You mean Luis Oliveira? He was the one that played at France 98. I've seen some footage of Weber and he was really dodgy. I can't believe Belgium capped him, even Croatia. Strupar isn't a Top 30 player and I don't think he is worthy of being in the Top 50.
That's go to be saying something. Nilis vs Wilmots? I'd pick Wilmots. Nilis was a class act at Anderlecht and PSV but international football is the hardest level to play in and your form for your nation is what most players are remembered for (Di Stefano, Best and a few others are the exception). Wilmots shone better at major tornaments.
Vicenzo Scifo. He is the all-time hero of Belgian football. I really liked him. He is very clever and he is extremely fearful player.
Guys, guys, guys...I can't believe the lack of consideration from you all about the fantastic player that was Juan LOZANO. He gave brilliant football to all belgian eyes, he could decide a match alone, he was just excellent. After all these years, I cannot understand why, you guys, declined belgian naturalization to one of the best football player of all time, but give naturalization easy as 1-2-3 to any thieft from below the mediterranean sea... I have seen Juan to play in 1983 and I have seen gifted player right away. He's on my top ten of all time... Thank you Juan {i'm going to cry...bouhouhhhh...}
I only know that he played Anderlecht's 1983 UEFA Cup win and that he never played in a major tornament for Belgium.
Lozano is anderlecht's greatest player ever, together with Rensenbrink. But his naturalisation was declined after some political issues i think. He was raised in Antwerp though. If he would have played for the national team, he would probably number one on this list
I agree 100%, and it is very sad to me just thinking about not having a Belgian Juan LOZANO with the Belgian team in Mexico in '86...just think about it...
Scifo had the vision of the game, like few players. He could play with the eyes shut and find the right partner. He played for and with the team. I don't believe he could decide the match though. Maradona didn't have the same vision, even it was on higher level though. But Lozano, like Maradona, could decide a match. They could take the ball at half field, dribbled 5-6 player and go alone to score. This freedom to play is rarely, if ever, encouraged by coaches. Maradona and Lozano were 2 players who could play with the b*****ks of the other team players, and all these players could do is watch them...
Here's the top-50 list from Jan Wauters the famous football-journalist from the Flemish public radio BRT(N). He was journalist from 1966 until late 90' in the Belgian competetition,Europacups and attented in 8 Worldchampionships... This is the list from his book Top 100 of the Belgian football (1998) 1. Jef Mermans 2. Paul Van Himst 3. Wilfried Van Moer 4.Jan Ceulemans 5. Rik Coppens 6. Laurent Verbiest 7. Jef Jurion 8 .Christian Piot 9. Ludo Coeck 10.Rene Vandereycken 11.Eric Gerets 12.Franky Van der Elst 13.Jean-Marie Pfaff 14.Torke Lemberechts 15.Wilfried Puis 16.Erwin Vandenbergh 17.Franky Vercauteren 18.Vic Mees 19.Pierre Hanon 20.Enzo Scifo 21.Michel Preud'homme 22.Raoul Lambert 23.Marc Degryse 24.Frans Van der Elst 25.Luc Nilis 26.Nico Dewalque 27.Jean Nicolay 28.Paul Vandenbergh 29.Fons Van Brandt 30.Fernand Goyvaerts 31.George Grun 32.Pol Anoul 33.Jacky Stockman 34.Denis Houf 35.Odilon Polleunis 36.Freddy Chaves 37.Luis Oliveira 38.George Heylens 39.Walter Meeuws 40.Rie Meert 41.Louis Carre 42.Michel Renquin 43.Philippe Albert 44.Erwin Van den Daele 45.Lorenzo Staelens 46.Marc Wilmots 47.Gilbert Van Binst 48.Johnny Thio 49.Martin Lippens 50.Leo Clijsters
Here is another list from Dutch journalist Jan Mulder (formaly forward from Anderlecht in the late 60' -begin of 70') and with 5-caps for the Dutch national team. He still lifes in Belgium and follows the Belgian competition through the years. Here's his list for the magazine HUMO (2000 ?) 1. Paul Van Himst 2. Rik Coppens 3. Raymond Braine 4.Jef Mermans 5. Juan Lozano 6. Jef Jurion 7. Laurent Verbiest 8. Wilfried Van Moer 9. Vic Meeus 10.Jan Ceulemans 11.Luc Nilis 12.Wilfried Puis 13.Erwin Vandenbergh 14.Ludo Coeck 15.Enzo Scifo 16.Jean Nicolay 17.Frans Van der Elst 18.Torke Lamberechts 19.Roger Claessens 20.Jean-Marie Pfaff 21.Franky Vercauteren 22.Paul Vandenberg 23.Pol Anoul 24.George Heylens 25.Martin Lippens Just doesnt make it in his top-25 list : In random order - Van Vaerenbergh - Vernimmen - Raoul Lambert - Arsene Vaillant - Rie Meert - Jean Trappeniers - Badjou - Armand Seghers - Daenen - Verstappen - Gernay - Christian Piot - Michel Preud'homme - Stanley Van den Eynde - Pierre Hanon - Frits Van den Boer - Jean Cornelis - Lon Polleunis - Johan Devrindt - George Grun - Nico Dewalque - Voorhoof - Swartenbroecks - Capelle - Rik de Saedeleer - Rene Vandereycken - Denis Houf - Gilles Van Binst - Henri Depirieux - Jacky Stockman - Stan Huysmans - Louis Carre - Franky Van der Elst - Luis Oliveira - Eric Gerets
What makes Lozano better than Scifo? Just look to Jan Mulders' list ! # 5 Juan Lozano #15 Enzo Scifo IMO Lozano is better coz he could really read the game better than Scifo and gave plenty assists to his teammates. He's also a great dribbler and didnt know which foot was his best,the left or the right ? Fabulous ballfeeling and very elegant midfielder which carreer was twice interupted by 2very serious injuries. Once in his season by Real Madrid and the last time by Anderlecht. The last injury cost him the end of his carreer on the highest level... By the way : He wasnt included in the list of Jan Wauters coz he's a Spaniard, sadly enough never been capped for the national team... Should we have won the WC '86 (with Belgium) ?
Scifo should be in the Top Three in all lists of Belgian players. IMO, he's number one though. Gerets should be a Top Ten in all Belgian players' lists too.
I always wonder what the criteria for selection are. In a way I believe that international succes is elementary to be in the list, so that is what makes Van Moer greater than Coppens and should put Gerets higher up in the list than Voorhoof. In '86 Pfaff was the best goalie of the world, can any of the other players say they were the best at something? On the other hand, football is a team sport and your succes depends to a large extent on your teammates. And to answer your question: Yes, I do believe that Belgium could have won the final in '86 if three things had happened: 1. Lozano was allowed to play 2. Vandenbergh had stayed in Mexico instead of consulting a Belgian hospital 3. the referee hadn't blown his whistle on two separate occasions in the semis for offsides that never were.
dor02 quoted : 'Gerets should be a Top Ten in all Belgian players' lists too' I am agree with that quotation,at least he must be in a top 25...he's not even there in Jan Mulder's list... Nico Claesen was #82 in the top100 from Jan Wauters and Gilles De Bilde #99. Which players from this generation 'Rode Duivels' should be included in the top 50 list? Only Timmy Simons (PSV) ?? Or should we included more players from this time ?
The Belgian players of recent times have been disappointing. Maybe Simons has a claim but van Buyten can be erratic and with all due respect, Belgium has been disappointing since USA 94. WC 2002 was an exception but Belgian soccer isn't like it was in the 80s and early 90s. What do you think of Claesen being ranked lowly? I honestly don't know much about his club career but he was impressive at Mexico 86.
dor02 quoted : ' What do you think of Claesen being ranked lowly? I honestly don't know much about his club career but he was impressive at Mexico 86.' I think the consideration of Jan Wauters was...He never really make it by the top teams he's played for :Vfb Stuttgart and Tottenham Hotspurs. And aside from his good WC'86 he didnt really perform well in the other tournaments he's playing for the national team. Euro'84:he played in the 3 games of Belgium first (and only)round :0 goals. WC '90 : 1 game also no goal. But maybe its too low #82...I should put him somewhere between #30 and #50,coz when I see the standard of the other players between that spots... After all he was topscorer of the Belgian league (1984) with 27 goals (in 32 games) with his team Seraing where he was a great duo with Jules Bocande(Senegal) and a threat to the defenders. And 12 goals in 36 caps for the Belgian national team isnt so bad either...
dor02 quoted ; ' The Belgian players of recent times have been disappointing. Maybe Simons has a claim but van Buyten can be erratic and with all due respect, Belgium has been disappointing since USA 94. WC 2002 was an exception but Belgian soccer isn't like it was in the 80s and early 90s.' Im totally agree with you,sad enough... Euro'96 : not qualified. WC'98 : poor performance and out in the first round. Euro2000 :automatically qualified as host but out in the first round Euro'04 :not qualified WC'06 :not qualified Euro'08 : probably not qualified again The only exception WC'02 : they beat the very strong Czech Republic (Koller,Nedved,Baros..) in their qualifiergames ! (two wins home & away) Endtournament :they almost beaten Brasil (the later WC) in the second round The problem IMO : some players are just good ,others just average on their positions on international level. Look also at the results from Anderlecht/Club Brugge in the CL from last decennium,really poor results... The other teams are satisfied now when they've draw a Belgian team,unlike in the '70 & '80 when they have fear for them...(Anderlecht-Club Brugge-Standard) and on some periods even smaller teams make it the topteams very difficult and even kick them out (KV Mechelen-Waregem)
simons in the top 50 is total madness. he played at club brugge, that team doesn't mean anything on a world level, and the role of the water carrier at PSV (which you can hardly call a top club in europe, despite their Chelseaplayers) doesn't stand out neither. It's ridiculous for a country if a player with the profile of Simons is in the top 50-list of "best players ever". Just like Jan Wauters' list : franky van der elst appeared before scifo in that list. Is he having a laugh ? The guy is an absolute no-brainer, his last appearances on "Studio 1" proved that. If there's one player of the current generation, that should be in the list, it's without any competition, Vincent Kompany. You don't have to have had the palmares of Gerets to be in this list