"Hard to put them in order because of so many variables but I'd say the 6 greatest ever as a group are: Pele Cristiano Messi Di Stefano Maradona Cryuff" where do You see Zidane and R9 ?
@JamesBH11 What you are not understanding here is that Raul wasn't asked to compare Cristiano and Ronaldo. He was asked to compare Cristiano and every player in history. So there is no bias involved or jealousy of Ronaldo involved swaying his opinion. Also, he could understandably have animosity toward Cristiano for being the major reason he was pushed out of Madrid. Cristiano will also soon overtake his all-time goal record and he has surpassed Raul in the minds of many Madrid fans. He could have easily played it safe and paid his respect to club legends Di Stefano and Puskas, or teammate Zidane and nobody would have blamed him. Was he jealous of all of them too? He could have went with the classic statement of he will never be better than Pele or Maradona but he didn't. For all these reasons, his opinion is more honest than many.
Tostao's decline at such an early age, he was right in his prime in age, is due to a dangerous injury to his eye. Not so much as a decline (like Ronaldinho) as simply being forced not to play anymore. Cristiano Ronaldo on the other had, has never translated his club form to the WC or even the Euro, not being a candidate for tournament Golden Ball in six international tournaments so far. I also in addition feel that Tostao was a greater natural talent, playing in the Brazilian top level at age 17 for example. As for Stoichkov, it's true he had Laudrup alongside him, but he was an integral part of that side as well (being top scorer in a few seasons), and had Romario alongside for only one full season. He won the CL and three La Liga championships without Romario. Him having Laudrup is very similar to Henry having Bergkamp next to him at Arsenal.
Pipiolo, to be fair though, I think it should be noted that the only time Messi did in fact replicate his club form was during the group stages of 2014. Admittedly, he was decent against Switzerland. We really have to analyze the context here. When Argentina reverted to playing a defensive system, rather than 4-3-3, Messi disappeared for the rest of the tournament. In hindsight, it was absolutely the right thing to do as the WC typically favours the best defensive teams. But, individually, Messi did not shine after the group stage. Let's not forget the little "argument" between Sabella and Messi over the system, or the times Mascherano and Sabella, post-WC, talked about how Messi "put the group first, before the individual, and he personally sacrificed himself for the benefit of the team.". It very much reminds me about the argument Zidane and Domenech had during 06 Group stages where the former demanded a 4-4-2 which was more suited for him rather than a lone striker ahead of him. No big wonder that France did not have a very nice offense during that tournament (post-Spain, they were pretty lackluster in that department). It's no coincidence Zidane was still praised for an incredible WC, whereas Henry's NT form has been criticized to this day. Zidane was an all-time great playmaker, so of course he can still look good operating in midfield, though his contributions in the final third will be more restricted. Henry was at his peak in 06 and yet did not have the same performance at the WC because he was more isolated and had a smaller volume of opportunities. Similarly, I think a similar explanation underlies C. Ronaldo's under-performance at NT tournaments insofar as all attackers rely on high volume of service. I do think it is suspect that C. Ronaldo's only found the net vs. North Korea and Ghana and a pen vs. Iran at the WC level though.
Here is what Theirry Henry said: "Ronaldo did things nobody had seen before. He, together with Romário and George Weah, reinvented the center-forward position. They were the first to drop from the penalty box to pick up the ball in midfield, switch to the flanks, attract and disorientate the central defenders with their runs, their accelerations, their dribbling." Lionel Messi stated: "He was the best striker I've ever seen. He was so fast he could score from nothing, and could shoot the ball better than anyone." Maldini stated Ronaldo was the second hardest opponent he'd ever faced ( Maradona was #1) Still many
Time to present this in a better way: Thierry Henry: 2 goals (0PK) in 14 final games; 0 goals in 8 games excl. Supercups, Confederations Cup (never played in league cup final) Stoichkov: 6 goals in final 14 games; 0 goals in 5 games excl. Supercups Rummenigge: 2 goals in 13 final games; 2 goals in 9 games excl. Supercups ----- Maradona: 3 goals (1PK) in 14 games; 1 goal (1PK) in 8 games excl Supercups, League Cups, Confed Cup. Spoiler (Move your mouse to the spoiler area to reveal the content) Show Spoiler Hide Spoiler 2 goals in 2 Spanish League Cup games; 0 goals in 2 Copa del Rey finals; 1 goal (1PK) in 2 European finals; 0 goals in 2 international country finals; 0 goals in 1 Italian Supercup; 0 goals in 4 Coppa Italia final games; 0 goals in 1 Artemio Franchi game (predecessor of Confederations Cup) Didn't play in 1983 Spanish Supercup, 1982 UEFA supercup.
Jose Mourinho,who worked with both Ronaldo 9 and CR7,said there is only one Ronaldo and he is a Brazillian,not a Portuguese. 20 years is a long time. We'll see but not now. Also,thank you for ranking me,LOL
Why did you delete my post in reply to @SayWhatIWant #54? I was only correcting a few mistakes he had made.
Over the last 20 years; 1995-2015 (attacking players only - strikers, forwards, wingers, offensive mids) Messi Ronaldo, Zidane, Cristiano Ronaldinho, Figo, Totti, Henry, Rivaldo, Bergkamp Del Piero, Raul, Shevchenko, Batistuta, Shearer, Giggs Van Nistelrooy, Drogba, Eto'o, Ibrahimovic A rough ranking of tiers, I'd only be comfortable ranking Messi, Ronaldo, Cristiano and Zizou ahead of him.
Do you still think the same as this? http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/who-is-the-greatest-dribbler-ever.1429954/page-66#post-29468670 Also, I think the striker category is pretty evenly matched. Eto'o and RvN in particular can easily placed a tier higher. RvN has suffered from too many knee injuries though, so maybe him less so as Eto'o. I don't think Drogba is proper company for the other three. Eto'o is almost unanimously seen as the best African attacker of the past 15 years, for instance.
More or less. Raul seems to be the one who went down abit in my estimations. But I don't think there's that much between the tiers either meaning that Rivaldo and Bergkamp for example are comparable to Zidane and Ronaldo. Cristiano, since he's still active and in his best years at one of the best clubs could easily distance himself from that pack if he hasn't already. I can't remember exactly what I meant by 'stylistically' in the quote you pointed out but my rankings of the players involved remains fairly similar. Regarding Drogba, he can be omitted and replaced by Pavel Nedved.
well in last 2 decades. Ronaldo Zidane Rivaldo and ronaldinho were off from the rest in talent just like messi and Cr7 now. Figo, Nedved Bergkamp were close but more or less like Henry Kaka or ... a bit higher than like Raul Sheva Totti ..
"Over the last 20 years; 1995-2015 (attacking players only - strikers, forwards, wingers, offensive mids) Messi Ronaldo, Zidane, Cristiano Ronaldinho, Figo, Totti, Henry, Rivaldo, Bergkamp Del Piero, Raul, Shevchenko, Batistuta, Shearer, Giggs Van Nistelrooy, Drogba, Eto'o, Ibrahimovic" I think that Nedved, Kaka and Robben belong here too Edhardy what if we take it since 1990 ? where do You put players like: Romario, Baggio, M.Laudrup, Stoitchkov, Weah, Klinsmann, Cantona, Savicevic ?
"Do you think Zidane was better talent than Henry,Figo,Bergkamp,Totti?" in my opinion Zidane wasn't better talent than this players but was a better big game player, what with his artistic style of play, made him bigger legend
"Eto'o is almost unanimously seen as the best African attacker of the past 15 years, for instance." Puck, I agree. what's about Eto'o vs Weah ?
quite obviously so. Bergkamp and Henry would be in a different category *FW - Totti and Figo werte very close challenge to Zidane at Euro2000 in particular though (as their best ever performance for NT). but overall longevity, consistency , effectiveness in big games, flashy moments and memorable ... Zidane outshone them all
Weah had more natural talent than Etoo. But in overall career with longevity and consistency Etoo edged him a bit. Weah to Etoo is just like Cantona to Henry. The first two were a bit more talented but lesser in consistency and longevity ...
Go back to history 1- Raul was Real golden boy and was close in TOP3 ballon Dors 2000-02 before R9 came on board. 2- When R9 came, ironically or coincidentally , UEFA made the celebration right at Bernabeu stadium to hand R9 his 3 WPOY and 2nd Ballon Dor. During that ceremony, many came up to Raul to interview: Q: "What you felt like playing along or compete with R9?" A: " Well ... I can not do what Il fenomeno did, but I will do my best to lead the team (as captain) toward victory and I hope R9 will be a big help" Another coincidence, since R9 came on board, Raul's started declining in scoring ... a bit by abit . year after year .. (and ironically people did not look at the whole picture of failure but blame on R9 for his direct conflict to Raul's position) So that was a very bad memory of all Real fan (especially Raul was the captain of that team) so that everyone wanted to FORGET. (at least Zidane + Figo were part of the last won UCL2002 to be "excused" in that BAD MEMORY - but not R9)
If you want a long answer I can give a try at a PM but I can see the case for both players. Let me say though that Weah's numbers look bad, but that's because he didn't take penalty kicks and free kicks (in Europe his numbers are actually good, 34 goals in 63 games is a fine number for that time). Meanwhile, Totti and Baggio his numbers are somewhat inflated I'd say (as example). This is the Henry thread, but personally I can understand the case for either Weah or Eto'o. I have no doubt however that there is a distance between Eto'o and Drogba. Eto'o, although not the ultimate team player, has superior assist numbers at a host of good/great clubs too. Eto'o has done very well at a number of good clubs, a number of good leagues, has shown positional adaptability (in comparison), is the all-time Africa Cup topscorer, more goals at World Cup level too etc.
Bergkamp was very close to Zidane, the difference be that Zidane has the big moments in international play which Bergkamp didn't.