Timmy and Donovan don't walk alone: Merseyside Derby 2/6, 7:45am

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad Gameday' started by YankatOxford, Feb 5, 2010.

  1. StillKickin

    StillKickin Member+

    Dec 17, 2002
    Texas
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh, please. Jozy has been there how long? And yet Donovan scored before he did. Comparisons are futile and absolutely unnecessary.

    Anybody who says Donovan hasn't done very well at Everton just has an agenda.
     
  2. arkjayback

    arkjayback Member

    Mar 29, 2008
    Le Mars, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not to mention that strictly "looking at the numbers" gets you almost nowhere in soccer. Even if you're looking at how many goals are scored by a player or team, there are still so many other factors involved; e.g. Bradley's 15 goals at Heerenveen.
     
  3. propeller74

    propeller74 Member

    Sep 15, 2008
    LA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    I'll take you up on your beer, but honestly: "We lost, so what?" Does that sum up the passion of the Toffee supporter?

    "There's not much to tell between the two sides anymore." Except 12 pts. in the table.

    I do like Baines though...
     
  4. propeller74

    propeller74 Member

    Sep 15, 2008
    LA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed. In 18 games Jozy has created, what 8 chances? (5 assists & 3 pk drawn). Hull has a been great for him, but the comparison to Donovan is unnecessary. Donovan has come into a much better club and immediately been inserted into the starting XI. He has shown well in most games. You may not like him, but you can't deny him that.
     
  5. Arteta's Girl

    Arteta's Girl Member

    Sep 29, 2008
    Liverpool, UK
    Club:
    Everton FC
    With a fully fit squad from the start of the season I'm in no doubts we would be right up there with you. Losing players - key players - for months and months at a time is always going to hold a team like us back. I don't think any other team could of coped missing the calibre of individuals we missed for extended periods at the start of the year.

    Arteta, Jagielka, Yakubu (he was still out), Pienaar, Neville, Osman, Rodwell, Distin, Yobo, Gosling, Anichebe, Vaughan (all missing for a minimum of a month!) - not to mention Neill and Heitinga were unavailable for European games. With an already small squad, we were asking out of form players to play every week. Little wonder our results didn't come.
     
  6. kjksccr

    kjksccr Member

    Feb 25, 1999
    San Carlos, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought he played fine in a scrappy match. Liverpool hasn't played that hard all season (well Kuyt does every game). I thought what hurt Everton was that they have relied on those layoffs from Cahill a lot to move the ball forward and Liverpool were very good in the air and winning 50/50 balls. Fellaini was going to be off in this game sooner or later so no reason to wonder what could have been. He really needs to control himself. He could have easily just stepped over that tackle. Peinnar, usually more of a playmaker, got caught up in it the physical battles and lost focus.

    Everyone likes to win but nutmegging an Argentine international is some solace. ;)
     
  7. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    They're two Americans, attacking players both, playing in the Prem. Seems a perfect opportunity to make reasonable comparisons.

    My main point though is that most attackers are judged primarily on the numbers like goals, assists, and fouls drawn. Wayne Rooney isnt getting the orgiastic hype over the little 'Landon Donovan' type things that Big Soccer loves. More relevent to the US pool Altidore is creating goals at a rate of one every other 90 minutes. And he's doing it on considerably poorer resourced squad than Everton. If he continues to improve he'll be with a bigger club within 2 years.

    If LD is going to get that move the productivity needs to pick up. Brian McBride scored 4 goals in 8 appearances on loan with Everton.
     
  8. Stogey23

    Stogey23 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 12, 1998
    San Diego, CA
  9. HouseHead78

    HouseHead78 Member+

    Oct 17, 2006
    Austin, TX
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Donovan is a very good and willing attacker, but he's playing at right midfield, so comparisons with out and out strikers are useless, IMO.
     
  10. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Agreed if the basis of were x flanker's numbers need to be equal to those y striker, which wasn't my assertion.
     
  11. StillKickin

    StillKickin Member+

    Dec 17, 2002
    Texas
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's so funny. I've read various written articles about the game, read comments on numerous message boards and even the comments here on bigsoccer.

    I just came across this comment in this blog and finally had to say something:

    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4897016&name=nevins_conor

    So okay. This guy faults him for staying out wide too much. I've read other comments criticizing him for NOT staying out wide enough.

    So which is it? Should he have stayed out wide more or come inside more?

    And which did he actually do? I thought he did both....tried staying out wide when necessary and tried to move inside when necessary and then got switched up top, I think, and tried to get in the box.

    I think the comments are so fitting. Seems no matter what he does, it's just not going to be enough, it's not the right thing and he shoulda done something else.

    It's commical. :)
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Only the Kool Aid sippers would read 'Donovan needs to pick up his productivity to improve his chances of a transfer' as an attack on the player.
     
  13. jcsd

    jcsd Member+

    Jan 27, 2006
    No argument that he's doing well.

    What he adds is his pace and dribbling abilty. Donovan is an excellent crosser/passer, but Everton have a number of those players. What they don't have anyone who is nearly as much an archetypal pacey winger as Donovan, that's why he's managed to ease himself into the first XI so quickly. When you know a player is adding something to the team (and what Donovan adds is pace and the old-fashioned abilty to take the ball past players) that no-one else in the squad can it's difficult to leave them on the bench.
     
  14. delo_pata

    delo_pata Member

    Jan 12, 2001
    Durham, NC
    And if he stays, hopefully they will come to understand how to use him best. He's doing fine out wide, but there have been at least two occasions per match where he made a nice break beyond the left back into acres of space only to be completely ignored.
     
  15. cklab

    cklab Member

    Jan 3, 2008
    Dallas
    When's the DVD coming out?
     
  16. HouseHead78

    HouseHead78 Member+

    Oct 17, 2006
    Austin, TX
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I prefer pinot grigio to kool-aid, so maybe this isn't meant for me. I didn't read what you wrote as an attack; I read it as an arbitrary and strange comparison between a right mid and a couple of strikers. I understand that you didn't intend that now, but that's how it read.

    What is a kool-aid sipper, by the way, in this instance? Does this mean that if someone doesn't agree with you that they must have been brainwashed?

    There's no cult leader trying to brainwash anyone - opinions are being debated on a message board. Those who don't agree with you haven't necessarily lost all ability to think independently.
     
    1 person likes this.
  17. StillKickin

    StillKickin Member+

    Dec 17, 2002
    Texas
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He might have been referring to me because I accused him of having an agenda but I have since deleted the post because it wasn't necessary and detracts from this thread.
     
  18. Aaryque

    Aaryque Member

    Apr 26, 2007
    Norcal
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's taking a pretty dim view of the quality of scouting and coaching in the premier league to think that players are judged solely on the most superficial of stats.

    Oh, and producing a goal or assist every 2.5 matches is quite good for an outside midfielder. And while it is a very small sample size, considering his opposition so far and short time with the squad, I would only expect his rate to go up over a full season.
     
  19. wsmaugham

    wsmaugham Member

    Apr 3, 2002
    Chicago
    Donovan is not playing as a forward. Couple that with Moyes' defensive stance (when one winger pushes forward the other lays back to cover) and the propensity for most attacks going up the left side of the field and you'd have to have an agenda of some kind to not recognize that Landon has been used for more than "stats". Or you could just consider that multiple English sources have called him a great get, seamlessly fitting in right from the start, and according to one prominent pundit (Lawrenson) the best winter transfer of the season.

    Edit: Noticed your post about not meaning to compare a forward to a midfielder... and yet you compared his "numbers" to not one but two forwards.
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. lplaksina

    lplaksina Member

    Jan 5, 2002
    I have followed Donovan's career since he played with the U-17's in France. He has always struck me as an honest, heady player. It has also been obvious that many people who post here have little or no knowledge of the game. I suggest that you ignore the naysayers, and enjoy his career.

    Donovan could put US soccer on his back, WALK across the Atlantic, single handedly beat Man U, Arsenal, AND Chelsea in a 5 day period, score 10 goals in the process, and then fix the economical problems which have been imposed on our society by those that want ALL the money, and 60% of BS posters would still have criticisms of his efforts.
     
  21. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Suggesting a player might need to up his production to improve the odds of a transfer is equivalent to accusing the player of child molestation. Only on Big Soccer. Hopefully LD isn't so hypersensitive.
     
  22. Martin Fischer

    Martin Fischer Member+

    Feb 23, 1999
    Kampala. Uganda
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This might be the type of argument one makes when one has spent years posting on BS that Donovan isn't all good - self interest talking.
     
  23. jcsd

    jcsd Member+

    Jan 27, 2006
    I think IndividualEleven does have a point. Take the Altidore thread where we continually hear how he drew a penalty in x game. I remember one of the one of the penalites he drew. It wa just a crap and unnecessary bit of play by the opposition defender against Altidore who wasn't in a particualry dangerous postion, no-one should be giving Altidore loads of credit for that.

    Howver, Donovan will be playing mostly as a winger for Everton this seaosn, he may find one or two occasions where he's played as a striker, but wingers don't have to score bagfuls of goals to do well.

    Donovan had some of the best plays of this game, though at the same time he did little inbetween. That's how most managers will be judging him. They will be looking at what he can do and his overall contribution to the game, not that this was his best or worst game so far.

    In my mind Donovan's already proved he can play for a good Premiership club, it's just a case of how much the MLS are going to try and milk him for as much money as they can get.
     
  24. StillKickin

    StillKickin Member+

    Dec 17, 2002
    Texas
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Landon has drawn quite a few free kicks. Being a winger, that's the equivalent of a forward drawing PKs, IMO.

    As you said, he's proven he can play in the EPL. I've been focusing on Everton buying him in the summer, but perhaps other clubs will come calling. Although I'd rather it be Everton. I'm counting on a buy-out clause or at least MLS being reasonable.
     
  25. Sachin

    Sachin New Member

    Jan 14, 2000
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Wow. Nearly 800 posts and not a single hubcap joke. We're slipping people.
     

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