The War on Voting

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by purojogo, Sep 2, 2011.

  1. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Maryland
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Country:
    Italy
    I would like to thank some of you for raising my interest in the Florida eligibility controversy. After going through several articles, Florida did not attempt to automatically purge voters as some here may have implied. What they have done is go through a process to determine eligibility of some registered voters where there may have been a discrepancy concerning their citizen status. After checking with the data provided by Homeland Security, Florida is now going through the process to verify 198 registered voters. So it is not as some groups who are using this to produce mass hysteria to push their political agenda.

    http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blo...ounties-again-prepare-check-voter-eligibility
     
  2. GiuseppeSignori

    Jun 4, 2007
    Chicago
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Country:
    United States
     
  3. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 22, 2001
    Don't drink beer but like cheese
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Country:
    United States
    The key in the first paragraph. Or is in the first sentence? "Again" and "new list" both appear.
     
  4. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    Florida
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Country:
    United States
    crazypete13 repped this.
  5. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    Florida
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Country:
    United States
    Do you know what an 0p-ed is?
     
  6. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Maryland
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Country:
    Italy
    I know a lot of stuff. I read too. I have to admit that I try to avoid the Huffington Post. Why read Democratic talking points? So if Florida used the Canadian method, you would be OK with it?
     
  7. crazypete13

    crazypete13 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 7, 2007
    A walk from BMO
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    This is a beyond stupid argument. Both option 2 and Option 3 do not require the voter to show photo ID.

    Just because it's easier to show a driver's license to vote here - and lots of us do - does not mean it is required.

    EDIT: Besides the US could benefit from a similar agency to Elections Canada to remove things like redistricting and voter registration legislation from partisan meddling - but I doubt the states or Republicans (and libertarians) would go along with it.
     
  8. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Maryland
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Country:
    Italy
    Nor would the Democrats.

    What is the stupid argument? Canada has a voter identification system. Seems like some of you would accept it.
     
  9. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Country:
    United States
    So absolutely no talk of the RNC hiring Strategic Allied Consulting to register voters in 5 swing states, and getting caught with NUMEROUS violations in Florida .... including shredding registrations in which the person identified themselves as Democrat, signing up dead voters, forging signatures, registering voters with addresses that were at businesses (presumably to register people who were actually not living in the state), etc etc etc. It's so bad that the RNC was forced to fire the firm. Yep, the problem is the damn Democrats.
     
  10. crazypete13

    crazypete13 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 7, 2007
    A walk from BMO
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Wait, what? The post I quoted said:

    At what point does our voter identification system suppress votes? Seriously, show your reasoning. Until you point out how we are suppressing votes (hint: Google "robocall scandal") you're argument is just plain silly, especially when you link to the Elections Canada website options for valid voter identifications.

    From what I can tell, you think that because we require a slightly higher level of identification than most US states, we are somehow suppressing votes, and completely ignores the differences between the countries - especially considering we don't have most of the same issues with disenfranchisement that goes on in the US.
     
  11. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Maryland
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Country:
    Italy
    The problem is allowing organizations to register voters. Does not matter the party affiliated.
     
    stanger repped this.
  12. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Maryland
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Country:
    Italy
    My apologies in that I did not look at your location when I responded. My quote was sarcasm towards the liberals who post here who claim that voter identification is a method to suppress votes. It was not intended for Canadians and I like your system. Come November, all I am required to do is give my name and they may ask me for my date of birth or address. I will sign a receipt that gets thrown in a box. So please excuse me if you thought that I think the Canadian system suppresses votes. If you follow my discussion, you will find that I am in favor of a voter identification system.
     
  13. crazypete13

    crazypete13 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 7, 2007
    A walk from BMO
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Ok, I can go along with that. However, do you not agree that the timing of all these state laws, and especially the intent, is not de facto voter suppression?
     
  14. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Maryland
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Country:
    Italy
    I don't trust either side in their actions. While one may want to suppress, the other may want to get any vote they can. Both like the issue in the forefront because it energizes their base. While some here make the argument that the numbers that may, let me repeat may, be purged off the rolls are insignificant, then why is it such a big fuss if those individuals are purged because they are not eligible to vote. Then we have the argument that there is little reason for ineligible people to risk voting because of the punishment. If anyone bothered to read about the case of the Canadian couple who voted in Iowa, they would find out that the two thought they were eligible to vote based on the fact that they resided there. My sense is that most non-citizens who have voted are not doing so to cheat the system. It is the system that has the holes that allow them. But any attempt to correct it and automatically come the cries of voter suppression.
     
  15. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire

    http://thetimes-tribune.com/opinion/no-reward-in-vote-fraud-1.1379360

    ...{W}hy haven't there been any vote fraud prosecutions? There are multiple answers, practical and legal.

    As noted by former Allegheny County solicitor Michael H. Wojcik in a Pittsburgh Post-Gazette guest column, the reward isn't worth the risk. Risk robbing a bank and you might get some money. Risk impersonating someone at a polling place and your reward will be, what? An extra vote? Though voter I.D. advocates don't seem to realize it, the existing state penalty for vote fraud is up to seven years in prison and a $15,000 fine. That doesn't include other potential charges including forgery and identity theft....​


    For the third time, could you drown out the chirping crickets by sharing your thoughts on this point? Thanks in advance.
     
    GiuseppeSignori repped this.
  16. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Maryland
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Country:
    Italy
    Sure. How much of a risk is it when little is done to investigate or prosecute voter fraud? Voting is not about reward or risk. Voting is about taking part in the democratic process. As a son of immigrants, who grew up with immigrants from many places, I know the pride that those individuals have taking part in elections. It is about civic duty. Those who are not citizens that have registered and voted are not doing so to cheat the system. They either believe or have been led to believe that they have the right to vote. Hope that took care of your crickets.
     
  17. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Not really.
    [​IMG]

    You have quite the unique understanding of the "problem" these laws are pretending to address. That's been clarified.
     
  18. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Maryland
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Country:
    Italy
    No, my cynicism is not the same as yours.
     
  19. That Phat Hat

    That Phat Hat Member+

    Nov 14, 2002
    Just Barely Outside the Beltway
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Country:
    Japan
    Well, that's not fair. I'm pretty sure he doesn't have an understanding of anything.
     
  20. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    Florida
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Country:
    United States
    Sweet Jesus. We have voter-ID laws in the US. In 2008 in Ohio, I had to sign a piece of paper next to the signature scanned off of my voter registration form; if the signature didn't look right, I could have been barred. They also asked if I still lived at the address I put down on the voter-reg form. That is just like the Canadian system; a neighbor vouching for you instead of a signature. Under the system I outlined, there were less than three cases of in-person voter fraud in Ohio between 2000-2010. For Falc, that's 2, 1, or 0 cases (I can't remember how many).

    The tradeoff isn't mass chaos in the streets OR no voting whatsoever. There needs to be a level of identification (largely so that the state doesn't mis, under, or over count your vote), but we already have so many levels of redundancy it's absurd. In order to vote in the USA, you have to:

    1) Have an address (or you don't know what polling place to visit)
    2) Have a voter-registration form filled out
    3) Have a photo ID card that matches your face, name, and signature
    4) Have a unique ballot with your name and signature on it

    How many of these are necessary? Where are all the small-government, cut-red-tape conservatives when you post all the myriad ways a government keeps track of a single vote?
     
  21. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Maryland
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Country:
    Italy
    Good for Ohio Brummie. Maybe other states should follow. You do understand that each state, territory and the District of Columbia have their own laws concerning voting and registration. It is not uniform throughout the United States.

    Phat Hat - I am more than happy to continue your edification development.
     
  22. Yoshou

    Yoshou Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Country:
    United States
    So.. You can't read, can you? The problem isn't that they are requiring identification of voters, but that they are requiring PHOTO IDs that, while common, are not universal. As an example, you aren't going to find many people that have a problem with Virginia's voter ID process because it allows people to use a number of non-photo IDs to confirm your ID, like a voter registration card that VA is sending to all registered voters. If you look at option 2 and option 3, that does not required photo IDs and the options are something that, for Canadians, that are things that all Canadians should have.
     
  23. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Maryland
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Country:
    Italy
    The problem is not my reading. Some of you are creating arguments with me that is just not there. I did not state that the only acceptable form of ID is a driver's license or state ID. I have advocated an identification process and I am open to other options. I resided in Virginia and found no problem with their system. What I do have a problem is with my state of Maryland doing nothing at all. So the problem is not my reading comprehension, it is with some of you wanting to create an argument to fulfill your agenda.
     
  24. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    Florida
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Country:
    United States
    Two things:

    1) Ohio had that system under attack because John Kasich wanted to implement the same voter-ID rule that was in effect until two weeks ago with Rick Scott here in Florida.

    2) Why should each state have the right to regulate its own voting laws when we have such a large part of our voting population that is transient?
     
  25. fatbastard

    fatbastard Member+

    Aug 1, 2003
    Lincoln (ish), Va
    Club:
    DC United
    Country:
    United States
    well, 1 is that no-one votes for anything on the federal level.
    All votes, even for President, are done at the state level or below. If we voted at the federal level, remember, Gore would have won - but we don't.

    I think it would be fine if there were both minimum and maximum type "rules" set at the federal level for all states, but they could only really go so far.
     

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