The War on Voting

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by purojogo, Sep 2, 2011.

  1. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Maryland
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Country:
    Italy
    But Virginia does allow the use of a concealed hand gun permit!
     
  2. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    AUFC
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Country:
    --other--
    What's not to like about her?
     
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  3. Yoshou

    Yoshou Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Country:
    United States
    Virginia's voter ID law is the only one that has been approved by the justice department since they started putting their foot down because it doesn't discriminate. The problem is, Virginia is currently the only one that accepts non-photo IDs
     
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  4. tomwilhelm

    tomwilhelm Member+

    Dec 14, 2005
    Boston, MA, USA
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Country:
    United States
    Well in that case...! ;)

    Actually, I have no problem with Virginia's law. Completely reasonable and non-intrusive.

    I still think they need to do something about absentee ballot fraud. But what are the odds of solving, you know, an actual problem that exists?
     
  5. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Country:
    United States
    Rachel Maddow did a very nice piece last night about the situation in NC. VIP (Voter Integrity Project) has submitted approximately 30,000 names to the NC Board of Elections who they claim are registered to vote, but are in fact now deceased (some of the deceased on the rolls are claimed to have been still registered 10 years after their death). They plopped this thing on the Board of Elections and have been doing tv interviews about it for several days now. Of course, after checking into it, the first thing the Board found was that within a week, over 1/3 of the people to whom they sent letters to (alleging that YOU may not be eligible to vote because YOU may be dead), sent back letters saying, 'um, I'm not dead.' Those are just those who got around to responding within the week.

    But less funny, and more probative here was the fact that according to an NC election official who appeared on the show, of all the 30,000 names that were submitted by VIP, NOT A SINGLE instance of voter fraud was found. Yes, some were dead, but none of those people who were dead had ever had votes cast after their death in their names. NOT ONE. So they went through a big charade and it didn't change a single vote. This whole thing is becoming a farce. They are trying to use the fear of a miniscule amount of voter fraud to hopefully sweep up large swaths of legitimate voters in their web. I would be very interested to see the number on WHERE the 730,000 voters are that are currently under fire in Ohio. I get the feeling that disproportionately, it would be centered around, ahem ................................ urban areas.
     
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  6. fatbastard

    fatbastard Member+

    Aug 1, 2003
    Lincoln (ish), Va
    Club:
    DC United
    Country:
    United States
    It didn't really change much from before, I still will not have to use a photo ID to vote - and I won't offer one on general principal. I get my voter card in the mail and I use that. Expecting them to be dicks, I will bring a phone bill and use it if need be. Hopefully, I'll bring the one with my house address instead of my PO Box ;)
    Same one I used in a DC Superior Court for proof of address last month (no picture ID needed there either :cool:)

    I have never been asked for any ID at all, just had to know my address and name, but then I always voted in a heavy R District - this year they moved me to a more D District to stop me from skewing the other precinct's solid red history; the precinct actually voted for Obama last time, shocked the hell outta those folks, but it was bleeding red in 2010, I felt a bit scared working the Dem info table.
     
  7. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Maryland
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Country:
    Italy
    So some of you have no problem providing some form of ID as long as a picture is not mandatory. That works. Just giving a name, address and date of birth is not enough though. My other problem has to do with not having to show proof of citizenship. Who knows how many non-citizens are registered.
     
  8. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I hear the number could well surpass kujillion
     
  9. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    The 720, y'all
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Country:
    United States

    Apparently, not that many.

    And of course, there is the additional question of whether any of them even voted.
     
  10. Yoshou

    Yoshou Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Country:
    United States
    No.. My problem is that the reason it is being implemented is not because voter fraud is an issue, it is being used to intentionally prevent certain classes of people from voting and that those certain classes of people happen to consistently vote for the opposing part of the party implementing the rules. If you're policies are so faulty that you have to resort to voter suppression to win, then you're policies are f**ked up.
     
  11. fatbastard

    fatbastard Member+

    Aug 1, 2003
    Lincoln (ish), Va
    Club:
    DC United
    Country:
    United States
    a) why? And why care about DOB for that matter? Other than possibly telling all the George Foreman's who live at one address apart?
    2) This is the USA, you are not given proof of citizenship, it is a foreign concept (pun not intended). That's one of the reasons why the Arizona law got such scorn - we are not required to carry citizenship papers with us. Ever. Maybe you dig it up and bring it when going through the effort to first start a job for tax purposes, but never to carry with you.
    The burden is on the state to not allow you to register (one time), not on you to prove to woefully under-trained polling workers and volunteers (every time).
     
  12. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh
    Club:
    DC United
    Country:
    United States
    An insignificantly larger number than the number of lion attacks in our neighborhood I've prevented with my special nightly prayers.

    That's the problem the people on your side of the argument have and that kills your argument. You're expending a shitload of mental energy on a virtually nonexistent problem (that, not coincidentally, affects minorities and Democrats alot more than white GOPs) while ignoring a small but real problem (that, again not coincidentally, disproportionately affects the inverse); namely, absentee voter fraud.
     
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  13. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Maryland
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Country:
    Italy
    And the counter argument not to implement voter ID is so that the Democratic machines can bring whomever they wish to the ballot box. Both sides can make their arguments for or against.

    When my mother retired and applied for her social security benefits, she had to bring her certificate of naturalization. There is no requirement to be a citizen for social security if you paid into it. Yet, my mother had to bring the certificate.

    Citizenship is a requirement of voting. Checking a box and claiming that you are a citizen is not satisfactory. At minimum, require the number on the birth or naturalization certificate.
     
  14. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Maryland
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Country:
    Italy
    LOL - The shitload of mental energy is coming from those who are against common sense approaches to ensure the integrity of our voting system. Explain why ballots are written in English AND Spanish? Are ballots made available in Italian, German, Russian or Chinese? Considering how so many special interest groups go out to register voters and bus them to polling places, the system is clean alright.
     
  15. tomwilhelm

    tomwilhelm Member+

    Dec 14, 2005
    Boston, MA, USA
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Country:
    United States
    Since you're still tilting at windmills, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

    Have a nice weekend, everyone.
     
  16. tomwilhelm

    tomwilhelm Member+

    Dec 14, 2005
    Boston, MA, USA
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Country:
    United States

    There are more Spanish speakers in the United States than there are speakers of Chinese, French, German, Italian, Hawaiian, and the Native American languages combined.
    source: wikipedia

    That's why, dumbass.
     
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  17. Yoshou

    Yoshou Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Country:
    United States
    Except one sides argument is actually true and your arguments are completely bogus. Ballot stuffing hasn't been an issue in this country for decades and anyone that tried it would be quite easily found out and crushed like a bug by the Justice Department. Yet again, in person impersonation fraud represents barely even 10% of the voter fraud in this country and voter fraud as a whole occurs in significantly less than 1% of the total votes cast in an election. So, congrats! In your valiant attempts to prevent a problem that represents a fraction of a fraction of 1% you are preventing 10% of Americans that can legally vote from voting.

    *laugh* Do they make your mother show them her certificate of naturalization every time she collects her SS check? If not, what the heck does this have to do with anything?
     
  18. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    A bit redundant to put the NSFW notification in a Sarah Silverman video.
     
  19. tomwilhelm

    tomwilhelm Member+

    Dec 14, 2005
    Boston, MA, USA
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Country:
    United States
    Her bit in The Aristocrats was a true work of art.
     
  20. Dyvel

    Dyvel Member+

    Jul 24, 1999
    The dog end of a day gone by
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Country:
    Ireland Republic
    Nice one centurian
     
  21. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh
    Club:
    DC United
    Country:
    United States
    Right. And the argument to my special prayers is that if I stop them, my children will be eaten by lions the next time they're out riding their bikes.

    You have a pretty stupid obsession with a nonexistent problem. I have to say, at a certain point, it becomes more and more likely that you're just a racist who doesn't want black people to vote.

    Do you see what I did there? I said you're guilty until proven innocent. And with more evidence than you have for supporting voter ID laws.
     
  22. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh
    Club:
    DC United
    Country:
    United States
    The stupid, it burns!!!! Please stop being stupid.
     
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  23. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Maryland
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Country:
    Italy
    The obsession is with you and others by going the distance with this topic. I expressed my opinion. You have trouble with it, then get over it. Your insults do nothing. What is it that you fear? A fair election process?
     
  24. Shabs

    Shabs Member

    Jun 19, 2002
    NYC
    It's already fair! There is no fraud!
     
  25. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh
    Club:
    DC United
    Country:
    United States
    Wow, you figured it out!
     

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