 1955, attended 6/9 (missing Brazil)
    - In some recent editions, countries sending a B-team, decreased the overall level, i agree. But some of them, could be debatable, imo
     
  23. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    Thanks. Do you know if La Prensa and El Comercio only covered Peru's matches or every match of the competition? The Brazilian digital newspaper site http://acervo.folha.com.br/ glosses over other matches but does not go into real detail other than for Brazil's matches.
     
  24. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    For the 50s, yes they did (esp. La Prensa with their ratings).
    Those are available in the national Library.
     
  25. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    Interesting. Do you know what was their overall impression of the tournament? In Argentina the press voices were not very encouraging.
     

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