This would be best for CONCACAF.

Discussion in 'Caribbean' started by El Yucateco, Nov 1, 2005.

  1. Hank Rearden

    Hank Rearden New Member

    Jul 9, 1999
    Dundee, Illinois, USA
    I wouldn't say MLS has a great track record of producing quality players that have transferred to Europe and succeeded, but it has been improving, and I'm sure that over time it will have a good record.

    Here are some successful players that come to mind:

    Shaun Bartlett (MLS played a part)
    Stern John (MLS played a large role)
    Damani Ralph (MLS had some impact)
    Tim Howard (almost entirely due to MLS)
    Carlos Bocanegra (MLS played large role)
    Eddie Lewis (partly MLS, partly USNT)
    DaMarcus Beasley (partly MLS, partly USNT)
    Marcus Hahnemann (MLS played large role)
    Adin Brown (MLS played large role)
    Bobby Convey (partly MLS, partly USMT)
    Ramiro Corrales (MLS played large role)
    Brian West (MLS played large role)
    Cory Gibbs (MLS probably had small role)
    Brian McBride (partly MLS, mostly USNT)
    Joe-Max Moore (partly MLS, mostly USNT)

    Here are some less successful players:

    Zach Thornton (didn't succeed, but chance was provided by MLS)
    Daniel Torres (not a success, and MLS only played a part)
    Ante Razov (didn't succeed, but chance was mostly due to MLS)
    Jason Bent (not a success, but MLS played large part)
    Mauricio Wright (moderate success, but MLS played a part)
    Clint Mathis (not successful, but MLS played a part)
    Chad Barrett (not a success, but MLS played large part)
    Greg Vanney (moderate success, and MLS played large part)
    Steve Shak (not a success, heck he wasn't successful in MLS)
    Saul Martinez (moderate success, MLS played some part)

    I'm sure there are others I'm missing too. Considering MLS has only been around about 10 years, I think it's starting to make some contributions.
     
  2. numerista

    numerista New Member

    Mar 21, 2004
    Actually, that's pretty far off. There's also Preki, Chung, Cobi, Ramon Ramirez, Agoos, Onstad, and Robin Fraser.

    MLS has its share of veterans, but most of its retirement-oriented signings have been expensive failures. That's why they've grown increasingly rare.
     
  3. numerista

    numerista New Member

    Mar 21, 2004
    Not sure I follow what you're saying with some of these. When it comes to Joe-Max Moore, I'd agree that his pre-WC94 experience had a big role in his development as a player. However, it's hard to see how the national team played much of a role in producing Brian McBride or Eddie Lewis.

    Also, Ryan Nelsen definitely benefited from his time in MLS, and Brad Friedel arguably did too. They'd make good additions to your list.
     
  4. Warlord

    Warlord New Member

    Jun 8, 2005
    District of Columbia
    That's my point, the MLS while it's great to have a league here, it's not of great calibre at this point. But having a league is better than no league at all. And some players may develop playing with better quality players, but if MLS keeps buying over the hill players who are past their prime, how does that develop the league in the long term?

    It's all economics at this point. having the likes of Youri Djorkaeff play for MetroStars will boost league attendances by fans that's all it is.
     
  5. numerista

    numerista New Member

    Mar 21, 2004
    Do you believe that Russell Latapy was only brought back to boost attendance for the Soca Warriors? He's the same age as Djorkaeff, after all.

    In 2003-04 Djorkaeff scored 9 goals in the Premiership. He still has the ability to play good soccer and was a quality signing.
     
  6. Warlord

    Warlord New Member

    Jun 8, 2005
    District of Columbia
    No Latapy is a special type of player even at 37 yrs old. He does have a tremendous amount of skill. Now Djorkaeff was a very good striker in Europe when he played for Inter, and I believe Borussia Dortmund in Germany but that was some time ago. How many goals has he scored in MLS so far this season?
     
  7. Warlord

    Warlord New Member

    Jun 8, 2005
    District of Columbia
    Just of note here, how has the MLS benefitted Trinidad and Tobago when most of their team play in Europe ?:rolleyes:

    Cornell Glenn cannot even make the national team. Scott Sealy is in and out of the side and hardly gets to play, the only person who plays from the MLS is Avery John. The rest are from Europe, Japan, and Trinidad's Professional league.
     
  8. Hank Rearden

    Hank Rearden New Member

    Jul 9, 1999
    Dundee, Illinois, USA
    Nelsen is one I definitely missed. Friedel did develop a little in MLS, but his transfer was secured more through his prior European experience (ex-Galatasaray) than through his MLS performances.

    I meant that some players like McBride and Lewis may not have had a chance to get a job in England without significant USNT exposure. Sure, each developed in MLS (Lewis especially), but I don't want to ignore the USNT's role in their moves to Europe.
     
  9. numerista

    numerista New Member

    Mar 21, 2004
    Djorkaeff's skill is different (more passing, less dribbling), but I think he's held up awfully well, too. He had 10 goals in the regular season, plus one more in the playoffs.
     
  10. numerista

    numerista New Member

    Mar 21, 2004
    Ah, ok ... so it was more about how a player gets seen than how a player refines his game.
     
  11. Renegade

    Renegade New Member

    Oct 20, 2000
    VA
    Being Jamaican does not automatically mean that you know what you are talking about, but it would give you some credibility. That's why I doubt that you were born in Jamaica. I want to see your birth certificate. :D You are probably from Brooklyn or Hartford, and spent some time in the yard ;) I am just joking, but I think you are too Eurocentric and you need to look more towards this region Believe it or not you will live to see the MLS fill stadiums of 30K and more with football fanatics. You will live to see MLS players make as much as European players. Please print this post to remind you later in life where you heard it first

    This is a league ( the Premiership)whose fans made monkey noises when Yorke and other players of African decent walked on the field. I believe that his decision to leave England may be a little more personal than you think. His demotion from being a starter at Man U. was directly linked to his world cup qualification obligations. This was not the case for the English players on Man U. If money is not an issue Yorke would be playing in T&T. But that would be stupid. Just like an argument that states that money is not an issue for a professional football player. If the MLS could pay him I am sure he would consider it.

    If I had the time I would be happy to go through the lenghtly list of player over 35 years old in all of the leagues you have mentioned. You obviouly do not watch the MLS. Because if you did you would be very happy with the opportunity that it gives to young players to develop.
     
  12. Warlord

    Warlord New Member

    Jun 8, 2005
    District of Columbia
    Let's clear things up first and foremost. I was not born in hartford or Brooklyn as you unfortunately seem to think :rolleyes: . I was born in Mandeville, Manchester a place you've probably never been to in your entire lifespan thus far, and I know more about Carribbean football this side of the region than most people do.

    I am a realist and the best leagues are in Europe and have been for the last few decades. You keep talking about MLS but it is substandard son. There is no world beaters that the MLS have created ever. You've so far failed to show me a list of supposed superstars that your league has created and I know why.

    Now to your comments about Yorke, he's said publicly on several occassions that he doesn't need Trinidad and Tobago's money when he plays for the NT. All he wants to do is to help them get to the WC. He even said that although he's won everything in club football, Champions League etc.all those pale in comparison to playing at the WC. Let me also remind you that he was courted by teams in Qatar and United Arab Emirates that pay much greater than MLS and Australian league but he turned it down. Keep in mind Batistuta, Ronald De Boer, Frank DeBoer, Marcel Desailly and Mohammed Kallon all play in the middle east where they get crazy money. The money issue is nothing for Yorke.

    Obviously you don't read his interviews else you wouldn't make such a statement regarding his financial status. He is a multimillionaire is far richer than most people think.

    Now, if you also followed English football, you will see that the FA has zero tolerance policy regarding any form of racial abuse. They have targeted the fans of teams that in the past that were racially abusive to blacks that play in the league. To my recollection Yorke has never been taunted by any fans of opposing teams when he played for Man U or Aston Villa earlier on in his career. There was only 1 incident when he was at Birmingham City about a year ago, and the FA and club dealt with the issue then. In case you didn't know Yorke played all of his career in England up until recently. So I really don't know where you get you tidbit of news from.

    The racist stuff has occured mostly in Spain and I think some parts of Germany. I'm still waiting for your list of players that the MLS has developed in world beaters :D
     
  13. yankiboy

    yankiboy New Member

    Sep 2, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Are you cats still kicking this around.

    MLS has developed some good players. The Caribbean has developed some good players.

    We return you now return you to the previous programming. :D
     
  14. Warlord

    Warlord New Member

    Jun 8, 2005
    District of Columbia
    Well that cat keeps talking out of his a$$ about shyte he doesn't know about. Look I'm not disrespecting the MLS in any way, I think it's good that the league exist for players this side of the world, and it will help in player development as is the case with most decent leagues but I think it's got a ways to go still. At this present time, it hasn't produced world beaters but who knows in 10 years time how much things will change.
     
  15. yankiboy

    yankiboy New Member

    Sep 2, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Agreed. :)
     
  16. Renegade

    Renegade New Member

    Oct 20, 2000
    VA
    Please in 7 months you will see all the world beaters you need. When CONCACAF teams in the world cup perform beyond your wildess dreams. Please review the performance of players like Beasley, Donovan, Ed Johnson, etc. All developed in the MLS.

    As for your zero tolerance in the Europe, please Black players have been verbally abused for years in Seria A, La Liga and all the British leagues. Only last year because of the refusal of players to play in some venues that the Premiership became politically correct. The players forced the issue not the league. SHAME ON YOU FOR DEFENDING THAT INSTITUTION. I am quite familiar with Mandeville, I knew some goat farmers from there. Even in Jamaica you need a passport to go to Mandeville :D Good curry goat though!!!! LOL :D

    If you believe that Yorke is playing for less money in Austrailia than he would have made in the Middle East then you really have exposed your lack of knowledge about football.
     
  17. Warlord

    Warlord New Member

    Jun 8, 2005
    District of Columbia
    In 7 months I will see world beaters? We'll see about that no team in Concacaf has won the World Cup yet. But is good to see that you're a deluded humorous cat with dreams :D

    Now Beasley, and Johnson are good players but Donovan, he is OVERRATED and will not get any better than he currently is playing in the World famous MLS.

    Now if you learn to read, you will see in my previous post, I said the English FA has a zero tolerance policy regarding racism in football. When did I ever say Europe has a zero tolerance policy?

    I see you're familiar with jamaica cuisine and not jamaica. Just by your comments about Mandeville, I could tell you've never been there but that's not surprising ...keep surfing the net for information on jamaica :D

    Now Yorke, I guess he showed you his paycheck didn't he? How bout this Renegade is now Dwight Yorke's agent.
     
  18. Renegade

    Renegade New Member

    Oct 20, 2000
    VA
    I'm busted. I've only been to Jamaica 3 times. Twice to Kingston, and once to Negril but you are right I never made it to the deep country. As far as reading your post I included the rest of your beloved leagues because you think they are superior. Now for a real discussion, I do not believe that the MLS is superior to the European leagues. I do believe that several MLS teams are better than some Premiership teams. Of course the top Premiership teams are great. Can we compete with the mid tier Premiership teams? Yes we can. Have we beaten them in the past? Yes we have. Do I think a player from the Caribbean would be better of starting for a MLS team than sitting on the bench for a middle table Premiership team? I do. I qualify that "I do" in terms of football development, and not making money. So as I began I will end. For our region we have a good league in the MLS which will and has helped develop our players. You need not respond Warlord because we will never agree. I did enjoy the exchange and I'll be happy to buy you a Carib some day. You know a real beer unlike that Red Stripe sh!t :D .
     
  19. Martin Fischer

    Martin Fischer Member+

    Feb 23, 1999
    Kampala. Uganda
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, I would think that Stern John would be enough and providing a place for even your marginal players to play is a good thing as well. But at second glance, given how Sealy is only a spot starter and John and Glenn ride the bench in MLS, maybe MLS is not all that helpful to your team.

    Are you going to retract your false statement that MLS is dominated by 35 and over players?

    And only a fool would compare Latapay to Djorkaeff -- one is a World Cup winner and the other, while talented, has a career dotted by mediocre clubs or leagues and team failures.
     
  20. Warlord

    Warlord New Member

    Jun 8, 2005
    District of Columbia
    For starters, Cornell Glenn is far better than the majority of players that play in your league. He shouldn't even be there, I really don't understand why he is but that's another topic.

    what's up with you guys? Can't you read? you keep misquoting things that I've said. I never said the league is "dominated" by 35 and over players. What I said was you keep taking on players who are past their prime and in the twilight of their careers. I can back my statement up because since MLS inception you've had guys like valderrama, etcheverry, Mo Johnston, Walter Zenga play their when they done in Europe..do you not remember :rolleyes:

    and your comment regarding Latapy/ Djorkaeff is quite foolish cuz I didn't make a distinct comparison between them. My comments were in regards to their ages and not what their personal achievements were. How can you compare a midfielder and a striker when both play different positions?

    Just so you know Latapy played most of his career in Portugal with Porto, then Hibernian and Glasgow Rangers. I don't think any of those teams were mediocre at all. Before you decide to talk about something you don't know about, do some research :eek:
     
  21. Warlord

    Warlord New Member

    Jun 8, 2005
    District of Columbia
    Well I drink Guinness and Dragon stout. If you could deal with that then we're alright. :)
     
  22. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    For the record, I believe that you've been to Jamaica multiple times. ... And obviously smoked some serious hsit while you were down as the following quote illustrates:

    :p
     
  23. PUMA Auriazul

    PUMA Auriazul New Member

    Jun 7, 2005
    New Mexico
    :eek: :mad: :eek:
     
  24. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Of course, the fact that Yorke was playing like crap had nothing to do with it :rolleyes:
     
  25. Renegade

    Renegade New Member

    Oct 20, 2000
    VA

    With what the monkey noises or being benched? :D
     

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