Threadbare Game Reports

Discussion in 'Vancouver Whitecaps' started by hot potato, Mar 12, 2017.

  1. saltyBugR

    saltyBugR Red Card

    vancouver whitecaps
    Canada
    Oct 23, 2017
    thx- being marooned on a soccer island is not good for one's soul

    starting ibini over hurtado, and nosa over tchani were both strange player selections- would you agree ?? both were ineffective in the game and, in fact, were part of the reason that the timbers overpowered in the MF- its all about ball possession- once again, the Caps had somewhere near 40%- we have gotten away with that for too long and now its time to pay the piper

    simply put- if you dont control the ball in the MF, you dont control the game
     
  2. Kingston

    Kingston Member+

    Oct 6, 2005
    I'm happy to see the Whitecaps win. It's a long shot but we're still on track for an all Canadian MLS Cup.
     
  3. hot potato

    hot potato Member+

    Feb 21, 2014
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    GAME VS SAN JOSE, OCTOBER 25-- 5-0

    1. Yup- thats right-- 5-0- WOW! WOW! WOW! WOW! WOW!

    2. The play of the match-
    goalie marinovic's great save on a free kick was a stunner- up to that point of the game, the Caps were listless, tight and seemed overcome by nerves; stefan had a very solid night, rebounding from a weak perfomance in portland 3 days earlier

    3. MOTM- one could say every Whitecap player, but for me, marcel de jong played a blinder of a game and for the first 20 minutes, he seemed the only field player for the Caps that any energy and wasnt overcome by the drama of the playoff game- he didnt put a foot wrong all night

    4. Set up- the whitecap coaches led by robo should all be given pay raises- it isnt just lady luck for all their set piece goals- its working on the pieces over and over again, the players buying into and executing the plan and the results show magic- the first goal by montero was a prime example of how set pieces on corner kicks are done... and then it was onward and upward

    5. The second coming of giovinco- the free kick goal by techera was as good ad it gets and no goalie in the world would have got that one- it was as good as gio's free kick goal in atlanta

    6. Spot-on- coach robo got the line-up spot on- tchani, de jong, and techera dramatically improved our team on the night; shea and mezquida were spot-on subs; while reyna had an average night, the rest of the team hummed along after the first goal

    7. Juiced up!!!!!!!!!- the series vs seattle should be inspiring stuff- bring it on !!
     
  4. saltyBugR

    saltyBugR Red Card

    vancouver whitecaps
    Canada
    Oct 23, 2017
    good analysis of the game, but i would give MOTM award to kendall waston- his play this year has been inspiring and robo was 100% correct in having him as the team captain

    IMO, kendall is the MLS top defender- a beast on defence and gets goals on set pieces- i cant think of 1 other MLS defender who can match that double whammy on an opponent
     
  5. OldFan2015

    OldFan2015 Member

    Nov 29, 2015
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    De Jong was a stud out there.

    Dr Salty, Techera was injured but Carl kept him on. Do you feel this will affect his performance Sunday.
     
  6. saltyBugR

    saltyBugR Red Card

    vancouver whitecaps
    Canada
    Oct 23, 2017
    if its a sore/tight hamstring or extended knee or calf injury, it might be wise to rest him on sunday- all 3 injuries will definitely hamper his play on sunday and, in fact, the injury might become worse during the game and then into the return match in seattle

    start brek shea who looked good as a sub and use davies as a sub- only use techera IF he has a full recovery by sunday

    otherwise, keep the lineup the same, altough i could see jacobson on for tchani
     
  7. hot potato

    hot potato Member+

    Feb 21, 2014
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    GAME VS SEATTLE OCTOBER 29- 0-0

    1. The score says it all-
    the scoreless draw says it all - watching it was like eating stale cheese (although the atlanta-columbus game was an exception)

    2. The best part of the stalemate game- the crowd was amazing- the best Whitecap soccer atmosphere since the 1979 whitecap playoff run

    3. The worst part of the game- listening to the 2 nerdy young men behind me who talked like they were at a teen girls' pajama party

    4. The best shot on goal- kendall waston's miskick that went off the vancouver post and thats all we need to remember about the game

    5. MOTM- CD kendall waston- the best defender in MLS, but probably wont get the nod because he plays in a canadian city

    6. Still juiced- the return match in seattle on thursday should be spectacular- spaghetti and red wine with my son in front of the telly
     
  8. ChrisSSBB

    ChrisSSBB Member+

    Jun 22, 2005
    DE
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good summary and had to laugh at #3. Been there, done that.

    I wasn't expecting much attack with the line-up they had, but Vancouver players looked kind of tight with their touches and passes making it even worse.

    A goal in Seattle will go a long way.
     
  9. hot potato

    hot potato Member+

    Feb 21, 2014
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    the worst part of their loud, giggling banter is that it was about anything other than the game and even with that, it was about nothing- it went on for the whole game
     
  10. ChrisSSBB

    ChrisSSBB Member+

    Jun 22, 2005
    DE
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #85 ChrisSSBB, Nov 3, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2017
    I tend to give coaches the benefit of the doubt but think Robinson got this one wrong. Nerwinski injury didn't help but how were they ever going to get an attack going hoofing it to three small players up top against Marshall and Torres. Bolanos is playing like a shadow of himself from earlier in the year. The new CM pairing does some things well but they look like a new CM pairing not in synch with the rest of the team. Ghazal defends tirelessly but gives balls away and Nosa is a strong guy but plays a different game than the Central Americans. Dang, I think I miss Jacobson. I was waiting for Robinson to bring on Shea but then bring him on for DeJong and play him at LB? WTF? I could see by the 30th minute that goals were going to be scored but it wasn't going to be by the Caps. Oh well.

    Edit: Oh yeah, you want a goal scored against you? Change the defense from the sideline just before the corner kick is taken, that is how you give up a goal.
     
  11. Kingston

    Kingston Member+

    Oct 6, 2005
    Sad to see the 'Caps bow out. A good year, though.
     
  12. OldFan2015

    OldFan2015 Member

    Nov 29, 2015
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    A good year depends on what the goals are. For the Caps as a management team, they think "hosting a home playoff game" is their mount everest. So, since they hosted two, they will consider this a rousing sucess

    At some point we need owners and managers who legitimately discuss the goals being winning the Cup. Until then we will be the C student who every couple of years pulls off a B+ (like this year).

    I made a joke to my dad, you an literally take any Carl Robinson post game interview, and run it after any game tape (win with win, loss with loss) from the entire 4 years he has been here, and you would not know they were from different games. He speaks in such generalities, cliche, and so on

    He vastly improved his player transfers this year and Waston and Techera rebounded into good campaigns. In the end, it boiled down to his lack of tactical depth and his commitment to the exact same 5-2-3-1 he has played for almost every match in 4 seasons. He can't adapt quickly to conditions.

    People may say if the Caps gave him a 6 million dollar DP he would do better. I disagree. That DP would still have to play under his rigid system that is the same over and over.

    The club will be overjoyed they got to this place. They will talk about building, momentum, Carl is the best up and coming coach, etc. For my view, we have an invisible owner who is happy that his club is the C student that gets a B sometimes. I would be happy to see a new ownership and front office that wanted to be A students. People don't reach goals without setting them, and this club is still afraid to set the goal of "We want to win the MLS Cup next year". They are so afraid to miss a goal and face the consequences, they wish to set low enough goals to reach them.
     
  13. Kingston

    Kingston Member+

    Oct 6, 2005
    I will defer to your more detailed knowledge of the team with respect to the goals it sets and the front office culture. I'd say making the playoff semis is a decent year in a general sense. There are fourteen teams that didn't make it that far. Specifically for the Whitecaps this year it was certainly more than was expected at the start of the season.
     
  14. hot potato

    hot potato Member+

    Feb 21, 2014
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    i think that all of you- corporately- have nailed the reasons for the result in Seattle

    as for me, 1 shot on goal- and not even a serious shot- in 2 games says it all- were seatlle that much better?? in the second half last night, they were light-years ahead due to their MF

    i would add that making constant and new addition changes to the engine of the team- ie midfielders- was a poor tactic- the MF was disconnected all game and didnt have the linking flow that the sounders had last night- to me, that is what cost us the game- the MF makes or breaks a team IMO

    reyna, techera, ghazal, bolanos and montero never seemed to connect in breaking down the seattle defence and seattle had an easy time IMO; placing shea on defence was a mystery as we had little wide play to use his talents; nosa played well in MF but seemed lost trying to connect with the others in MF- a lot of back and side passes ruined any possible momentum

    counter-attacks were one of our 'bread and butter' plays and we had NONE; the other all season was our goals on set pieces- i think we only had 2 all game

    when a coach instructs his team to play for a 0-0 tie (game 1) and then play for a 1-0 win (game 2), the players played accordingly- its not the way we played for most of the season

    in the off-season- robo needs to rethink his belief in the team- that we can attack with force and be an equal or better to seattle- what i saw was a team afraid to loose, not a team believing it could win

    and in that, there can be a great distance to reaching the elite teams in MLS- it needs to be closed for 2018 or we end up like 2011-2017

    more to follow
     
  15. saltyBugR

    saltyBugR Red Card

    vancouver whitecaps
    Canada
    Oct 23, 2017
    its been a good year overall and there is a base of players better than at any other time for the Caps in MLS- well done to the players and coaches

    BUT- and you know that had to be coming- teams in MLS are developing at a faster rate also- we can either do the status quo in 2018 with some slight tinkering... or be daring and go for a significant DP or 2 who potentially can lead us to a new level

    BUT- its a great word- it takes more committment from the owners- we just dont have enough attacking quality- if you want to play with the big boys in MLS, you need to pony up the bucks

    at the end of the day, when it comes to playoff time, the DPs usually lead the way- and every team in MLS who hopes to aspire to win the CUP, needs 2- as old fan said, i am not sure the owners will see the value much beyond what they are already spending

    FOUL TASTE- the last 2 games will leave a foul taste for all whitecap supporters- we had a successful season, but the memory will be 1 shot on goal in 180 minutes vs seattle... and thats a bitter taste to swallow
     
  16. hot potato

    hot potato Member+

    Feb 21, 2014
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    THINGS TO CONSIDER IN THE OFF-SEASON:

    1. DPs-
    what to do with our 3 DPs- laba, shea, and montero- not sure when their contract ends, but i believe that montero is a loan with an option- 13 goals is quite good in MLS, but i am not convinced that he does enough to warrant a siging from his chinese team- $1.8 mill for fredy is a lot of loot and i woud like to think that if shea and laba had their contracts ended, then a lot of money is freed-up to go shopping for a game and play-off changer; for me, shea can easily be replaced by a bench player where he often is (isnt good for a DP to be a pt bench player), and laba is just too slow in the quicker MLS and adds no attacking effect (jacobson and tchani, teibert and ghazal can be the pitbulls at a cheaper price)

    2. Ghazal- i believe he is another loan player and i wouldnt resign him- slow in moving the ball- he's a pitbull and those kind of players are cheaper to get

    3. Nosa and Reyna- both should have their contracts renewed- both have good linking abilities and are able to add creativity to the attack- THE BEST SIGNINGS- along with de jong and marinovic- ROBO HAS MADE

    4. Ousted- certainly he is on the way out and it must have been a bitter pill for him to end his career on the bench- but marinovic is a good replacement and not so erratic for his defenders to cope with

    5. Playing it safe should not be an option- keeping the players we have with some small tinkering will end with the same result of 2015 and 2017 or another 2016- coaches have made some good signings and have a stronger base of players- to go to the next level will take courage, vision and some added money from the owners

    5. Davies- a tremendous mid-season Gold cup and some stunning play in the first half of the season... and then he seemed to loose it all- is it youthful lack of confidence or was he programmed to play more defensively?? but his thrusting talents on attack were stymied- robo needs to do better with this gifted player- and as a side note, Alphonso- work on your right foot !

    6. What do we need ? - 2 higher quality DPs- a more cantankerous, physical striker and a sublime goalscorer who has the ability to get +15 goals (and its not fredy)- goals excite, entertain and give the team the belief that its possible to win the MLS (playing to not give up a goal or a 1-0 win is just not whitecap history until we entered MLS)

    7. Will it happen?- probably most of what i have said will not happen- so i expect fredy, ghazal, and laba will be back, leaving room for only 1 DP who will be an under $1 mill signing or another loan player which is cheaper- its like Old Fan has said- the owners dont want to really invest in the hope of winning the MLS Cup- just being average is enough and either a canada or cascadia cup

    EXPECT MORE OF THE SAME IN 2018- A COMPETITIVE TEAM THAT DANCES LIGHTLY WITH BEING MORE IN MLS AND THE VANCOUVER MARKET, BUT NEVER REALLY DELIVERING ON EITHER
     
  17. OldFan2015

    OldFan2015 Member

    Nov 29, 2015
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    Just a couple of points on that

    - we are in year 7. A conference semi final has been the pinnacle of our MLS achievements. Many of the teams that finished behind us this year have had more success in the last 7

    - our expansion partner has had significantly more successs

    -Montreal has had more success

    So what I am saying is this club (and someone like yourself), is happy with a trajectory that is make the playoffs, miss the playoffs, make/miss, and just kind of muddle around. As long as people like yourself are buying tickets, the Caps won't have ambition to win the league cup.

    In a vacuum this was a solid season, compared to last year, it was a great improvement. But is is not something we should accept as great in light of the years in league and how our major rivals have done (All four of them have a better resume in the last 7 years than the Caps).

    All of them clearly say their goal is to win the MLS Cup. Our statements year after year are "qualify for the playoffs" " host a home playoff game", etc. That commitment to being a middling club filters from top to bottom.

    Clearly, enough fans are happy with the on again off again type of club as they are drawing their 20- 21 K a match. But you know, this market could, and should, be getting 25 - 26k average if they built a consistent winner. That additional ticket revenue would allow the Invisible Owner to at least buy one significant DP.
     
  18. saltyBugR

    saltyBugR Red Card

    vancouver whitecaps
    Canada
    Oct 23, 2017
    last sunday was a prime opportunity to take the club to the next level in MLS and the city- a sold out lower bowl of just under 28 000 boisterous, supportive fans- there was a growing buzz in the city

    and what did we see- a coach's game plan to play for a 0-0 - the result- not 1 shot on goal- the coach lacked courage and belief in his team to take the game to seattle and get some goals- its a conservative plan tightly constructed, but not scoring gave all the chips for seattle's home game and the return of its best player

    it was disappointing- if not embarrassing- to see the first leg game being played that way- it played right into seattle's advantage

    if we are to loose, lets go out to win at home; playing not to give up a goal was just not good enough for my team... and it shouldnt be for the owners- i am tired of cliches and rhetoric

    OWNERS- STOP WITH THE BULLSHIT TALK AND GO ALL OUT IN 2018 WITH THE GOAL TO WIN MLS CUP AND BUILD THE TEAM THAT HAS THE POSSIBILITY TO DO IT
     
  19. OldFan2015

    OldFan2015 Member

    Nov 29, 2015
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    ^The goal will be to host a home playoff game, no further than that. Maybe they will say "make it to the Conference finals" but I doubt that.
     
  20. saltyBugR

    saltyBugR Red Card

    vancouver whitecaps
    Canada
    Oct 23, 2017
    AYEEEEEEEEEEE- and thats a bitter pill for this ol' bucaneer to swallow

    a report in the local newspaper explores the possibility that the Canucks NHL owner might be licking the tires on the Caps and one owner- jeff mallett- saying he and the other owners are having too much fun to sell

    i think there is some smoke to this rumor- aquilini would be the type of owner that would invest in making the whitecaps a much higher profile in MLS and the city- the Caps are a product that could could spiral-crazy with an ambitious owner- we saw a hint of that potential 9 days ago (almost 28 000)

    would i like it to happen!! ABSOLUTELY-

    the present ownership group worth billions is just too mediocre and happy with mediocrity with a hint of some upward blips every few years- i dont listen to words, i listen to actions- investing another $2-3 mill and get to the level of seattle and portland should get the desired results IMO

    even the head coach, carl robinson- admitted that we just dont have enough quality to be an elite or near elite team- it shows in the playoffs- in the 2015 and 2017 playoffs, we didnt score a goal in 4 games

    i'm afraid it will be the same in 2018 unless a new owner takes the lead... it wont happen- we are stuck with mediocrity at best
     
  21. OldFan2015

    OldFan2015 Member

    Nov 29, 2015
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    Yes, i am in full support of Aquilini combining Caps, Lions , and Canucks into one organization. I fully am aware of his reputation as a real estate owner, however, as as sports owner he has been top rate all the way. Demands winning, spends to the cap, gives the players 1st class amenities, etc.

    The Canucks are about 2 years away from being a very good team again and he will reap huge revenues once they catch fire. I would like to see some synergy so they are not harming the Caps or Lions.
     
  22. Kingston

    Kingston Member+

    Oct 6, 2005
    I'm actually a TFC fan so I'm not buying Whitecaps tickets but I do like to see my fellow Canadian team do well.

    I get your desire as a fan to see your team win it all. Certainly feeling like the ownership is committed to that goal will make a big difference for the fans. TFC fans have responded to the team putting in the resources to try to win it all. In that sense, feeling that the effort is being made is as important as whether it ultimately results in a cup on the shelf.

    Just remember that there are 21 other teams (well, at least 15 depending on the ownership group) who are doing their best to win it all, too. So it's never as simple as saying the front office just needs to go out and build a consistent winner. Realistically, over a longer time frame, teams are going to cycle through making the missing the playoffs and, as the league continues to expand, the chances of any one fan's team winning the cup will continue to drop.
     
  23. hot potato

    hot potato Member+

    Feb 21, 2014
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    the caps will never be a serious MLS Cup contender when they keep signing players on loan and/or players trying to resurrect their careers- and the Caps have too many of that- these are players who have some impact at the beginning, but have little staying power- its why they are sent here on loan or trying to resurrect their careers
    i dont see any other MLS serious team ownership going this route and its why we will always be in the middle- or less- of the pack and when push comes to shove in the playoffs, always look anemic (no goals in the last 4 playoff games- 2015, 2017) or end up like 2016
    its a tease when in reality we are not going to ever be a MLS Cup winner with their approach of going cheaper on the dime than the serious contenders- signing montero or reyna wont make a dent as they arent on the same level as a dempsey, a giovinco, a villa, a piatti, a wright-phillips, a hiquain or a valeri when the playoff hunt comes
    say what you will about the owner of the impact, joey saputo, but he wants to WIN and he commits money to doing it- he will not put up with mediocre- same goes with TFC
     
  24. Kingston

    Kingston Member+

    Oct 6, 2005
    You may well be correct about the Whitecaps. I do think, however, that there is still a non-DP model that works in MLS. That is, we have successful teams that build useful squads based on a whole bunch of decent players rather than big name DPs. It does take a special skill from the hiring office, however, for that to work.
     
  25. hot potato

    hot potato Member+

    Feb 21, 2014
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    its going to be less and less likely as more money is becoming available and more owners will open their pockets - i just hope they stop with the aged euro stars and go YOUNG- this wont happen in vancouver, disregarding robo's comments/spins about getting more quality- it will be loan players like montero and players looking to rejuvenate their careers, like reyna, ghazal and shea

    PS i predict that montero, bolanos, williams, ousted and shea are all gone by 2018- maybe mezquida and harvey-; ghazal and laba should be too (no offensive punch, slow in MF), but they wont

    personally, i think we were lucky to have a regular season like 2017- some entertaining, exciting and surprising moments... and the playoffs tell us all we needed to know about that (1 easy shot in 2 games!!!!!!! and a fool-hardy set of game plans that lacked conviction and belief) if your going to play, go for a WIN, not a strategy to not loose, especially at home in front of a franchise record crowd- it was really hard to stomach, wasnt it ??
     

Share This Page