So you are saying the young players we are sending to Europe are considerably better than the ones who start off in MLS?
I don't know whether the numbers would change, but the advantage of Europe is that a player should have an easier time finding the highest level at which he can get games. Maybe that level is B1. Maybe it's B2. Maybe it's Scandinavia. Gall started in the Swedish 3rd division But he made it work.
Hmm Other than maybe Carleton and maybe Adams most of the best U20 ish players went straight to Europe. The argument is would Pulisic, Weah McKennie etc get minutes in MLS. I think they would because they are better than almost all MLS players their age.
There has to be a commitment to play youth. Curtin initially wasn't comfortable going with all the young players, but he got his marching orders. Besides, he wasn't going to be given much else to work. NYRB boots out the older guys to make room for up and coming players. Other teams use young guys strictly as substitute fodder. W/re to the NT, JK spoke of the need for the young players to 'kick out' the older guys. I don't agree with that approach.
They are better because they gave them an opportunity in Europe and trusted them. We see here, and I'll use Carleton as an example, players do good in the little few minutes they give them and then are benched for the entire season. We just need coaches who trust youth so they can give them an opportunity.
Carleton isn't a great example as not only has he recently turned 18 but ATL are loaded with attacking talent.
What about Palmer-Brown? Durkin? I'd consider Pomykal and Ferreira to be top-tier. In younger age groups, players like Bello and Scally are among the best in their age group, and we'll have to see how much they play in the next season or two. I think its mostly 50/50 where they start out.
Yes, ATL is loaded but can't compare to how loaded Dortmund was when Pulisic was given trust and minutes until he proved what he was made of. Look at Weah, at the same age as these others MLS youth, is being trusted and PSG is one of the best teams in the world. Yet, they trust him. Diego Lainez also at 18 years old is a starter for America in Liga MX. Jonathan Gonzalez was given trust since last year. And yet here in MLS most teams, not all, don't play with American youth because age is a factor to them. I would understand if the kid sucks and that is why they don't play them but some are very good yet aren't followed upon by giving them more playing time.
Pulisic had 10 goals and 8 assists in 15 games with Dortmund's U17 team. He had 28 goals in 34 games with the US U17s. Has Carleton been that type of player? He had 4 goals in 11 games with US U17s. He has 1 goal in 9 games with ATL2.
Those stats for Carleton must be wrong for the US U17’s. Off the top of my head, he had 4 goals in the WC and qualifying alone, let alone wrecking teams in the Nike friendlies
I checked US Soccer. Carleton had 6 goals and 5 assists in 15 games with the US U17s. That's better. Now if he can pick do this with ATL2...
Those stats aren't correct. US Soccer lists him with 20G, 12A in 2978 minutes. 40 games. The stats also don't always paint a great picture. Weah only had 9 goals. Aye Akinola had 26 goals. If you played a full two seasons in the residency program, you had a better chance to put up bigger statistical numbers. Also, his play and stats in the biggest tournaments were certainly on par (maybe even better) than what Pulisic did. In the U-17 WC, if we are counting MLS assists (and you should if you look at how vital those plays were. 0:05, 0:55 in first video, 1:20 in second video), he scored or assisted (primary or secondary) on the last eight goals at the tournament for the team. In total at that tournament (counting secondary/MLS assists), he had 2G, 6A in 420 minutes against the best players in his age group in the world. That total of 8 goals he contributed to (with a counting stat) was double what anyone else on the team had. In qualifying, he had 2G, 2A in 383 minutes, including our only goal in the final against Mexico in a game everyone in the YNT section was in agreement he was by far the best player on the field. During the two years he played with the U-17's at the Nike Friendlies (the biggest non-competitive tournament the team plays in all year), he compiled 6G, 1A in 439 minutes. With the Atlanta United first team, he has 1G, 2A in 274 minutes. That doesn't include the Martinez goal against DC that he didn't get credit for an assist because it took a deflection, despite him providing the goal. The Atlanta United 2 stats are faulty, as well. He should be listed with two goals. The USL website didn't give him credit for a deflected goal that should count. The scorer in the stadium gave him credit, but USL thought they knew better. In those games, they only scored 7 total goals. The team is rotten. It paints an incorrect picture just to go off of stats in that team. They can't advance the ball out of their half, so Carleton barely gets the ball in attacking positions, nor does he play with teammates who understand his movements, passes, decisions. He's mostly checking into the CM circle all game to cycle the ball around before another one of them makes too slow of a decision or can't complete a forward pass. Watch the games, and you'll see this.
I am not saying Carleton is better than Pulisic. All I am saying is that you need opportunity to showcase what you are made of. A thing we rarely see in MLS. And that example of Carleton in AU2 is not a good comparison when going by stats alone. AU2 is just a bad team and he can't do everything. Look at Messi in Barcelona and then compare him to how he plays for Argentina. Messi plays better with Barcelona because he is surrounded by better players compared to when he is playing for Argentina. It is like night and day when he plays for both country and club. If we go by stats, Messi sucks with Argentina and excels with Barcelona. And Carleton isn't my only concern, it is that youth here in the US aren't provided with the trust and opportunities that they do in other way better leagues.
I can see both sides. If he stays, he will train with the best players in the world but will play against minnow. If he played for a lesser team in the majors, he hopefully play against the best players in the world and would see what top level game speed is like (as opposed to at practice).
If he gets spot minutes, maybe a start or two when others are rested, trains with a plethora of great players, gets guided by one of the best coaches in the business that loves to get young players on the field; this season will be an outstanding success. He's young enough that he does not need to be an everyday player yet. If in another two or three years, he's not able to become a regular, then he will need to get more field time. But, right now, he's at a top club with the best surroundings, seems determined to make his mark there. Let him hang around and have at it. He certainly seems to have the mentality that wants to stay and fight for his minutes. Let him fail before casting him out. Maybe the stars will align and he will succeed. He's certainly worked to get into position to try and sounds from all accounts like he wants to be there.
Also, can't predict what will happen with time, but Weah has been a textbook example of what a player has to do to win minutes. So often I see people advocating that this or that player would be productive if the coaches trusted them, gave them more minutes. How can he show what he's worth in garbage time? He'd be so much better if the team did x,y, z. If he played all the time he'd be a star, etc... Weah has been showing how it's done. You want to win minutes as an attacker, put up numbers when you come on late. Make plays, score goals, make it hard for them to leave you behind. That's how players grow into important parts of a team and win spots. Expecting a coach to hand a player anything will not get a player anywhere. When you get a chance, even a small one, you have to take it. I'm firmly in the corner of any player who does exactly that. It's early days before and soccer is filled with young guys who make a splash and fade away. But so far, so good for Weah.
But what would it do to his game, playing with teammates who can't get him the ball, because they are a middling club bunkering and playing defense first most of the time.?
Youth #'s are important in youth play. Maturation process and the whole 'heart' thing surface later. Weah didn't peak in U17's. Many do however. The young Americans we're talking about in Europe are still getting better every week. The ones sitting on pine in MLS are not getting better. At all.
There are always exceptions. Big, athletic CB's will get more looks than spindly, undersized and slowish mids however.
Euro teams are scooping up young players left and right, spindly or not. Small guys can't improve with practice and USL play?
And it killed the careers of McBean, Jaime and Jose Villareal, Raul Mendiola, BJIV (at 21 he could still be a pro, but it's unlikely), and dozens of other prospects big and small. Because, unsurprisingly, sitting on the bench at an MLS team =/= sitting on the bench at at bigger European team. MLS's relatively low bar of skill should be an opportunity for even raw, younger players, to get first team experiences. Instead, many promising players waste away in favor of mediocre players 10-15 years older. Which isn't bad if you win a few more games than you would have, but when you try to sign prospects and they won't sign with you... we should all recognize why...
BJIV had concussion issues. McBean is a regular with Colorado. The Villareals got time in USL. Or maybe some of those guys just weren't good enough. If the skill is relatively low then those guys should have dominated in the minutes given them.