The You don't see that very often thread

Discussion in 'Referee' started by Father Ted, May 21, 2018.

  1. DefRef

    DefRef Member

    Jul 3, 2017
    Storrs CT
    Hey, I resemble that remark.......
     
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  2. refjack951

    refjack951 Member

    Nov 25, 2018
    For what it's worth, I had almost the exact situation. I decided to make it a teaching moment. I pulled out the YC and asked the girls if A) they knew what it was and B) what could get you one. I explained the 7n7 with emphasis on DR & FRD. No problem from anybody the rest of the game, including both benches and parents.

    You don't always have to give a card when dealing with youth. Sometimes take it as an opportunity to impart some knowledge. Yeah, that's not strictly by the LOTG, but you don't have to play hard case or gotcha with kids
     
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  3. rgreenberg2000

    rgreenberg2000 New Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Sep 13, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've been lurking on this forum for some time, but this one forced me out of hiding to share.....

    14U Boys pool game in AYSO Area tournament. I'm AR1, and it's rainy, windy and cold (California cold.) At the 18th minute of a 20 minute half, the central defender on my half of the field jogs off the field on the far side, through the gate to the parking lot, hops in his mom's car and takes off. Other than perhaps some of the players, I'm the only one on the field who notices (play was at the other end at the time.) At the next stoppage, I confer with the referee, who shows a yellow card in abstentia after we explain what happened to the coach (who had no idea he was down a player.)

    Definitely an odd one for the first "Leaving the field without permission" caution I've ever seen!
     
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  4. GearRef

    GearRef Member

    Manchester City
    United States
    Jan 2, 2018
    La Grange Park, Illinois
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What I’ve been taught for players who are taken off seriously injured but need to be shown a card for misconduct (that can also be applied here) is to show the card to the captain and explain it to him/her. But at that level, where the captain really just says heads or tails, I can see where that might be confusing. I guess it depends on how much you trust the captain and how much responsibility they actually take as captain.
     
  5. rgreenberg2000

    rgreenberg2000 New Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Sep 13, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    With 14U in AYSO, I'd say that the captain is pretty much just whomever the coach sent over to participate in the coin flip, with no additional responsibility (or understanding) of what might be expected of a captain beyond that.

    We sort of all agreed after our discussion that we'd just show the yellow generally to the team technical area, since the player for whom it was issued was at that point probably about 20 miles away on the freeway (and likely, much warmer than we were at the time!) :)
     
  6. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Often whoever brought halftime snack . . .

    Frankly, I think there is a question whether, in that context, the yellow actually needs to be shown at all. But I also think that whatever mechanic a ref in that context uses is perfectly reasonable.
     
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  7. Rocinante

    Rocinante Member

    Oct 9, 2018
    Keep in mind you don't have to show a yellow card to caution a player. If you're already going to the benches you could just pull both coaches together and tell them you are cautioning blue player #19 for leaving the field without permission and that since he is not there you will not be displaying a card. That eliminates any confusion in case a substitute thought you were cautioning them.
     
    dadman repped this.
  8. sulfur

    sulfur Member+

    Oct 22, 2007
    Ontario, Canada
    The best time for this (and it can seem cruel and heartless) is as the player is being removed from the field of play.

    Either wait until they stand up, or if they're being stretchered off, once the stretcher is lifted, then display the card.

    Showing it to the captain after is generally confusing, especially since the card is primarily for the other players (including substitutes and team officials) and the spectators.
     
  9. GearRef

    GearRef Member

    Manchester City
    United States
    Jan 2, 2018
    La Grange Park, Illinois
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Totally agree this was the right thing to do here.
     
  10. GearRef

    GearRef Member

    Manchester City
    United States
    Jan 2, 2018
    La Grange Park, Illinois
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would consider it disrespectful to card a stretchered player, someone who is being helped off, maybe, maybe not.
     
  11. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    There is this, in Law 5:
     
  12. sulfur

    sulfur Member+

    Oct 22, 2007
    Ontario, Canada
    Like I said, it can come across a bit like that... but as per the LotG, that's what you do.

    Page 65 of the 18/19 version reads:
    (slightly ninja'd by Bubba)
     
  13. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
  14. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    That used to be true, but since the second great re-write, the Laws have said to show the yellow card. So from a technical perspective, under the Laws, the card is supposed to be shown. [EDIT to add: IMHO, no competent appeals board would reverse a caution or send off for not showing the plastic if the caution/SO was clearly communicated during the time the caution/SO could be shown, but note the adjective . . . .]

    That said, AYSO is not going be a stickler on this (and indeed prefers that cautions not be shown for cautions/send offs at 12U or below). So in this game, I think simply telling the coach would be fine (or, as I posted above, not cautioning at all, but telling the coach the player could have been cautioned for leaving without permission). And if I went that route, I wouldn't bother telling the opposing coach--AYSO typically puts teams on opposite touchlines, and no real reason to run the shuttle for this.
     
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  15. rgreenberg2000

    rgreenberg2000 New Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Sep 13, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Since this event happened in the Area tournament pool play, the caution had to be given (whether shown or not) since cautions received affect the team's points in that game and the pool. I discussed this with our crew and the Area staff after the game, then there was unanimous agreement that the caution was required.

    Also, FWIW, in our Section, both teams occupy technical areas on the same side of the field with spectators on the opposite touch line.
     
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  16. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    With YCs affecting standings, I agree you have to give it. Sounds well handled to me.
     
  17. Gary V

    Gary V Member+

    Feb 4, 2003
    SE Mich.
    Unless you have wacky league rules with the words, "...by evidence of the ref having shown the card..." In our league, if the ref didn't show a card, the team could have protested the caution or send-off.
     
  18. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    I'd think in this situation you might not have had a chance to spot the number. But did you get the license plate?
     
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  19. rgreenberg2000

    rgreenberg2000 New Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Sep 13, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fortunately, I did get the player number......could only get make/model of the vehicle from my vantage point! :)
     
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  20. Soccer Dad & Ref

    Oct 19, 2017
    San Diego
  21. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
  22. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Ya know, if you're going to take the time to train the dog to do that, shouldn't you save it for a close game?
     
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  23. fire123

    fire123 Member+

    Jul 31, 2009
    If we didn't have the interference with the keeper from releasing the ball, what would the call be? Drop ball?
    Between the keeper and an opposing player? Can the opposing player kick at the ball while the keeper attempt to pick it up?
     
  24. Sam_C

    Sam_C Member

    Manchester City
    Brazil
    Jun 19, 2018
    It would be pretty heads-up if a keeper let the attacker shoot it into the net for a goal kick instead of contesting the DB's first touch.
     
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