Top 50 foreigners in Ligue 1 / Division 1

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by PuckVanHeel, Sep 23, 2012.

  1. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Even Yeso Amalfi wasn't picked by brazilian NT, he was part of important south american clubs at late 40s, playing alongside legends as Boye, S.Varela in Boca Jrs. or Schiaffino, Ghiggia and Miguez in Peñarol.
    btw, i read that Ruben Bravo had a better recognition in Ligue 1 than Amalfi at the 50s.


    Do you mean Ernst Stojaspal, here?


    In his argentinian years, Bianchi was benched by Hector Yazalde (golden boot in europe and also POY in 1970) in the NT.
    In the late 7os, Bianchi and Piazza were the only names who were claimed to be part of the WC'78 squad. At that time Bianchi was arguably the best south american CF with the likes of Caszely and Reinaldo.
    But the main reason, is that south american NT didn't used to repatriated players overseas to played a major tournament at NT level.
     
  2. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    He is a real hero by the way. He refused to make a Hitler-salute during the war when he was forced to play for Hertha BSC.

    I now remember this because yesterday on television they memorized, and showed, a similar incident.

    In the UEFA Cup quarter final of the 1980/1981 season played Cologne and Standard Liege against each other - game was played in Cologne. Referee was British, the Irishman Carpenter. Not for the first time in history was also this British referee biased in favor of the Germans. He made a few controversial decisions and Littbarski scored the eventual winner in the 87th minute. Cologne progressed.

    In the 90th minute showed Liege captain Renquin his dismay to the referee. The referee showed him the red card for to him unknown reasons. Probably it was for talking but for Renquin it came as a surprise, he had not expected it.

    Renquin was dismissed and as response he showed the Hitler salute in front of the referee and the crowd of Cologne, as sign of protest.

    UEFA was not without mercy and banned him for six games.
     
  3. elviejomen

    elviejomen Member+

    Aug 3, 2007
    Hasbrouck Heights NJ
    Club:
    Junior Barranquilla
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Do you guys think Mario Alberto Yepez deserve a mention?
     
  4. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
  5. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    interesting btw that Pastoriza isn't included. I think now about him because I saw Peru his thread
     
  6. Baron Zbimg

    Baron Zbimg Member

    Oct 28, 2012
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    I think there are two reasons why Susic is ranked that high:
    1 - Longevity : he played for a decade in France and that had to account for something in the mind of the writers of France Football, but the most important thing
    2 - Susic was absolute class, probably the most skilled player that has ever played in France. He had Michael Laudrup type vision, and could do absolutely whatever he wanted with his feet. He was somewhat inconsistend, but IMHO he's still the most talented player that has ever played in France.
    At the 1990 WC, in a Yugoslavia team full of fuoriclasse and skillful players (Stojkovic, Prosinecki, Savicevic, Suker), he was considered the best by the majority, and by the players themselves.

    The two quotes you can find on Susic in his Wikipedia page are pretty telling.

    Gerd Müller: "If you were to rank Safet Sušić with the all-time greats, you would have to put him in at least the top 40"

    His teammate Darko Pancev : "It's well known how much I valued and still do value Safet Sušić. For me he's unsurpassable, the best Yugoslavia had. Probably one of the best in the world. I was often known to say that us other players should have to pay to play in the same team as Pape. At least I always talked and thought like that. Pape was a treasure for every forward. His crosses were unbelievable. Sometimes his ball would hit me without me even being aware of it. A wonderful player."

    Rai was a big transfer for PSG but for 6 months he had trouble to settle and everyone was wondering who the heck was this supposed superstar who was slower than a Trabant. Then his pure class took over. He was truly amazing with Sao Paulo against Barca, that quote by Cruyff is awesome, I had never heard it.
    Jairzinho isn’t included cause, contrary to Caju, he didn’t even play one full season, and just had trouble to settle, not performing at his best. (still scoring 9 goals, but only playing 18 games, definitely not enough to qualify)
    Mustapha Dahleb should be higher, he was another incredibly skilled and influential player that played his whole career in France.
    Juninho 3rd is a joke. He was great, but he isn't on par with some of the greats that are rated below him. Others that should be lower are Klinsmann, Milla and Mozer.
    This is a great list though, and a fantastic forum !
     
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  7. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    Welcome to BS (not bulls... ok? haha)

    Agree with what you said .... If you can post more of Susic or source that would be great
     
  8. Baron Zbimg

    Baron Zbimg Member

    Oct 28, 2012
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    A few facts about Susic : First, Yugoslavian players weren’t authorized to leave Yugoslavia until 28, so Susic joined PSG aged 28, played the 1990 WC at 35, and played his last season in French 1st division at 37, which is awesome for a playmaker, but he was of course way past his prime.
    He joined PSG thanks to an imbroglio: Susic was supposed to sign in Italy but he signed two contracts, one for Torino and one for Inter, so he was suspended there, which gave PSG this golden opportunity.
    Susic settled in extremely quickly in France, and a soon as his first year he was magnificent in the French Cup final. Luis Fernandez claimed during the year : “Since he’s here we haven’t lost two games in a row. He scores, and makes others score. He’s being criticized cause he doesn’t do much defensively, alright, but he’s so good offensively!”
    When Houiller arrived at PSG in 1985, that’s what he said about Safet : “He knows so much tactically and he can beat you in a number of ways. He plays his best in the big games. I like creators and he always creates. It’s true that you have to find the right balance around him, but he has so much talent, so much will.”
    (the Vangelis music is really annoying sorry about that. Also, it’s more of a goals compilation, which really wasn’t what Safet was about. The last goal at 5’26 is probably the more telling.)
    And here’s the 1983 French Cup Final against a good Nantes team, with Bertrand-Demanes in Goal, Ayache at Left Back, Maxime Bossis, Seth Adonkor (Marcel Desailly half brother, a great player who died in a car crash), José Touré (who scores an amazing goal), Halilhodzic etc … Susic was by far the best player on the field that day:
     
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  9. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    You got those quotes from vintage magazines?

    It would be great if someone has or knows the ratings in those seasons by France Football or any other good publication.

    Yeah, definitely agree that Susic is a good and defensible number one.
     
  10. Baron Zbimg

    Baron Zbimg Member

    Oct 28, 2012
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    TV interviews. The one from Houiller (who is a desipisable coach IMHO) is from the 85-86 season, which ended up in PSG's first League title. He threw him under the bus less than a year later, with PSG struggling down the ranking, and Susic wasn't starting anymore. Houiller ended up taking the sack, Ivic replaced him and Susic saved PSG again.
    I really have no idea what his France Football Ratings were, probably very good, but as I stated above, Susic was also inconsistent, there were games (although few of them) where he wouldn't do anything for 90 minutes, then there were games where he wouldn't do anything for 80 minutes and would be brillant the other 10, scoring a decisive goal or dishing out a marvelous assist.I'd be interested if anyone has those too.
     
  11. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    Good stuffs on Susic... :thumbsup:
     
  12. Triton

    Triton Member

    Apr 27, 2009
    Really ''glad'' those two came so high.

    You got some pretty good answers on the topic.

    I would definitely agree that he was one most skilled and creative players that Europe produced. If you have time, I suggest you to watch some of his games. You'll be entertained.
     
  13. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Where can one find his games?
     
  14. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    While I'm posting info from this link I thought it was a good idea to put the list of Foreign Ligue 1 Players of the Year (not completely clear but maybe calendar year rather than season, like the French Player of the Year award was) in this thread for comparison to the list posted in post 1:

    1968 Salif Keita Mali Saint-Etienne
    1969 Roger Magnusson Sweden Marseille
    1970 Josip Skoblar Yugoslavia Marseille
    1971 Josip Skoblar Yugoslavia Marseille
    1972 Leif Eriksson Sweden Nice
    1973 Hugo Bargas Argentina Nantes
    1974 Carlos Bianchi Argentina Reims
    1975 Osvaldo Piazza Argentina Saint-Etienne
    1976 Ivan Curkovic Yugoslavia Saint-Etienne
    1977 Mustapha Dahleb Algeria PSG
    1978 Johny Rep Netherlands Bastia
    1979 Nenad Bjekovic Yugoslavia Nice
    1980 Delio Onnis Argentina Tours
    1981 Umberto Barberis Switzerland Monaco
    Andrzej Szarmach Poland Auxerre
    1982 Umberto Barberis Switzerland Monaco
    Andrzej Szarmach Poland Auxerre
    1983 Safet Susic Yugoslavia PSG
    1984 Vahid Halilhodzic Yugoslavia Nantes
    1985 Vahid Halilhodzic Yugoslavia Nantes
    1986 Jorge Burruchaga Argentina Nantes
    1987 Enzo Francescoli Uruguay Matra Racing Paris
    1988 Glenn Hoddle England Monaco
    1989 Klaus Allofs Germany Bordeaux
    1990 Enzo Scifo Belgium Auxerre
    1991 George Weah Liberia Monaco
    1992 Lubomir Moravcik Slovakia Saint-Etienne
    1993 Alen Boksic Croatia Marseille
    1994 Japhet N'Doram Chad Nantes
    1995 Rai Brazil PSG
    1996 Sonny Anderson Brazil Monaco
    1997 Rai Brazil PSG
    1998 Marco Simone Italy PSG
    1999 Shabani Nonda Burundi Rennes
    2000 Marco Simone Italy Monaco
    2001 Pedro Miguel Pauleta Portugal Bordeaux
    2002 Pedro Miguel Pauleta Portugal Bordeaux
    2003 Didier Drogba Ivory Coast Marseille
    2004 Juninho Brazil Lyon
    2005 Juninho Brazil Lyon
    2006 Juninho Brazil Lyon
    2007 Johan Elmander Sweden Toulouse
    2008 Fernando Cavenaghi Argentina Bordeaux

    http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/franpoy.html

    So Skoblar's two consecutive wins were the joint most until the Juninho Pernambucano period. Weah winning in 1991 is quite significant (over Waddle for example) I'd say, but on the other hand N'Doram took it instead of him in 1994 (this is for French league performances only though I assume).
     
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  15. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    #65 wm442433, Apr 14, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2016
    Yes.

    N'Doram should have had it in 1995 as well really. Or it's a tie with Rai as it was done in 81-82, at worst. If there's a year that N'Doram was clearly the best foreigner it is well in 1995.
    But that shows it is calendar year indeed. They had already gave it to the Nantais and PSG was leading the League with 10 pts in December .They gave it to Rai, who was finally showing all his talents (in domestic competitions mainly, not so much in Europe, while N'Doram was starting to get injured at times (while being still the best scorer for his club however, he became more finisher) and was playing in "less mouth-watering" matches in the Champions League group stage from which Nantes qualified but not without difficulties whilst Rai and PSG were the favorites to win the the Cup Winners Cup this season (with Parma that they will eliminate in quarter-finals in March '96 with a very good performance by Rai btw, he'll be injured after 10 mins of play in the winning final against Rapid Wien). PSG was taking the highlights whilst Nantes had lost some of his best players (like Loko gone to...PSG) and his beautiful game after a perfect season. At the same time Rai was finally showing what was expected from him since his arrival whilst Valdo (who coud have been why not elected in '94, but now maybe it was a bit too late he is more '93) had left to Benfica making room in the team with Rai playing more regularly as a consequence. It has much to do with the inverted curves of Nantes and PSG + the dynamic of the moment of each player in autumn/winter. But that's true that PSG won Coupe de France and Coupe de La Ligue with Rai in May '95... when they were crushed twice by Nantes and N'Doram in the League, once in 94 and once in '95). I'm just still after thinking about it and I believe that it could have been a tie bewteen N'Doram and Rai in '95. '94 has no clear best foreigner (N'Doram was more playmaker this year by the way and a very good one, very saluted in this role). But N'Doram deserved it in '94, when I say "no clear best", yes he was very very probably the best but I mean not with a big dominance on other contenders like Skoblar had at his time for example (unless that yes it is the same since the concurrents were rare...). And his best year, season-wise or even calendar year it is 1995. Great number 10 in 94 great 10/striker in 95.
    In the end I'd say N'Doram + Rai in '95, but there's some sort of compensation with '94 that can be understood.
    But talking about the inverted curves of both clubs in 95...yes I only think now about the fact that PSG took his revenge on Nantes by beating them twice their turn (all in 95) with a second win 5-0 in Paris in December (in response of the 0-3 win by Nantes in Paris in January (95).
    Yeah so Rai alone yeah, maybe. In the end Rai has two "trophies" (I don't know if there was one trophy) and N'Doram only one...
    In 97 PSG has a Cup Winners Cup Final and our Rai that reversed the trend against Steaua (in '96) and had some good matches in the League but they did nothing in the national cups and were far of the Sonny Anderson's Monaco for the National title (second at 12 pts). Sonny Anderson was elected the best player of the season (all nationalities takenin acount of course) by UNFP that year by the way (for the season). Anderson's Monaco had beaten Rai' PSG 2-0 with a second by the striker of Monaco in January 97...but Anderson left to Barcelona in the summer when Rai stood in Paris one last season (until may 98 before to go back to SPFC)...
    I love Rai, but that's to rethink about the different contexts of those years.

    We can see 10 players who were elected best foreign player of the year by France Football who were champion in the month of May of the same year: Keita 68, Skoblar 71, Bargas 73, Piazza 75, Curkovic 76, Barberis 82, Hoddle 88, Boksic 93 (retired title), Simone 2000, Juninho 2004-2006.

    6 who were elected after they had been champion the previous year : Keita 68, Piazza 75, Curkovic 76, Halilhodzic 84, Rai 95 (he was just starting to show what he could do in 94 but mainly in the league, not in Europe), Juninho 2004-2006.


    And 6 who were champion the year after their election but not elected best foreigner again : Skoblar 71, Piazza 75, N'Doram 94, S. Anderson 96 (gone to Barça in the summer 97), Juninho 2006, Cavenaghi 2008 (but he was less used in 2008-2009 than in 2007-2008).

    Barberis has been elected the year before to be champion and the year he was champion (both times shared with Szarmach).
     
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  16. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    #66 wm442433, Apr 14, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2016
    No, but he probably meant defender.

    Curious remark. He was just Jairzinho the time he played here. A short time though that's true.

    Of course, the English wiki page of Jairzinho is just...:confused:...
    Caju and Jairzinho left France at the end of the season 1974-1975 because they caused trouble to a referee and had a supsension of 1 year in consequence. Espcecially Jairzinho who punched him, and Caju was in the stuff too. That's why they left...not because they "struggled". On the contrary, despite some inconsistency of OM and of them two too maybe (sometimes Caju did not remember there was a matchday for example...) they proposed a show of attack which was like hitherto unseen in this country. Any team could be crushed by OM with those two, or even before the arrival of Jair with only Caju to start with.

    (but troubles with a ref or not, probably they wanted to leave + they costed much money to the club so it's possible they would have not been prolonged)

    Here I agree. Though he was diminished by injuries at one point, let's remind it too. So he became less influential in consequence.
    In terms of dribbling skills, the name of Waddle, a more recent player, is often told, but there was Dahleb before him. This is also true.

    ///

    UNFP has his trophies since 1994. And here are the foreign players who won the "Best player of the year award" (there's no best foreign player of the year award) :

    1997 : Sonny ANDERSON (BRA, Monaco).
    1998 : Marco SIMONE (ITA, PSG)
    2000: Marcelo GALLARDO (ARG, Monaco).
    2002 and 2003 : Pedro Miguel 'PAULETA' (POR, Bordeaux).
    2004: Didier DROGBA (CIV, OM).
    2005: Michael ESSIEN (GHA, OL).
    2006: JUNINHO PER. (BRA, OL).
    2010;: Lisandro LOPEZ (ARG, OL).
    2011 and 2012 : Eden HAZARD (BEL, LOSC). Elected best young player 2009 and 2010.
    2013 et 2014 : Zlatan IBRAHIMOVIC (SWE, PSG).

    Team of the year (since 2003) :
    2003 : VAN BUYTEN (BEL, OM), ESSIEN (GHA, Bastia), NONDA (RDC, Monaco), PAULETA (POR, Bordeaux).
    2004: YEPES (COL, Nantes), BERNARDI (ARG, Monaco), JUNINHO (BRA, OL), DROGBA (CIV, OM), MORIENTES (SPA, Monaco).
    2005: CRIS (BRA, OL), B. KALOU (CIV, Auxerre), JUNINHO (BRA, OL), ESSIEN (GHA, OL), A. FREI (SWI, Rennes).
    2006: CRIS (BRA, OL), YEPES (COL, PSG), Mah. DIARRA (MAL, OL), JUNINHO (BRA, OL), PAULETA (POR, PSG).
    2007: CRIS (BRA, OL), HILTON (BRA, Lens), K. KEITA (CIV, LOSC), Sey. KEITA (MAL, Lens), ELMANDER (SWE, Toulouse).
    2008: HILTON (BRA, Lens), TAÏWO (OM), WENDEL (BRA, Bordeaux), NIANG (SEN, OM).
    2009: HILTON (BRA, OM), S. DIAWARA (SEN, Bordeaux), TAÏWO (OM), SESSEGNON (BEN, PSG), M. BASTOS (BRA, LOSC).
    2010: S. DIAWARA (SEN, OM), HAZARD (BEL, LOSC), Lis. LOPEZ (ARG, OL), NIANG (SEN, OM).
    2011: TAÏWO (OM), GERVINHO (CIV, LOSC), HAZARD (BEL, LOSC), NENÊ (BRA, PSG), M. SOW (SEN, LOSC).
    2012: HILTON (BRA, Montpellier), N'KOULOU (CAM, OM), BEDIMO (CAM, Montpellier), NENÊ (BRA, PSG), HAZARD (BEL, LOSC).
    2013: SIRIGU (ITA, PSG), N'KOULOU (CAM, OM), T. SILVA (BRA, PSG), MAXWELL (BRA, PSG), VERRATTI (ITA, PSG), IBRAHIMOVIC (SWE, PSG), AUBAMEYANG (FRA-GAB, Saint-Etienne).
    2014: SIRIGU (ITA, PSG), T. SILVA (BRA, PSG), AURIER (CIV-FRA, Toulouse), VERRATTI (ITA, PSG), T. MOTTA (BRA-ITA, PSG), JAMES RODRIGUEZ (COL, Monaco), CAVANI (Uru, PSG), IBRAHIMOVIC (SWE, PSG).
    2015: T. SILVA (BRA, PSG), D. LUIZ (BRA, PSG), MAXWELL (BRA, PSG), VERRATTI (ITA, PSG), J. PASTORE (ARG, PSG), IBRAHIMOVIC (SWE, PSG).

    Best keeper : SIRIGU (ITA, PSG) in 2013 and 2014 (could have been ENYEAMA at least one time imo but it's Sirigu then Mandanda and it's not undeserved for them)
    Young player : HAZARD (BEL, LOSC) 2010 and 2011, VERRATTI (ITA, PSG) 2014.
    Coach : GERETS (BEL, OM) in 2009 and ANCELOTTI (ITA, PSG) in 2013 (shared with Galtier, France).
     
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  17. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    Talking Happel and RC Paris there was the Argentinian right back Carlos Sosa too.
     
  18. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    (I'll make the point on Jaïr/ Caju at OM when I'll have more time as what I have posted on it a bit above^^ was from "the top of my head" and needs some precisions/ clarifications what I'll do based on a very complete internet article that I've found which is an excellent synthesis of all what we can read on internet or simply before all on paper and to which I'll just have to add one or two things).
     
  19. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    Here's the very complete internet article I thought about on Caju & Jair. It condensates, I think, a maximum of all that we can find here and there about their passage in Marseille, plus there is a video :
    http://www.slate.fr/story/88203/paulo-cesar-jairzinho-champions-monde-france

    It's all in French. I'll underline that : that when Jairzinho was finally ready to play, OM went from the 13°-14° rank in the League (in winter, at the half-time of the season) to the second place in the end of the season (behind Saint-Etienne, and I recall that we are in 74-75 btw).

    On Caju, on France foot site : http://www.francefootball.fr/news/2-aout-1974-paulo-cesar-un-artiste-a-l-om/578210

    On Caju, still : http://www.lequipe.fr/Football/Actu...e-champion-du-monde-pour-de-la-cocaine/552337

    ^ Here it's a bit less about football, we're told that Caju was an alcoholic and did drugs. Caju tells about it. He tells that he sold his World Champion medal and replica of the World Cup trophy to buy cocaïne, to his regret. According to him, his addiction started precisely in Marseille in 74. He would have stopped 17 years later (after that around '83 when ending his career in Aix-en-Provence, near Marseille, a doctor warned him seriously).

    Now I want to say that Paulo César speaks well French. According to the last news we have had of him in France (in 2014 or a bit before from memory) he still lives now in Aix, when it's winter in the Southern hemisphere. And vice-versa, the 6 other months in Rio.

    So I wanted to find again some videos of some passage of him at L'Equipe TV but can't find it again. I remember that it was excellent : the anecdocts, his love for the "beautiful game" or his "football philosphy" so to speak, and his virulence against Dunga, Parreira...that was much passionate. I can remember that he said that Parreira and some others in Brazilian League of now had nothing to do with football, that they were in fact, actually, physical education teacher of formation who entered into football and that now it was only that at the federation and in the clubs. That it was a politic from the CBF too.

    Now, I've managed to re-find this still (more easily) : some itw's with Didier Roustan (journalist) in video :

    Here, they are at the new Maracana :



    Caju is nostalgic of the Maracana, he who played here a lot with Botafogo. And does not hide his disgust for the new version.

    In the next video, he talks about the 1970 team :



    Here is what he says :

    3:00 : "This team started in the year '69 with Joao Saldanha. Saldanha was a coach who was chosen for the people, for everybody. That was a "popular election" [that's what he literally says, we can understand the idea which is about the fact that Saldanha was chosen due to the popular pression, that the people liked him, certainly for his style of play, not that he was exactly elected by the people in practice of course and that in the end it satisfied 'everybody' at this time].

    "As he was under pressure in '69 [with a few time to work] he built a team based on players from Santos, Botafogo and Cruzeiro with 7 players from these teams. We're qualified. Saldanha knows problems, in particular with the government, there's Zagallo who comes in and who changes a bit this team : with Félix as the keeper, C.Alberto, RB, Santos, Brito, Vasco da Gama stopper, Piazza, DM transformed here into a libero, Cruzeiro, Everlado, Grêmio LB. Midfield : Clodoaldo from Santos, Gérson, Sao Paulo, 10, Rivelino 10 at Corinthians, left winger at midfield, 7, Jair who was 10 also at Botafogo, Tostao, CF, but 10 at Cruzeiro and Pelé 10 at Santos.

    4:27 : « So why he built this team there ? » Caju, asks himself. And journalist (Didier Roustan) takes the floor. He says : so it's five number 10 together, it's never seen before.

    Now Caju : « yes it's never seen. And Zagallo... [so it was Zagallo' idea, but Caju fnally wants to underline something else to start with] and three left-footed : Gérson, Rivelino, Tostao. What he has done [Zagallo] ? As it was a team with much talents, it was easier to understand each other rather than the hubbub. We spent 60 days in [insert the name of the place here] at 3000 m. of altitude for the physical condition to arrive in the Final, as it took place in Mexico at 3.200 m., at our top level.

    As he [Zagallo] had only Jair who ran fast (on the right wing), and me (as left winger), he made a team to play the ball, we must keep the ball, it's the shared objective ».

    At 4:40 he now explains the formation he set-up on the table :

    « As he didn't not have confidence into the libero that we had the time, Joel, who was good, but who was not experimented at this epoch, he peferred to drop back Piazza from the midfield to the central defence as the libero, he had good feet him too...Cloadoaldo midfielder of Santos nearby. From there on, two midfielders together : Rivelino midfielder at Corinthians and Gerson midfielder, before at Botafogo and after at Sao Paulo. What we have ? We have the ball under the foot. He has putted Tostao - it was Gerson who had decided this, not Zagallo - he was a pivot whose the game was based on touches of the ball. So the ball was dominated from here in the defense until the midfield and in attack. And we kept the ball, in order to play ».

    Journalist : so there was no long transversal passes of 60 meters...

    « no, no...at times, there was for Jair who went fast...he scored two against Czechoslovakia in the first match...but we [a general « we »] did not know him very well, he was not a starter in '66...but at our club at Botafogo he was a 10, he played as a striker with Roberto. And Gérson he was the midfielder together with me, we played sometimes based on touches of the ball and we played sometimes long balls to Jair, and we did this with the Brazilian selection...[as well] ». Journalist takes the floor.

    7:00. Jounalist asks about the set-up that Caju as chosen and questions him especially about the position that he has chosen for Pelé, in this 4-3-3, on the left wing.

    Caju answers. He precises that in fact Pelé had « the freedom of movement », like Rivelino he adds, so Gérson who « could be here or here or there » at midfield, in consequence.

    It seems that he wanted to insist on the fact that Gérson and Rivelino were the two playmakers of the team at midfield (two left-footed he precises again) so this position that he has chosen for Pelé on the table with the figurines (I don't remember the exact name of it in Portuguese), a bit by default in fact, finally. But also it seems that he has much the game against Uruguay in mind and this is maybe true that Pelé operated quite often on the left into this game (I think yes from the top of my head).

    We continue with Caju's words rightly so on the match against Uruguay, at 7:10. Finally he will talk about this one. He intends to talk about this match to justify himself about the position he has chosen for Pelé.

    « All the press talked about the defeat of 1950...hey, we must remember that we lost etc. etc. Not only in the Brazilian press, but even in the whole world... So we were at Guadalajara for the semi-finals and we were tense, nervous, everybody, amongst the players too with pression from Brazil, all the Brazilian people [he doesn't tell about the politicians but that's what went through his mind in a very first time assuringly] from the Uruguyans too » he adds.
    And at half-time...we took a goal 15 minutes before the half-time, Cubillas receives the ball on the shin and he deceives Félix like that !»

    Caju says Cubillas for Luis Cubilla. It has created confusion in the mind of the journalist who intervenes on it (or maybe that he only feinted it as he wanted to precise things for the video...anyway). The two ways of spelling his name must be acceptable I think.

    Anyway, after he precised that he was well talking about « the Uruguyan, on the right wing », Caju continues. He has by the way not talked about what he especially wanted to talk about still, if you follow well.

    « What he did Maneiro, the Uruguyan who arrived at Bordeaux to finally play at OL ? He made an individual-marking on Gérson. So we could not exit the ball. What said Gérson (not Zagallo) ? [He scratches his rightear]
    He says 'problem'... ».

    Journalist : at half-time ?

    Caju : no, before, on the pitch, after the goal, the first-half was not over yet and Gérson will say that he can't play due to his marking...during the game, before half-time. So he says to Clodoaldo, go you ! And him he played more at the back before the defense...it's him who says that, it's not Zagallo », he repeats, in a more pronunced way than the first time. And what he does, Clodoaldo ? He takes the ball, he goes forward for the first time in his life, he gives the ball to Tostao who was in position of left winger... he puts the ball here [he shows the zone on the left], he runs, Tostao makes the pass, he equalizes ».

    Journalist : he makes the pass to who ?

    Caju : « to Clodoaldo… who had never scored a goal in his life... because Gérson ordered to him 'go forward, me I stay at the back'. And that's from there on that we equalized and 2-1, 3-1.

    9:07 (with no transition, in the continuation of the story Gérson-Clodoaldo) :

    « It was a team, as we did not have much players who went fast... so we must keep the ball. So to keep the ball, you must have talented players who plays well the ball. That, for me, it was the main asset that Zagallo found into this team there.

    And in addition to that, three left-footed, three 10 : Tostao, Rivelino and Gerson. The fundamental aspect was to keep the ball.

    And in addition to that, out of the preparation because at Guadalajara it was at the level of the sea, the temperature was 35-40°, and that it favoured us, it favoured our way of playing. Plus, the intelligence of Zagallo, with the idea of forming a team with many players of the interior [of the pitch, « insides »] alltogether.

    10:00 : the journalist asks Caju to show some tactical plans. 'Zagallo puts you like that at the start but what happens then, everybody is a bit free or there is... there is some balance?'.

    Caju : « Zagallo, the main thing...no he said nothing, it was the players on the pitch as I told you who spoke like that on the pitch...like with Gérson as I told you...against Uruguay...we were afraid, we were nervous...and it is the players who adjusted things...it's the players who talked between themselves on the pitch...the coach he says nothing [little laugh], he knew that there was some people who knew football...

    Journalist : but during two months maybe you worked on some points ?

    Caju : « Yes, him, already, he made some adjustments...he putted Piazza in defense instead of midfield and on the left wing it was Edu, we played in a 4-2-4... ».

    Journalist : oh well... [maybe he remains convinced that the team of the World Cup was in 4-2-4 as well, and by the way he most of all precises for the viewers that Caju and himself speaks now of the pre-tournament team] ah with Saldanha it was like that...

    Caju : « Yes, in 4-2-4, with Saldanha it was like that with Gérson-Piazza and Jair, Pelé, Tostao, Edu, or me from time to time. You understand ? While with Zagallo it was Codoaldo with Gérson-Rivelino, or Rivelino-Gérson it's the same [he exchanges their positions on the table], they could do what they wanted all over the pitch.

    Journalist : and Tostao, and Pelé a bit more on the left...and Tostao could go on the left and...

    Caju : « Yes at times he [Pelé] was on the left, he had the freedom of movement. That's why I tell you Didier : who decided what we're doin', it's the players...how to adjust...did we had to ask the coach what we must do, no.

    Journalist : but sometimes, notably with Italian coaches, it's way more...

    Caju : « But me I'm not Italian [fat laughs] »

    Journalist continues : ...it is more compartmentalized, him he will never have the right to go here, or stuff, or...yes..

    Caju : [laughs], I understood... but it's not us, it's not us...Zagallo, as he was a great player, intelligent, he let things happen on the pitch. Gérson, on the pitch, he was a coach. He talked a lot, he saw much, much vision of the game...it's not the same that Rivelino, you understand. Carlos [Carlos Alberto] same thing, extraordinary vision of the game...

    Journalist : Carlos Alberto (?)...

    Caju : « oh yes...Piazza too...much notions on the spaces...oh yes. Plus him (he points Gérson) who spoke a lot... 'give it', 'we play short'...»

    In French, literally, Caju says « he spoke too much » with that sense of excess, instead of « he spoked much », just. So the journalist demands him to precise by asking if it was tiring (that Gérson talked much or to much) and Caju says :

    « oh no it's beautiful, because he was the one who saw the game... »

    Journalist : because you said that he spoke too much..

    Caju : no no because he spoked too much but it was like that … we gave him his nickname, in Portuguese we say the papagayo, and Gérson he was a papagayo : he talks, and talks and talks and talks... because he saw too much the game, he's very intelligent. Me, after Didi, he's the best. Of all times, that I saw play. Oh yes, I played 6 years with him. He looks, he's always facing the game [Caju mimes a player with the head up and that sees far, the eyes wide-open]. 'We play long, we play short, we play long, we play short, we play long'... »

    Journalist : he was a bit the metronome of the team...

    Caju : «ah, it's him...that's why it's well him who changed things against Uruguay, it's not Zagallo, you understand ? »

    Journalist : And the influence of Pelé in this system...Pelé it was... [Caju starts to react, he changes of posture]... so Pelé :

    Caju : « aahhh, theeerrre...we know him ah ? I believe that it's much important, to talk apart, that there was much respect. Even if there was the King, there was much respect between all those players of that level here. And I believe that we manage to win this World Cup, why : first of all, as I already explained to you [off or in another itw], we had Pelé, who was world champion [sigh like of admiration, the words lack]...the best player in the world. He came for three months with us, at training everyday, without ever saying a word on the preparation or on...nothing, nothing. He said 'I want to win this World Cup'. Before the World Cup he took us all together [he mimes Pelé forming a circle with the players] : 'We have much talent here, we can win this World Cup' [sigh type : what else when Pelé tells you this?]. Zagallo ahaha. Zagallo, he is important for me in the sense that he let the talent express himself on the pitch. Imagine ! Today you can't see three left-footed alltogether on a pitch, at this level here, or five 10. It's not possible. It's possible, except that the Italians they have not that. Not the Germans, not the French-men...Didier Deschamps he does not like that...[forced laugh]. He likes the guys who put their ass on the pitch [laughs still a bit forced]. In Brazil after it was the same. Zagallo, no it was a great player. He saw he had the talent, he has putted the talent alltogether. Chapeau Monsieur Zagallo [hat off Mr. Zagallo].

    We're at 14:00 and the journalist says that maybe if Deschamps had the players he'd play otherwise. To what Caju answers : « no, no because it's not his personnality. Before, the public in Marseille he was happy, today he is is bored, it's football of shit, we have no fun , there's not the dribble, there's not the collective football..this is true [at the time Deschamps was at OM, ok]. « Here in Brazil, same thing, Pareira, or him and him...come on, go off, please, we can't stand it anymore us...me, I told you, I like the football of the artists... ».

    And he comes back to the table and the 70 team :

    « in 65-66 in the line of attack of Botafogo, we were all five internationals, not all starters but all selected. So Jair had already the habit to play with Gérson as a 10, with another striker. And we had the game in short passes but when it was a team that did not know us, we had Jairzinho who dropped back a bit in direction of Gérson like to ask for the ball in the feet but we had signs between us and no in fact it was for a long ball. You see.

    Journalist : Hum. So you are at the half-time in the Final against Italy, it's 1-1, and it's not easy, there's not much spaces. [15:30]

    Caju : « no, the match was balanced, and we lead 1-0...and it's our fault...

    Journalist : there's Félix who...

    Caju : « no, no it 's not Félix...Clodoaldo...Clodoaldooo, who takes the ball, like he knew playing he tried to tackle, he missed his tackle, there's Domenghini who caught the ball, he makes a counter, there's Brito who crashes into Félix...no it is our fault, it is not Félix, or the merit of Italy, it is Clodoaldo who had an unfavourable counter, who tried to make a graço, who tried to make a beautiful gesture...it's not the moment...
    No, no. And we come back in the second half. In attack we had four excellent free-kick takers : Pelé, good free-kick taker, Rivelino, exceptional free-kick taker, Gérson, exceptional free-kick taker and Tostao. In this match there, Rivelino had minimum ten chances at the 18 yards, he has putted them all way off the bar. Extrordinary thing, the day before the match, the rain, in Mexico. The state of the pitch was in favor of the Italian's game, slippery like ice. This is true because if you watch, watch to see ! It was balanced though and then there is Gérson who scores the goal and from that moment on we totally come back and... »

    We are at 16:55. Caju continues :

    « There is also something exceptional. As Italy did individual marking, and we knew it... whe had seen matches of Italy during the week... chapeau Zagallo ! He told to Jair, as there was Facchetti, he told to Jair : 'each time you must drag away Facchetti on the other side of the pitch as he makes individual marking. And it was 3-1 for us and there was a huge space for Carlos Alberto. That, we practiced it at training during the week, on Facchetti. - so we had a substitute to play the role of Facchetti.

    What he did Jair ? He went to the other side in order to have Facchetti following him, it was already 3-1 for us and the fourth goal how he comes ? There's Clodoaldo who takes the ball here, he dribbles past four Italians, he gives to Rivelino who is here [he shows the left side on the table] who passes to Jair who had went here [on the left side] and there is Facchetti next to him. There's Jair who dominates, he comes here [he shows how he longed the penalty-box], he gives to Pelé...

    Journalist : who gives to Carlo...

    Caju : « who waiiits, who waiits...Carlos he was there behind [Caju mimes Pelé taking a look over his shoulder]...he takes the time, he dominates, and Carlos who arriiiiivesss, he taaakes, there is the ball that goes uupp...and he [he mimes the shoot of the ball with the outside of the foot with his hands, clack!]. 4-1 [he stamps one's foot].
    And that we practiced it at training during all the week. Jair, the American, he leads Facchetti on the other side. ».

    Journalist : And that, it is the limit of the individual marking. What did Tostao had of particular … ?

    Caju is once again very reactive : «ah, first of all his intelligence...he was not a centre-forward. He was like me, a midfielder, left-footed, like like...[according to his gestures and his smile, it seems he'd think volante, meia-esquerda and at the same time 'a bit like me', we are at 18:25-30]. It's a team, it's players who love the ball. When forming a team with skilful, intelligent players, us [he mimes you and me in the sense, the adversaries, he excludes himself a bit, it 's a maneer to talk and a way to explain he's talking about a superior player here] we will never see the ball ha ? The truth is that the ball is our own [the Brazilian team, he includes himself to this team again finally, he has started in a good number of matches by the way and was a great player too of course]. And Tostao he dropped back, and he liked to make some one-two's. At Cruzeiro, the style of play it was the same thing, the style of play of Santos it was the same and at Botafogo too ».

    Journalist : And Pelé into there ? Because Pelé it's Pelé.

    Caju groins something then says : « ...because there's no explanations...well...we all named him not 'anybody' or 'Pelé'...we spent 80 days together, everybody called him, even...not Zagallo, but all the others called him 'Rey'. 'Rey'. We saw Pelé...'Rey I need this'...'Rey !' We go training : 'Rey we do a nutmeg', 'Rey we do a one-two', 'Rey we make a jogging', 'Rey we will go out', 'Rey, we go to run...', 'Rey...'

    Journalist : We called him 'king'.

    Caju : « yeah, in a natural maneer. Noo, for me it was the most important thing. Apart from what I explained to you, the genius of Gérson...I know him, I played with him during 7 years, Rivelino same thing, pfff...Jair, same thing [laugh], Carlos...Paulo César, at the beginning [he mimes a little boy, a young man] I had already my tempter, can you imagine ? If we all had had inconciliable tempers ? Ha ? »

    Journalist : But Pelé he has also marked this World Cup because of the goals he scored and the... [he mimes while thinking about his different actions]...


    Caju : « But no, because for us the players, he had already made a lot of extraordinary things and he was already Pelé and us not...it was important in the sense that he was the king and that he was with us : he's our friend, he's by our side, you understand ?

    Journalist : So it has been important.

    Caju : « Oh yes, it was good for… how to say [he touches his shorts]...to avoid the fact of having a player who breaks the balls of others [laughs]. »

    Journalist : It means that there was no shit disturber...

    Caju : « Yesss, imagiinnne, 60 days with shit disturbers ! »

    Journalist : but there, there was no shit disturbers because there was Pelé.

    Caju : « yeaahh »...

    Journalist : so there was nobody...

    Caju : « oh it's important yeah ».

    Journalist : ...to grumble...

    Caju : « no-one ah no-one, I tell you, me . In 60 days, it's impressive. Because I've played with Gérson and Jair in the same club, imagine ! F**k, 60 days without saying a word [he zips his mouth, in mimes], Rivelino the same. Tostao no, Tostao he is calm...some others, all the others... but there was Pelé ».



    /////


    So we understood well in the end that for Caju, the main thing about Pelé is that he was like the big brother of the team. Even more, the King, the undisputable and undisputed King so the team could not know any inner rivalries or any problems of any kind from the preparation of the tournament until the Final, or at least shutted it, and in consequence could stick to that common objective of winning it, objective onto which Pelé had insisted himself while placing his confidence in all the players and lending his determination to all the players.
    But also that for him, the technical and tactical leader on the pitch, the brain of the team was Gérson (not Pelé, so his litlle will to put his figurine at the centre of the team in his set-up on the table). Like Bozsik and not Puskas was seen as the most important player into the Hungarian « Golden Team » by the way, to make a comparision with the precedent dream team of the international football in History.


    /
    Now, a bit apart from that, we can take note that the journalist, Didier Roustan, in the beginning of the video, explains that he has demanded to be buried with his poster of the 1970 Brazilian team (amongst other items not related to football he adds, but for football it's the poster that we see and that he has since this time, of this World Cup).

    A real passionate. Like Caju, who is really a joy to hear. And to see, because he is very expressive with his face, and by the gestures too.
     
    babaorum, comme and PDG1978 repped this.
  20. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    ^ I precise just, on Deschamps at OM, when Caju speaks of it, that he talks in the present tense, but that Deschamps was not at OM anymore. it's all in 2014, the two itw's. it was not clear I guess, Iwanted to say that he talks of 'when' Deschamps was at OM. But for Caju it prolonges in the present. Well ok.
     
  21. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    For pleasure... I mean like that, by passing, here's a vid of Bordeaux-Brest 89-90 (begining of he season) : Jesper Olsen (Denmark) serves Lizarazu for his first goal ever in D1 with a one-two on the left and Piet den Boer (Holland) serves Ferreri. Goethals (Belgium) was the coach of Bordeaux.



    Ah and Den Boer had scored the first goal.

    (just saw this, it's a new video post, that's why too)
     
    Gregoriak repped this.
  22. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    #72 wm442433, Sep 8, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2016
    In November 1960, France Football (in his monthly supplement Football Magazine) makes the review of the foreign players of the French League since 1910.

    1910-1940 : THEY STARTED UP FRENCH FOOTBALL

    ENGLISH ANCESTORS Pic (quite big) : KENNEDY (R.C Paris)
    The English men arrived in France with football. In a first time in the North, Milner and Farnfield in Calais, Peacock in Roubaix, Owen, Bowman, Six in Lille, Turner and Mathey at Racing. Then they invaded Languedoc : Gibson, Martins, Parkes, Harrisson, Cornelius, Barrett, Hewitt at F.C Sète. Afterwards, the British men were represented in Cannes by Aitken, at Stade by Bunyan, in Boulogne by Newell, in Lille by McGowan, in Rouen by Barnes, in Sochaux by Leslie and at R.C Paris by the small and slick Kennedy.

    HUNGARIAN TEACHERS Pic : KOHUT (Marseille)
    The creation of professionalism in 1932 attracted lots of Hungarian footballers in France. Let's enumerate them : Bukovi and Lukacs (Sète), Kalmar (Roubaix), Berkessy (RC Paris), Kalocsaï and Moré (Lille), Kohut and Eisenhoffer (Marseille), Szabo and Bradac (Sochaux), not counting the Magyars who were naturalized. The most of these players brang to their French partners the model for a perfect technique.

    YUGOSLAVIAN ARTISTS
    Pic : Yvan BECK (Sète)
    There was also several Yugoslavians. Like the English men, they most of all reinforced the Languedocians clubs : Sekulic at Montpellier, Stefanovic at Sète and Yvan Beck, the redoubtable gunner at Sète.

    CONSCIENCIOUS SWISS MEN
    Pic (big) : Trello ABBEGGLEN (Sochaux)
    The Helvetian football provided the three Kramer brothers to F.C Sète then at Montpellier. Came after them the goalkeeper Séchehaye at Club Français, the centre-half Bruhin at Marseille and most of all the matchless inside of F.C Sochaux Trello Abbegglen. All were players with exemplary consciousness and correctness.

    DUTCH GOALSCORER
    Pic : BACKHUYS (Metz)
    He was the only marking Dutch man (if we can say) in the pre-war era. His shooting (foot and head), his efficiency, were as famous as his long legs and his protruding ears. He was the star of the team of Metz which was runner-up in the Cup in 1938.

    SKILFUL AUSTRIANS
    Pic : JERUSALEM (Roubaix)
    After the Wunderteam men Jordan and Hiden (who became French), with Henri Hiltl, imposed himself at Roubaix Jerusalem, the stratege with receding hairline and with the Viennese touch of the ball.

    GERMAN PUNCHER
    Pic : Ossi ROHR (R.C Strasbourg)
    The R.C. Strasbourg's centre forward, Ossi Rohr, was, with the Marseille's back Schnoeck, one of the rare German players to bring something to French football. His athletic power, his energy, his shots, were impressive.

    EBULLIANT SPANIARDS
    Pic : URTIZBEREA (Bordeaux)
    Iberian football was more generous pre-war than after. The first Spanish who came to France was the back of Racing Anatol. Then there were afterwards Balmanya and Escola (Sète), Zabalo R.C Paris), Mancisidor and Urtizberea the ox (Girondins de Bordeaux). We'll join to them - by style affinity – the Brazilian Vasconcellos (Marseille) and the Uruguayan Diaz (Red Star).

    Now, and before to continue the review, we can read the following insert on the first double-page :


    THEY HAVE CHOSEN FRANCE
    Pics : Hiden (very big), Hiltl, Simonyi, Koranyi and Ujlaki.
    French football, in general, and the French National Team, in particular, often felt well to welcome naturalized players. They were numerous, indeed, to settle in our country and to choose France as motherland. Let's recall the most famous cases.
    Pre-war, those of Anatol (Spanish), Yvan Beck (Yugoslavian), Désiré Koranyi, André Simonyi, Kaucsar, Siklo, Weiskopf (Hunagarians), Hiltl, Jordan and Hiden (Austrians).
    And post-war, those of Lechantre (Belgian), Skiba (German), Ujlaki (Hungarian) who were internationals, of Gonzalès (Argentine) and Andersson (Swede) who almost been.

    And this one on the next double page :


    FRENCH MEN OF IMPORT
    Pics : Courtois, Cazenave, De Bourgoing.
    In Italy, we call them « oriundi », that is to say of Italian origin. In this way the Monti, Schiaffino, Lojacono, Julinho, Sivori, Angelillo could reinforce the calcio. In France, these footballers of French origin (by their parents or grandparents) were Uruguayans before the war and Argentines after the war.
    The most famous French-Uruguayans played at Sochaux : Cazenave, Duhart (both internationals), Irrigaray. There was a French-Argentine as well at Sochaux : Lauri. Today the French football is invaded by the players of French origins who were born in Buenos Aires : Gauthier (Nancy), Combin and Rambert (Lyon), De Bourgoing and Dandru (Nice) and Muller (Sochaux).
    A particular case : the one of Roger Courtois, born in Lausanne, but who was a French international because endowed (like his teammate Lehmann) with the double-nationality.


    1945-1960 : THEY REVIVED FRENCH FOOTBALL


    AUSTRIA - Ernst MELCHIOR
    (very big pic of him with a defender lying at his feet and no ball around)
    The Austrian national team of the years 1951 to 1954 provided a strong quota of players to French football. If Melchior was one of the rare shock elements imported from Vienna, numerous were the the Austrian artists who gave lessons of technique, in this way Decker (Sochaux), Habitzl and Aurednik (Lens and Le Havre), Schlindlauer (Angers, Nantes), Happel (R.C Paris), Stojaspal (Strasbourg, Béziers, Troyes), Brinek (Monaco).

    ARGENTINA – Carlos SOSA
    (pic)
    The Argentine footballer seems destined by his technical and moral qualities (excellent mentality), to the role of professor or of boss. We can't deny the influence and the so valuable role of model that had Carniglia at Nice, Aballay and Vega at Nancy, Verdeal at Valenciennes, Conti at Monaco, Sosa at Racing, Di Loreto at Toulouse and Le Havre, Lorenzo at Nancy ; personnalities that Muro still has at Nancy as well as Ruben Bravo at Roubaix (after Nice, Aix, Grenoble and Rouen).

    DENMARK – Kaj CHRISTIANSEN
    (pic)
    There was also from the Danes an unquestionable technical supply. The technical fineness was the essential quality of a Christiansen (Lyon, Le Havre, Grenoble) of a Jensen (Lille, Marseille, Lyon, Troyes), of a Soerensen (Stade), of a Hansen (Nancy) or of a Bronee (Nancy). But there was also the inexhaustible Mathiesen (Stade, Le Havre) and the efficient Nielsen (Marseille).

    SWITZERLAND – Jackie FATTON
    (pic)
    Neighbours and friends, the Swiss people have made frequent travels to France. It is true that they most of the time benefit of the double-nationality. The three best Helvetian footballers imported were three forwards, internationals in their country, small by height but vivacious and deft : Tamimi (Lyon and Saint-Etienne), Fatton (Lyon), Eschmann (Red Star, Marseille, Stade).

    FINLAND – Aulis RYTKONEN
    (pic)
    Of the three Finnish who came in France, only one did not impose himself (Rykberg at Toulouse and at Sète). He was the lumberjack. The two others made a brilliant career thanks to their subtile touch of the ball and their sense of the game : Rytkonen at Toulouse, Lehtovirta at Red Star.

    Before ending this part, here is now a new insert which is about players from other coutries :


    //////
    There was, of course, many other transferts of foreign players post-war. It would take too much time to enumerate them all here. There was more than 400 ! Let's recall simply the well-known and the more unexpected.
    • HUNGARY : Etienne Nyers, François Nyers, Jules Nagy, André Nagy, Somlay.
    • GREAT BRITAIN : Curtis and Westwood, Taylor, Griffiths.
    • ICELAND : Gudmundsson.
    • LUXEMBOURG : Letsch, Libar, Kemp, Nurenberg.
    • YUGOSLAVIA : Nicolitch, Arengelovitch, Alempijevitch.
    • SPAIN : Molinuevo, Artigas, Caeiro.
    • GERMANY : Kreps, Schirschin, Jackstell.
    • PARAGUAY : Acosta, Ayala, Andrada.
    • LETTONIA : Arens, Vanags.
    • And the UNEXPECTED : the Bulgarian Antonov, the Turkish Lefter, the Russians Skocen and Stekiw, the Chilean Riera and the Haitian Gaetjens.
    ////////

    BRAZIL – Yeso AMALFI
    (very big pic : in contrast with the Melchior's pic, Amalfi is here about to strike the ball, in a perfectly balanced position of the body, with his arms well outstretched. It seems that he will use totally or partially the outside of the foot, the left. His right is a bit far from the ball though. It remains a bit special. In the end, on this pic, of course, nothing reveals if what he is doing is great or poor, it can be either way and we'll never know. But the main idea which is about elegance is here and let's say that it was an incredible action).
    The Brazilians expatriate less than their South Americans colleagues. In France they were rarer; the most marking was Yeso Amalfi (Nice, Racing, Marseille, Red Star), whose the technical virtuosity was rivaled by only his fantasy. With him, let's cite Brandaozinho (Monaco) and Zeglio (C.A.P).

    HOLLAND – Bertus de HARDER
    (pic)
    All the Dutchmen who tried their luck in our home before the establishment of the professionalism in Amsterdam and Rotterdam, did well. There was amongst them a mix of tempers and a clear distinction between the fighters (De Vroedt at Le Havre, De Kubber at Bordeaux, Van der Hart at Lille, Vreken at Nantes, Van Geen at Nantes, and most of all Appel at Reims) and the artists (De Harder at Bordeaux, Timmermans and Brandès at Nîmes, Carlier at Strasbourg and Monaco, Rijvers at Saint-Etienne).

    SWEDEN – Bror MELLBERG
    (pic)
    As Italy payed a fortune for the best Swedes (Liedholm, Jeppson, Gren, Nordahl, Skoglund, Hamrin), French football had to content itself in general with vigorous men, athletic, sometimes blind, always efficient. Apart from a Lundqvist who failed at Reims, the other Swedes brang to our teams freshness and punch : Mellberg (Toulouse, Red Star, Sochaux) ; Jonsson (Stade Français, Lens, Nancy) ; Johansson (Marseille) ; Eriksson (Toulouse, Grenoble) ; Bengtsson (Nice, Rennes) and Andersson (Marseille). The subtile Carlsson (Stade) and Hjalmarsson (Lyon, Nice, Troyes) constitute the exceptions.

    CZECHOSLOVAKIA – Pepi HUMPAL
    (pic)
    Czech football used to give two or three valubale elements like Karel (C.A.P), Finek (Saint-Etienne) and Jelinek (Toulouse). Bata-Zlin provided then three footballers combining the fineness and the efficiency : Dupal and Humpal (Sochaux), Michlovsky (Saint-Etienne). All three stood in France.

    This gallery of players goes with the « investigation of the month » which is about to know what think the different actors of French football (presidents, coaches, players) about to re-open the boundaries to the foreign players, them which are closed since 1955 (the object of another post maybe...globlally, if not unanimously, they were 'for', under some conditions very often too, of course...by the way only two were against, the president of the federation and the coach of Racing Paris).
    The following part is a last insert that features into this article. And it's about the foreign players who still play in France in 1960.



    16 SURVIVORS

    Like shagreen, the number of foreigners who are still performing into the French professional teams is decreasing before your very eyes. They are no more than 16. We cite here only the players formed abroad. Thus there is no question of the young nîmois Salaber born in Zaragoza, hence Spanish, but of French formation ! Who are these sixteen :
    The Argentines Ruben BRAVO (Roubaix), MURO (Nancy), the Brazilian CONSTANTINO (Nîmes), the Austrians STOJASPAL (Troyes), KOMINEK (Lens), SCHINDLAUER (Nantes), MATZKY (Valenciennes) ; the Dutchmen VAN RHYN (Stade), RIJVERS (St-Etienne), CARLIER (Monaco) ; the Swiss man ESCHMANN (Stade) ; the Swedes BRODD (Toulouse) and JOHANSSON (Aix) ; the Uruguayan BESSONART (Metz) ; the Welsh GRIFFITHS (Béziers) ; the Luxemburgese NURENBERG (Sochaux).

    One remark : on these sixteen players, thirteen are forwards.

    Then 6 players have their pic and a short or condensate description :


    Pirès said CONSTANTINO (Nîmes)

    A Brazilian who is a perfect technician and an ideal teammate yet.

    Yngve BRODD (Toulouse)

    A Swede who possesses a great liveliness in his runs and in his shots.

    Santiago BESSONART (Uruguay)

    An Uruguayan who starts to give his team his talents of dribbler.

    Victor NURENBERG (Luxembourg)

    A Luxemburgese who won all the titles with Nice, before to move to Sochaux.

    Kees RIJVERS (Saint-Etienne)

    A Dutch man whose the wrongfoots and the glance have made and still make the heyday of Saint-Etienne.

    Ruben BRAVO (Nice)

    An Argentine who plays the teachers at CORT, after Nice, Aix, Grenoble and Rouen.


    Some notes :
    - The players who joined France during the Civil War in Spain were not cited by France Football and we mainly think about Valle, Luis and also his brother Joaquin, without really forgetting about the celebrities of the time Samitier and Zamora, all at OGC Nice. It was in a particulat context. Luis Valle stood longer and scored many goals for the red and black.
    - The list is not exhaustive of course but the most important players have been cited (except for the Spanish who have migrated to France between 1936-37 and 1939, as seen previously). There was way more Yugoslavian and Hungarian players than that ! But as precised in the article many of them became French.
    - It is not developped much into the « Frenches of import » paragraph but Pedro (or Pierre) Duhart was seen as an exquisite dribbler with his undelating moves but yet with much balance. This is what we can read in another article from the same issue which is about the « dribblers ».
    - By the way, the Paraguayan José Parodi joined his fellow country-man Andrada at Nîmes in the following season. It's an example, for the new ones who came in 61-62 along with "re-open borders". His name comes easily to mind as there has not been dozens of Paraguayan in the French league, even if a good number finally.

    I take the permission to recall that some of these players there have their profiles into the two following threads :
    'Wingers of Yesterday & Today'
    'Inside-forwards of Yesterday & Today'
    Always from France Football.

    The different profiles for a same player complete each other and these articles were published around two years later so it must countain a couple of new foreigners who went to France after the 1959-1960 season.

    Well, a last note : Oskar Rohr was the great-uncle of Gernot Rohr, the defensive midfielder formed at Bayern who made his career at Girondins de Bordeaux as a player then also as a coach for some periods of time which were the promotion in D2 in 1992 and the second half of the 1995-96 season with the UEFA Cup Final against his very first club) and who has the double-nationality, German-French.
     
    msioux75, Gregoriak and babaorum repped this.
  23. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Great info, thanks

    About the "hungarians", I think Bradac is the czech Vojtech Bradác

    Of the argentines not mentioned, a great player but past his prime due to injuries was Guillermo Stabile, also other internationals as Mario Evaristo, Volante and Sbarra

    Brazilians not mentioned, the keeper Jaguare Vasconcellos and half Fernando Guidicelli, both internationals.

    Internationals from Paraguay: Leongino Unzain and Milner Ayala.

    Also the peruvian international from the 50s, Alberto Loret de Mola :)
     
  24. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    #74 wm442433, Sep 12, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2016
    That's right, about Bradac. I guess that they associated him with Szabo and Hungary as it was the 'power-duo of the team' in terms of technique. Amongst the Czechoslovakian players, Ferdinand Faczinek is missing too, for example (FC Sochaux, FC Chamois Niortais).
    I don't know how they missed Stabile. Maybe because his French career is splitted between D1 and D2, or that it was even most of all D2, where he helped more. Because he did not always play (injuries yes, he was not young for a footballer, moreover at this time, to be honest) so maybe they did not see him on match reports if they have consulted some. He is present in the D1 top scorer ranking only once (with 10 goals in 35-36). He was player-coach most of all before to become simply coach I see now.
    They missed Evaristo right. The others I did not know (I must do researches on them...the name of Sbarra yes, maybe, but Volante it's the first time that I see it, I would remember otherwise normally).

    Vasconcellos is mentionned under the sections "Spaniards" (with Diaz, Uruguay, Red Star). He'd deserseved a whole article only on him and it must have been done in another issue, here his name is just thrown like that.
    Guidicelli is a name that slightly rings a bell, but not for his exploits in France as you might guess. Not really searched much things on him for now, it just seems that he actually finished his career in D1 at FC Antibes (7 personal goals in D1, 13th/16= saved from rel., 10th the next year without him). As for his spell at Bordeaux circa 34-35, I don't know which Bordeaux it was, what club exactly (did not search more than wiki on this point for now), or how long exactly too ... yeah, looks like he arrived here by the sea, maybe played a couple of matches and that's all. Probably at Hispano-Bastidienne Bordeaux in D2 (unless it was with Girondins in the lower divisions, or another club from Bordeaux, but the H-B Bordeaux seems to be the most probable for several reasons).

    In spite of a 15-years French career, the Paraguayan Unzain is not mentionned indeed. Ayala is.

    ALM is apparently the first Peruvian ever in the Ligue 1. And incidentally in La Liga I see also.

    Once again it is not exhaustive so some Spaniards pre-war, or Yugoslavian and Hungarians*, naturalized or not, are not cited.

    Thanks for the complementary infos. And the correction on Bradac.


    ///
    * like Sas (probably naturalized) or also Acht (gk) at Red Star Paris Saint-Ouen in the 30s. Always at Red Star, there was another Uruguayan than Diaz : Fenamore. Scottish players too : Edmunds, Turley. The Argentine Scopelli...
    Other British players too, and Spaniards. The club was champion of D2 in 1939. Before that they made D1, D2, D1, D2. Red Star counted on many foreign players, it was the true "cosmopolitan team". Only with this club we could add two dozens of names easily.
     
    msioux75 repped this.
  25. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    A video that shows some plays of Glenn Hoddle at AS Monaco:

     

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